Underfloor heating — worth the investment?

8 years ago

last modified: 6 years ago

Following the recent Houzz guide to underfloor heating, I was wondering: Does anyone have any experience with underfloor heating or know who to hire? It seems like a nice luxury to have in the cooler months when stepping onto the freezing bathroom floor - but I wonder whether the installation/running costs are worth the warmth. Any advice would be appreciated!

Featured Answer

PRO

Belle Homes Design & Construction

8 years ago

Hi Gionne its definitely worth considering if you're renovating. I recommend it to all my bathroom renovation clients. You're right, it used to be a luxury item but technology advances have reduced its complexity and cost, like most things! Reece have it in a roll format and aside from getting your electrician to wire it in (they'll be there anyway during a Reno), it's very very easy to install and use. At around $600 for a 4m2 bathroom it's affordable warmth and luxury underfoot (without the price tag). As a designer I definitely be installing it wherever tiles will be laid (including the shower!) for my next renovation. It's a great product.

Hope that helps. Good luck and have fun.

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (139)

james8896
6 years ago
@envirotecture we are looking at getting a guy in to do some thermal modeling. We have a plan that is at Council stage and we need to look at various things like what difference will it make if we insulate the slab, or don't insulate and get the coolth from the earth. Also thing like how much passive solar gain do we need to make the area warm in winter (on a sunny day). You probably know our architect - Paul Hendy from TS4. But I am quite hands on so I am trying to research what my options are and get advice from where I can. The issue with inslab underfloor heating is of course that it is impossible to retrofit once you have poured the slab - if you want to be able to access the area with a forklift or pallet truck. But on the other hand is the expense necessary, or is it over kill. This is the dilemma. By the way have you seen the Energie product? Could this be a better way to go than evacuated tube or even a heat pump hws?
PRO
Frank Ansell
6 years ago
romeoj: Regarding underfloor heating with aircon on the same heat pump. This is entirely possible, Mitsubishi and Daikin have products available to do this. My company could design and install this for you.

The only issue is cost. You're paying for the underfloor heating system (maybe $10k) plus all the aircon units (maybe another $5k).
If you want a high quality, high spec system and environmental quality is important to you then by all means do it.

