thecapps45

REMODEL 1980's HOUSE EXTERIOR MORE CONTEMPORARY

Henry Cappie
8 years ago

We wanted to revitilise our house exterior with a more contemporary feel whilst slightly enlarging our hallway, but more importantly providing more daylight to the Hall Stairs and Landing.

Came up with the design using green oak frame but planed and oiled with large panes of glass and contemporary composite doors in grey with sidelights.

Unfortunately the Planners did not like it and have refused permission because it does not fit well with the surrounding Townscape and it is too large using the wrong materials.

Struggling to come up with a fresh idea which might be acceptable. Any ideas gratefully received




Comments (15)

  • Henry Cappie
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Hi Black Oak

    Thanks for your comments. Yes the window above the garage is a bedroom and would benefit from either a balcony or 'conservatory' style extension to make the bedroom larger.

    Houses either side were part of 6 plots sold off by the council and we had quite tight design guidelines for planning back in '82. These were Red brick, brown roof tiles, brown windows, small casement sizes, black rainwater goods.

    Some of the owners have now changed these details and installed white windows and rw goods.

    Opposite is a mixture of Chalet and dormer roof bungalows, all built pre '82 as an estate, and are predominately, LBC dapplelight brick with white widows, boarding etc.

    All of Herefordshire, we are in the city outskirts, has quite boring housing stock with very little external frontal improvements, which is where the problem lies. Unlike areas such as Bournemouth, Poole, Sandbanks and Canford Cliffs which we toured extensively and has flipping good architectural upgrades sitting amongst standard stock and this area of remodeled houses got our enthusiasm to do something with our house before we push up the daisy's.

    I have attached photos either side and opposite for your viewing.

    Thanks for your comments.

    Photos as follows from top down. Top - Houses Opposite. Houses to right. Ours and to the left our neighbours end elevation. Bottom- our neighbours front elevation which is on a side road.






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  • PRO
    User
    8 years ago

    Hi Henry,

    Thank you for all the extra information, photos and contributions to the ideabook. It is my pleasure to chip in here.

    I thought you might like the idea with balcony or conservatory type of space above the garage. I would go with a conservatory type, fully glazed and combined with the entrance to really give the house that contemporary look. It will also boost the daylight you want into the hallway from the bedroom via internal glazing. Not to mention that you will get extra space in the bedroom.

    I'll be honest with you, I'm really stuck here. Your design is great, it's a damn good idea and I don't really want to change what you've created, it's good! Add a conservatory above the garage and you will have an awesome looking property with tons of daylight.

    Personally, rather than trying to come up with a design that will eventually please the planners I would go and talk to them directly. Firstly, as you said those properties have been build in the early '80 and many before that. If anything, you will be doing the council a favour by starting to bring the area up to date by giving it a much needed facelift. Secondly, I would point out, that despite the fact that all properties look-alike, they are different designs, roofs, windows, colour schemes etc. It's not all identical. Thirdly, you want to put insulation in your home during works. This is really worth mentioning, as it is an upgrade that goes with government scheme of reducing carbon footprint. Finally, point out on an example of your tours that other councils have been actively diversifying stock housing and participating in landscape change. It will happen sooner or later and they should not be obstructing it and getting behind the rest of the UK. I know I'm stretching it here, but it really is worth a shot. I worked for Islington council in London for quite a few years and nudging them ever so slightly is not a bad idea. You said that the reason for refusal was that it will be so different from the rest, too large and materials that you have chosen. Discuss this with them. At least they should give you pointers in which direction you should change your design so it gets approved and not just a refusal with list of obstacles. They have to cooperate to a certain extend and it usually helps a lot when they realise you are not going to just drop it.

    I really hope you are not going to 'push up the daisy's' as you said before you have a fair share of enjoyment from your project (and I mean actually using the space and not just building it)! I will check planning regulations just to see if there is a way around the planning refusal. In the meantime we should collaborate on the ideabook and I'm pretty sure we will come up with something that will eventually pass without massive changes to the original design. It might be easier if you email me.


    Henry Cappie thanked User
  • PRO
    User
    8 years ago

    How would you feel about this - flatten the roof above the garage and the entrance porch. Turn that space into a balcony with glazed railings. This can also have glass panels in the floor above the porch, so more light will get in. Change the small church like window to as large as possible panel that will pump more daylight into the hallway and highlight the contemporary style. Then, replace bedroom windows with top to bottom sliding glass doors that will give you access to the balcony itself.

    This will check the tick boxes on two out of three things you would like and it also removes the 'too large' reason for planners to turn you down. You will get:

    1. More daylight in the hallway

    2. Contemporary styling

    Bedroom size however would not increase. It is also opened to planning refusal for two possible reasons - overlooking neighbours [which it doesn't] and style not matching current design (and this is a tough one to get around).

    Henry Cappie thanked User
  • Henry Cappie
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Hi Black Oak,

    Just got back from pushing up the daisies ( Seniors Golf ) to find your messages / images. I really want to thank you for your time and I am truly thankful.

    Some of those images are similar to houses that we have seen, especially Cambuild - Wall, Gates and fencing is similar to our outside wall with cedar linear fencing ( not approved but not mentioned in the refusal ) and the Christopher Simmonds Arch building which is aluminum.

    I have also been sketching up some fresh ideas, keeping it on the vertical theme, one using a high level flat roof with the structure clad in Cedar and another again flat roof with glazed sloping panel above and rendered.

    From these structures we could extend the bedroom over the garage with the existing roof continuing to slope down to the garage level then install a modern dormer/gable ended roof over.

    Have taken on board your thoughts about talking to the planners and was always going to end up paying the £96 consultation fee and going to discuss the project with them, but I have been so clouded by the strong definition of the Refusal that I did not want to go there without any fresh ideas of my own and be forced to go down the route of what the Planner has in mind. It appears, talking to a couple of people, that this young lady is new to the office, so no one has any info on her thoughts, likes and dislikes within the Planning Remit.

    I also totally agree with your statement that they should give me pointers in which direction the design should change so it gets approved and not just a refusal with list
    of obstacles.

    My thoughts are that if I arrive with a selection of ideas, different to the original, some more modern than the original perhaps the original won't seem too bad!!!

    I trust that there can be a certain amount of cooperation to a certain extent and when I was in business I was know as a little terrier because I just would not give up and wore a lot of people down to get my own way.

    Trouble is I have retired and I am a bit softer now!!!

    Thanks once again for your input


  • PRO
    User
    8 years ago

    Mr.Cappie, it is my pleasure and I really find it very enjoyable collaborating with you.

    Comparison of Senior Golf to pushing up the daisy's made me smile. I know it's not a laughing matter, but I'm sure it's not that bad ;)

    I thought I would put some images there for you to get your creative juices flowing. Possibilities are literally limitless here and I'm really glad you found them useful. If you could pick your favourite one that might give me a better idea of your taste. If you have the time and will you could also show me the fence you'd like to have.

    I would love to see your new sketches. You really got me curious, so please post them here or just e-mail over once they're ready.

    £96 consultation fee...this really gets me. It's not value for money, but I guess there is no other way :/ I'm glad