But for most people the install cost is the reason they wouldn't do it.
Related Discussions
Warmfloor 24V underfloor heating...does anyone have it?
Q
Comments (20)
As said ... it all depends on the heat loss of your building / room. A passive house (with near-zero heat loss / with actual gain) can be "heated by a candle", and it's actually a problem in such places getting the heat from, say, cooking "out" of it (don't get an Aga if you have a passive house !). On the other end, a drafty 1890's victorian terrace with an EPC E will leak heat so badly - floors, walls, roofs, windows - that no efficient heating system replacement will get it warm. That the old cable-based electric underfloor heating "cooks" your feet is true (my parents "upgraded" their 1980's electric UfH to radiators around 20 years ago ... because of that as well as the running cost). That carbon-film-based electric underfloor heating with its nice and even heat distribution is a much more comfortable "feeling" is also correct. But if your heat loss notably exceeds the ability of of your heating system to introduce heat ... it won't get warm. "Wattage" ... is just a measure of heat loss / gain, Energy-per-time. If you loose heat at a rate of 1kW then you need to introduce heat at that rate to keep the room temperature the same. My advice is: Get a heat loss calculation done first, before you embark on installation of underfloor heating. The manufacturers are usually rather willing to help with that, to make sure what gets installed is suitable for purpose.
...See More
underfloor heating - have you done it?
Q
Comments (8)
We have recently purchased a new build with wet undlerfloor heating throughout, also a bungalow. We have engineered wood floor (floating) through whole house except for ensuite and bathroom which are ceramic tile. It does give a lovely even heat and you have the flexibility to control each room individually. You are correct that it is not super quick to respond because it is heating such a large surface area but this is not something I have found to be a problem at all. It only really gets moved up and down about 3 degress anyway. We have our bedroom very low because we like a cool room and this works well. Our house is 4 bedroom, approx 136 sqm and at the moment our heating and electric is working out at about £70 a month (this is for everything, no gas or anything on top of this) however, we do have airsource heat pump which adds further to efficiency of the heating. Also, if it is useful, the cost for us of the UFH installation was about £5500 but this was in new build and not retrofit. If you have a well insulated house I would go for it! :)
...See More
Underfloor heating for half a room?
Q
Comments (7)
Rinq - Perfect, I think you're right, having the warm floor over a large area will still be really nice. Good idea about checking the calculator for the heating requirements. We're being given some hydraulic plinth heaters, including one on the island, facing towards the living room which will heat both rooms up as well. and we can obviously turn them off if not needed/excessively noisy (although I've purposely chosen mostly the quietest ones) Unfortunately I don't think we've got the funds for the initial outlay of solar panels. Maybe in a few years, But yes, I think we'll have enough heat output for the space but just wondered if it was too "weird" to have only part of a room with UFH. Forzaitalia - I'm sorry to hear your step-daughter's electric UFH stopped working! that must have been so frustrating after the cost of buying it and installation! Did she manage to claim her money back under warranty?
...See More
Insulating garage's concrete floor for electric underfloor heating
Q
Comments (0)
Hello! I have a 12m2 garage with a concrete floor that I would like to insulate and use electrical underfloor heating as it will become a home office. I'm doing it all myself but I’m not sure what is the best procedure and/or order of putting it all together. My first idea was first to repair cracks and holes with mortar, then self level it as the concrete surface is full of tiny waves/grooves, lay a damp proof membrane, lay the 50mm PIR boards on top, then electric underfloor heating mats stick to the PIR boards, self-level again and then a laminated or vinyl floor. The concerns and questions I have or were raised by talking to some people * I may not need to self level the concrete slab to take these waves/grooves imperfections, the PIR boards once layed on top of them and walked on top should absorb these. True? * 50mm PIR boards for a 12m2 garage could be overkill? * PIR board should not be in direct contact with electric underfloor heating, I guess it can be burnt/melted by the wires? It seems I would need to add a separation layer, some suggested some concrete faced insulation boards so the heat from electrical wires would spread more evenly on the surface and not damage the PIR boards underneath * Should I chipboard on top of the PIR boards (which has the wires and self level already in place) as they are weak and could get damaged easily with point pressure even with the self-level on top? * Is chipboard the best option to add a hard layer between the PIR boards and the laminated floor? * I was checking screed, but the requirement seems to be 50mm of screed on top of underfloor heating wires and that with already 50mm PIR board means a fair bit of headroom gone, plus the curing time for screed of several weeks. I was checking liquid screed with faster drying times, but I'm not sure it is worth the costs
...See More
PRO
Deirdre Avenell
6 years ago
There's a pretty comprehensive story about underfloor heating, which talks about the different types, costs, pros and cons: [Everything You Need to Know About Underfloor Heating[(https://www.houzz.com.au/magazine/expert-eye-everything-you-need-to-know-about-underfloor-heating-stsetivw-vs~89772714). This guide might help make the right decision if you're considering this as an option.
deagan4455
6 years ago
Thank you this has been really helpful.
james8896
6 years ago
Unfortunately the link you gave gives very little info on costs and when you go to the Sydney floor heating link it just gives you the cost of electric in slab heating. The info on there is out of date as it is quoting 17.61 cents per kwh. I have just checked what our supplier (AGL) is offering for business customers and it is 47.30 cents per kwh for general supply or 30.80 cents per kwh for (I assume) off peak, using a time of use meter. So it is nearly double the quoted cost for off peak and triple for peak. I would like to know, therefore, what the cost is of using hydronic heating via a Sanden unit or similar is?
james8896
6 years ago
^ If you want to use Green Power then you need to add 5.5c per kwh. All prices are incl GST.
ddarroch
6 years ago
James, look at the spec sheet for the heat pump you're interested in. Look for the COP (coefficient of performance). I'm guessing this will be somewhere between 3 & 5. Making them 300 to 500% efficient, & having running costs which are only 1/3 to 1/5th the cost of running electric underfloor.
twistedstairway
6 years ago
Hi all,

For my new build, I've been quoted for an in floor hydronic gas system. Been told it would be cheaper than what I'm paying today in running costs (gas ducted) and install costs would be cheaper than heat pump (which would be overkill).

What are people's thoughts on gas versus heat pump for hydronic? What should the appropriate install price difference between the gas and heat pump be? And is it easy to change from one to another at some point in the future? BTW - I'm provisioning wiring for solar but not installing panels for due to cost and an expectation technology will get better and costs come down.
PRO
Frank Ansell
6 years ago
James, those are some pricey energy rates! What part of the country are you in?

As already mentioned, a heat pump will have a COP rating from the provider, which explains how efficient it is. So a heat pump with COP 3 provides $3 of heating for every $1 of electricity you put in.

The trouble is, the COP is not fixed - it changes with the temperature the heat pump operates at. So when it's really cold outside and you want your heating on, the COP of your heat pump goes down, meaning that it's more expensive to run.

Better quality heat pumps can maintain their COP at lower temperatures. Check the technical specs provided by the manufacturer. Generally an average heat pump will still have a COP between 2 and 3 under typical operating conditions.

To answer your question, what does it cost to run - the amount of heat you need depends on your house! A smaller house with better insulation won't need as much heat so will be cheaper to heat.

But just a straight comparison, using your 30 cents/kWh (roughly) your heat pump would cost between 10 and 15 cents per kWh to run.

Of course you probably wouldn't only run the heat pump at night, it will run during the day as needed too.

Natural gas would cost more like 6 cents, plus much it's cheaper to install the gas system. So if you can, it's better to go with gas.

If there's no gas available, you might consider a diesel boiler system. At similar install cost to the heat pump, you'll pay about 10 cents per kWh and it still works well in cold weather.

Hope that helps!
PRO
Frank Ansell
6 years ago
Hi Twistedstairway,

The difference in install cost between a gas boiler and heat pump hydronic system would generally be around $5k extra for the heat pump.

It would be possible to change in the future, but depending on how the system is designed and installed it might not be that easy. The heat pump needs to be outdoors, while the boiler doesn't - so they might not work well in the same place.

You also have to consider the water temperature the system is designed to operate at - boilers normally produce hotter water than heat pumps.

So while you could change your boiler to a heat pump in the future, you'll probably find it's more trouble than it's worth. I can design and quote both systems so you can compare if you like, feel free to get in touch.

Gas energy for heating will always be cheaper than energy from solar PV anyway. So if you're thinking of putting in solar, it's probably most cost-effective to use it to offset your electricity and use gas for heating if it's available.
james8896
6 years ago
@ddarroch so if the COP is 3 then the cost of running it is 1/3 or running electric only? (1 kwh in, 3 kwh out)
james8896
6 years ago
@Luxury Home Heating We're going eco all the way so gas or diesel are not options for us, and we are building in the Adelaide Hills so natural gas wouldn't be an option even if we were not going eco. That also tells you that the price quoted online by AGL is for SA. I am going to have a look at what happens if I put in a Sydney postcode but I doubt it will be vastly different. SA prices are high but not double or triple Sydney's! In our case because the heating is needed for comfort levels of people visiting during the day and also to keep our barrels at a nice temperature, we'll probably look at switching the UFH on a couple of hours before everyone arrives and then off after they have left. This means basically "on" at 9 and "off" at 5. Just wondering though how long does the slab take to heat up (if it was on 16 hours before) and also how long does it take to cool down? We're going for high thermal mass and super insulated.
PRO
JWA Electrical
6 years ago
Hi, we have installed lots of them in new homes most of our clients request them. I prefer to install the devi floor heat i think its the best with no problems after installation.

A friend of mine bought a beautiful big home for his family after only 6 months living in the house they got a energy bill for more than $,7000. i had a look at the bill and took a look at the switch board and notice he had floor heating throughout the entire house 500sqm of floor heating. the previous owner install the floor heating back in the early 90s with fuses as circuit protection. i disconnected them and no more big electricity bills.
PRO
Frank Ansell
6 years ago
Hi James,

That's correct, COP 3 means it costs 1/3 the cost of direct electrical heating to run.

For hydronic systems, you normally wouldn't switch them off. Typically you'd switch them on at the beginning of the heating season, around Easter and leave it on until winter is over.

As a general rule a heated slab takes 24-48 hours to heat up from cold.

The trouble with turning them off at night is that the slab cools down too much, and then it takes too long to heat up in the morning and the heat pump has to really work hard to warm up the cold slab. The system is more efficient if it's allowed to just run and maintain a constant temperature.

Much like a car is more efficient is you're driving at a constant speed on a flat road, and less efficient if you're trying to drive up a hill from a standing start.

The whole system is thermostat controlled, so it wont be constantly burning electricity.

I understand the desire to be eco-friendly. If you're looking for low running costs and you're not too concerned about install cost then another option is a geothermal heat pump. Basically the same thing but it has a series of pipe circuits buried in the ground to extract heat, rather than using the air.

High thermal mass and insulation is good, although be careful if the house is warm during the day and people leave doors and windows open after it gets cold you can lose all the heat you trapped really quickly.
PRO
Hunt Heating
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
As Australias largest supplier of hydronic heating, we have been providing Australian homes with stylish, safe and comfortable hydronic heating and cooling solutions. As exclusive stockists of an extensive range of premium products, we ensure that all homes can enjoy the benefits of a low carbon, energy efficient system.

We have just released an industry leading guide on Underfloor Heating, that contains information for both homeowners and installers, I believe the content within would be the perfect for many commenters on this post.

If you're unsure on how to proceed with your project I recommend you
take full advantage of our personalised
consultation service, available for both homeowners and installers. Using the latest design software and coupled with the expertise of our Customer Service
Team, you can rest easy knowing that
we’ll design a bespoke solution that delivers
superior comfort that is also
environmentally friendly and energy efficient.

If you would like a copy please email me on sophieo@huntheat.com.au, alternatively head to our blog to download a copy: Hunt Heating Blog
PRO
Danny Donagh
6 years ago
Man, big discussion! FWIW i think it is great and Aussies should realise we often live in freezing (or boiling) houses because we all think our weather is mild all year round it's not! it has extremes!
Dona Dimaculangan
6 years ago
I would like to give you not just a thumbs-up but also a big cheer for your excellent post! It is very insightful, and you have indeed made me realize the advantage of underfloor heating. Hope to read more of your posts and learn more. Thanks again!
Luke Buckle
6 years ago
Don't forget, you can find an underfloor heating specialist in the Find A Professionals page.
Skye Lanser
6 years ago
@Envirotecture thanks for all of your comments, super helpful! I'm hoping you can provide some advice: I'm looking at installing hydronic underfloor heating into a new polished concrete slab into a very damp, basement-level ground floor of a 100 year old terrace, not just to heat it but also to help keep it dry (or at least dry-feeling).

The size of the slab to be heated is about 80 sqm. I've been quoted for gas, electric and electric heat pump (cheapest about $1200 extra). I have some suppliers asserting that I'm very much better off with gas, and I'm certainly wary of ongoing electricity costs for this size system. I was initially looking to run off solar PV and battery - battery may come later due to costs - but would you recommend this as the route? What size solar array do you think would I need to be net zero on electric? I don't currently have gas to the property, should I be installing separate electric boilers for domestic hot water and going with induction for cooking, or look at gas for these?

I'm feeling very overwhelmed by it all at the moment as I'm getting such different advice from different suppliers. Help!
PRO
Envirotecture
6 years ago
@skyelanser

A few points:

*if the basement is damp you need to fix that issue first.

*definitely avoid gas, it will cost you a fortune in the long run

*definitely avoid in-slab electric heating, it will cost more than gas in the long run

*talk to different suppliers until you find one who understands you and your goals, many of hem just want to do what they did last year.

*without knowing the details of the project (orientation, insulation etc) impossible to say on PV size but as the panels are so cheap now I'd put on as many as can fit on the roof.

*induction for cooking for sure

*hot water should be a heat pump too. Whether it should be integrated with hydronics or not depends on a few factors, if you prospective installer cannot talk you through the pros and cons of the two options then move on to the next one.

*understand your frustration. Is your architect/designer able to guide you?

Hope that helps

Good luck
customheatquotes
6 years ago

Hi there, I`m Steve from Customheat floor heating. I would definitely recommend in-slab or under tile electric floor heating. The main advantage is that you can really control the temperature to ramp up and down effectively at different times of the day to suit your life style, with no water pumps, etc. Since you are thinking of installing solar panels, you won't have to worry about the power bill. If you have a floor plan please email it to me and I`d be happy to create a heating plan for you free of charge. My DIY kits can be installed by you, then the electrician can make the connections. Simple!

Regards,

Steve

call me or text your floor plan to: 0415 112112

email your floor plan to: customheatquotes@gmail.com
robynrauna
6 years ago
These posts have been very informative - thank you - I am going to see if I can install underfloor heating with my bathroom remodel. I have an exisiting concrete floor that I am going to tile over so I am hoping that I can still do this without having to raise the floor. Does anyone know this? Can you still install underfloor heating on an exisiting concrete floor OR does it mean you have to raise it?
PRO
Hunt Heating
6 years ago
Hi Robyn,

We have a new underfloor method called Minitec. The Minitec System installations are designed for renovations or retrofitting of underfloor heating on an existing building. A thin, rigid plastic sheet is placed on top of existing flooring and the pipework is then laid within. After pipework is laid, a self leveling compound is poured on top. The floor level is only raised around 15mm (plus flooring).Ensure your new hydronic underfloor heating system comes together
seamlessly with our complimentary design service, Smart-Calc. Smart-Calc
covers everything from preliminary discussions, conceptual design and
computer-generated heat loss calculations, to a final full colour,
AutoCAD design – at no extra cost to your project.

If you have any further questions please give us a call on 1300 00 1800
customheatquotes
6 years ago
Hi Robyn, This is Steve. For bathroom renovations, generally electric floor heating is the way to go. Especially since bathroom heated areas are only around 2-5 Square metres. My under tile product is only 3.8mm thick and can sit literally in the tile glue. When I`m tiling I generally spread the tile glue using a 8-10mm notch trowel which then compresses to around 4mm in which the floor heating element can sit. Therefor, no extra floor height is created to install this product. Feel free to give me a call if you would like to discuss. Here is one of my installation pics for a bathroom I heated recently. Have a great day!

Regards, Steve 0415112112

Customheat
PRO
Frank Ansell
6 years ago
@Envirotecture, I don't necessarily agree on gas being an expensive option. Most Australian households are paying around 10c per unit of gas, whereas electricity is usually around 30c. Plus the installation cost of gas hydronic systems is much cheaper than electric heat pumps (often $5k - $10k cheaper), so in my experience gas is a cost-effective option.

Heat pumps are usually around 3x cheaper than direct electrical systems to run, so similar running cost to gas (maybe a little cheaper). The barrier is usually the extra cost of installing the heat pump compared to a gas system.

If there's no gas to the property, then it will probably be cheaper to just install a heat pump system rather than pay the extra cost of getting gas connected.

My experience is many installers don't really understand heat pumps which is probably why they recommend gas.

If you're being quoted for a heat pump then the system should definitely include a buffer tank for hydraulic separation. If your supplier doesn't understand what that means when you ask them, then they lack experience and I'd advise talking to someone else.

But as Envirotecture said, if you have issues with a damp basement then you need to find out why the moisture is getting in first!
PRO
Envirotecture
6 years ago
Gas will continue to increase in cost and until you can generate your own gas on site, electricity based systems are inherently more resilient as you can use PV to generate it.

Agree on your installer comments re heat pumps. There have been many issues resulting in poor quality work and system design. There is a large opportunity for a well organised, thinking installation firm.
Catherine Epping
6 years ago
We are also considering underfloor heating - but with the recent weather in Sydney I wonder whether we will actually need it! I've never had wooden floors and we are planning for wooden floors - would they feel that cold if we went without the UFH?
PRO
Frank Ansell
6 years ago
Hi Catherine,

I think it's personal preference! There's always people who feel the cold and other people who wear thongs all through winter.

Hydronic heating systems are designed to heat your whole house, not just the floor. So whether or not you need underfloor heating really depends on the design & location of your house, and what other heating you're planning to install.

I also live in Sydney and while I agree it's unseasonably warm right now (not that I'm complaining!) I'm sure that winter will come back with a vengeance before too long.
Mmm Robinson
6 years ago
I've got the opportunity to using geothermal heat and a heat exchanger to supply the heat for my house. Where can I find info about geothermal heat extraction, are there any experienced installers in the central west NSW, and are there listeners out there who have taken this route? During winter my outside air temp is +/- 5 degC and soil temp at 1m is 9degC.
PRO
Frank Ansell
6 years ago
Hi Mmm Robinson, my company could help with the installation in that area.

You'll find plenty of information about geothermal systems on a Google search. But essentially, it's exactly the same mechanism as a normal electric heat pump but instead of drawing heat out of the air, it draws heat from the ground.

A geothermal heat pump system requires you to install a series of pipe circuits in the ground. You can either drill boreholes to about 100m depth and install the pipes vertically, or dig a trench or pit to 1m depth and install the pipes horizontally. Obviously this depends on how much land you have available.

I recommend steering away from any system using copper pipes in the ground as you will have corrosion issues. We use HDPE (plastic) pipework in the ground.

Then you need a system inside your house to actually deliver the heat. Hydronic underfloor heating is the most popular. Alternatively you can put in a normal air conditioning system using the geothermal system as the outdoor unit.

Because of the cost of the earthworks, geothermal systems are quite expensive to install. But they're very efficient and cost-effective to run.

Happy to answer any other questions.
Mmm Robinson
6 years ago
Hi Lux Home Heat.

Yea, there is info, but not real life Australian experiences.

im interested in COP's, trench depths, pipe lengths, tonnes of water contained in a system, longevity, hybrid heat exchanges, use of well water instead of a closed loop system.

Ive got the space and capability to build a trench/earthworks, but need more info.

do you know what I mean?

Thanks for your reply. I may call later today.

cheers
PRO
Envirotecture
6 years ago
Hi Mmm Robinson

You could just build a very efficient house and eliminate the need for underfloor heating. Check this out

https://passivehouseaustralia.org/what-is-passive-house/
PRO
Frank Ansell
6 years ago
Hi Mmm Robinson,

Great questions. Here are a few rules of thumb to get you started:

For a horizontal loop system you would typically install the pipework at about 1m trench depth. The pipe loops would normally be 200m long, so a 100m long trench. The pipework is spaced 1m apart. We're talking about 25mm diameter pipework for the loops.

You can double the loops back on themselves to fit the excavation into a different area. So if you had 3 loops you could have a pit 100m x 6m, or 50m x 12m.

As a rule of thumb, you'll typically get 3.5kW out of a single 200m loop. I'm not sure what your house looks like but you might work off a heating load of 100W per sqm of floor area.

A big consideration will be soil quality. Very sandy soils or very stony soils aren't good heat conductors so require a different heat exchanger design. You're ideally looking for high bulk density soils with high water content as they conduct heat better.

I recommend closed-loop systems as you'll have fewer problems. Everyone I know who's used a well-water system or similar has had problems. It's too hard to control the water quality so you get issues with corrosion, contaminants, algae growing in your system etc. A closed loop system is dosed with glycol as an anti-freeze which is important for anything in the ground outdoors.

Typical COPs for a ground-source system will be 4-5, which means for every dollar of electricity you spend running the system you'll typically get 4-5 dollars of heating in your home.

The HDPE pipe in the ground will probably last forever but manufacturers will generally give you something like 25 years warranty. The actual heat pump unit will probably have 3-5 year warranty but should be good for 10-20 years. With all mechanical devices, compare them to a car. At 10 years it will still be in good order but might need more regular maintenance. At 20 years old it will probably not be running efficiently and will require more regular servicing, and most likely is due for replacement.

By all means give me a call.

Disclaimer: If anyone builds anything based on these numbers without doing proper calculations first then you're on your own!
hjarman4312
5 years ago
I had underfloor heating in my bathroom ensuite and I left it to the builders to do as part of a larger Reno. Apart from Over paying for the entire Reno, they installed it, the under floor heating, with big heavy tiles on top, and now it doesn’t work. I’d have to rip it up again to find out why it’s not working. It’s been some time now, I should call them back but I just don’t want to see them. I don’t know how long it’s been now but every time I go in there on the cold tiles I deeply resent them, their work, for ripping me off and for this bad job.
PRO
Customheat Floor Heating
5 years ago
Hi there, I’m sorry to hear your under tile heating isn’t working. I’m assuming you have electric underfloor heating? If so, I’m happy to help you trouble shoot. It’s usually more likely a controller problem than a problem with the actual heating in the floor. Your electrician can remove the controller and do a simple resistance test and earth test to determine if the heating Is reading ok. He can also check the temperature probe resistance too, and we can go from there. Feel free to get him to buzz me when he is there and I can walk him through it over the phone. Regards, Steve 0415112112 Customheat
Trish Power
5 years ago
We installed electric floor heating under tiles when we renovated our bathroom, except for the shower area where I don't think it's allowed. It's great - except when you step into the shower you notice the difference. A warm shower soon solves that problem. (Whoever said 'wear slippers' must bathe/shower with them on!) We also installed hydronic heating under a new concrete floor in our living/kitchen area. Wonderful! We live in Sydney where it does happen to get quite cold in winter (minimum 2c tonight). Our builder agreed that it would be a good idea although our architect (based in Tasmania) didn't think we'd need it. The space is bathed in sunshine when the sun is shining but that's not everyday and definitely not at night! The floor heating gives a lovely even warmth, is easy to programme and adjust and well worth the installation and running cost during our relatively short winters. Comfort Heat/Warm Floors supplied our hydronic floor heating. We are very happy - and warm!
PRO
Frank Ansell
5 years ago
Hi Trish, I'm fascinated to hear that your architect didn't think you would need it!

I'm obviously biased since I supply hydronic systems but I'm always amazed when I hear architects telling their clients they don't need underfloor heating here in Sydney. It's a completely different level of comfort to just having reverse-cycle air conditioning.

Great to hear that your builder was familiar with the different heating options though. Can I ask who built your home?
Trish Power
5 years ago
Hi Frank, I agree with you re UFH. We programme the temperature range 24/7 during the winter months and we adjust temp for a few hours as needed. We have been enjoying this warmth since 2012. We did add ducted r/c aircon 2 years ago because a) we are getting older, my husband was unwell so we were spending more time at home, b) it's a big space, and c) to be more comfortable in summer. The builder was Andrew Garden.
pucciplan
5 years ago
We have an 1885 villa which required renovation. We installed electric underfloor heating only in the bathroom (installed as one of the comments explained) over the original boards. It works like a dream, worth the initial outlay and not overly costly to run. This is the second house where the bathrooms benefit from underfloor heating and I would always recommend it. Having it installed by registered practitioners who can guarantee the work is also recommended (unless you really can do it all yourself!) giving room for comeback if something does go wrong.
HU-36661073936
5 years ago
I would recommend you look into the hydronic form of underfloor heating. We have electric underfloor under our tiles in our kitchen and dining area. It's beautiful heat but cost us an extra $400 per month to run. We never turn it on now.
Mmm Robinson
5 years ago
Thanks for that info. Helps paint a pictur3. Roughly how many sq meters are heated in this space?

thanks.
PRO
Frank Ansell
5 years ago
Hi guys,

Those are great examples of where to use electric and where to use hydronic floor heating.

Electric floor heating works well for bathrooms where you only use it for short periods - most people only use their bathrooms for 15 minutes at a time or so. Electric floor heating is easy to retrofit and for a bathroom the floor area is usually small, maybe 2-4sqm.

Hydronic floor heating is much more cost-effective for living areas or kitchens where you're likely to be using it for hours at a time. More expensive to install but much cheaper to run!
Matt Gibson
5 years ago
In our build we got electric underfloor heating installed in our main bathroom and open plan living/dining area. We have a 10kW solar system on the roof and found it works really well at taking the cold sting out of the floor in the mornings (don't try to heat your house with it lol). When we got our first Tesla 2 battery and the associated app we were in for a shock (no pun intended). Ours is a rather large house as you can see in the photo, so take that into account when reading the following.

Because the app shows power usage in real time we were able to turn on different things and watch how power usage changed. Long story short we found the underfloor heating spiked the power usage so high that it was equal to having both our ovens, dishwasher, induction cooktop, washing machine and dryer on at the same time! To put it another way we could drain our fully charged Tesla 2 (13.5kW) in a little under 2 hours with the underfloor heating turned on and set to 20 degrees. The underfloor system has been tested and there is no power leakage or other problems, it's working as it should - it simply uses that much power. In all honesty if I was to install it again I'd spend a bit more upfront and break up the open plan area into 4 or 5 different zones running off different thermostats.

Does electric underfloor heating work? Absolutely - it's great for stopping that cold foot shock on tiled floors, works really well and with a good thermostat you can set an operating schedule for a week at a time. If you decide to go down the path of installing electric underfloor heating you'll be choosing a product that works, but is VERY power intensive. We use it very rarely now and will probably stay that way until we finish our plan and get another 2 Teslas and extra 5kW on the roof. Another thing to keep in mind there though is when you are most likely to need to use underfloor heating, which is the cold of winter. What time of year is solar energy least productive in your house? The same period that you need to use the heating - winter lol.

I don't know any of the professionals posting in this thread and to be honest I rarely read Pro posts in threads like these for the simple reason they are businesses and therefore want you to buy their products/services. There's no problem at all in that but it's something to remember when you read their comments - think of what service or product they are selling and think about their comment with those factors in mind :).
fleurphelan
3 years ago
Best comment! Factual! Exactly what I needed. How much have u all paid for your electric underfloor heating in your bathroom?
In your living area ? Sqm?
I have been quoted $1k for each bathroom (6m2)and $3k for living area (56m2)
Is that reasonable?
Matt Gibson
3 years ago
If those prices don't include the electrician's costs of connection then to me they don't match up and I'd say your supplier/installer can't do maths lol. Pricing will change between supplier and of course electricians, and of course I'm working off the impression that the floors are flat where you want it installed.

If the quote includes the electrical work, as in it covers everything besides tiling to where you can switch it on, then it looks reasonable to me and sits around the ballpark of what we paid. With the electrician's connection costs included then the figures match up better between the bathrooms and the living area, looking at it from a total per m2 viewpoint. If it includes the floor covering as well, then I'd say get on the phone and book the job straight away before they realise their mistake lmao.

For instance if the quote is just for material and install, without electrical connection then the two bathrooms are quoted at $166.66 per m2 and the living area is quoted at $53.57 per m2. A large difference at cost per m2. If however the quotes include the electrical connection then you can average out the m2 cost across all three rooms and it amounts to $73.53 per m2.

The electrician would be charging the same price for connection of each room (with only minor differences) if there is nothing out of the ordinary in any room. That means it's a static cost in each room that could make the bathroom quotes look inflated, and the living room look on the cheaper side. When you have a m2 quote on something across multiple rooms of different sizes, it's important to factor in anything outside of materials that's included in the quote. Assuming the install could be considered standard (whether it be underfloor heating, tiling, carpet, etc.) there will be other costs involved such as labour hours, wiring connection, installation materials, etc. Some can be considered static such as the electrician installing a single thermostat in each room, whatever actual size that room may be. Others will be more fluid such as labour hours for the tradesmen doing the install - will take a lot longer to lay tiles in a room of 56m2 than it will to lay them in a room 6m2.

Whenever you are given a quote involving installations by m2, it's important to get them to detail what exactly is included in the quote. If you don't do this you run the chance of ripping yourself off. Let's say you get 3 different quotes from underfloor heating suppliers who all give you different prices but without details. One may look more expensive than the other two but actually be cheaper overall due to including everything up to 'turn on' phase, where the other two may only include supplying and laying the underfloor heating with you having to organise your own electrician after install.
fleurphelan
3 years ago
Make sense thanks. That’s for 1 bathroom
Supply and installation of 3.31m2 of Livella under floor heating cable in Bathroom. Supply only of Livella programmable touch screen thermostat.
2.83amps
Holly Clamp
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
We have just installed a Uponor Minitec Hydronic Underfloor System as we are renovating. We decided to go with a heat pump despite the extra $8k cost over gas as we want to install solar and a battery to cut out electricity bills completely. It was a huge decision as the cost of the system was 1/3 of our entire Reno budget. What we didn’t budget for was the cost of the self levelling screed that needs to be poured over the Minitec system - very very expensive but we had already committed and thankfully managed to shop around and get a good deal on Mapei floor leveller. The total cost was about $32k for a 170sqm house and this was a good deal as most other installers were a lot more expensive. We poured the screed ourselves to save money. No regrets though as the heat is lovely. Now we’ll get the solar and battery organised.
Julie H
3 years ago
well done sounds like you are happy with it. Yes the initial cost was expensive for us as well as we had a bigger house! The screed layer of cement on top is extra. We had our system installed by Adelaide heating solutions in MacLaren vale south Australia. These guys were from the uk so very knowledgeable about UFH systems.
Elham Mohammadi
10 months ago
Hi there,
Any suggestions for a hydronic underfloor heating company in Perth?
PRO
Customheat Floor Heating
10 months ago
Hi Elham, would you consider electric floor heating instead? What size roughly are you looking to heat in square metres? Electric floor heating can be very economical to run these days with smart controllers and solar energy. Regards, Steve from Custom Heat Floor Heating ph: 0415112112

Underfloor heating — worth the investment?

Comments (139)

Related Discussions

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US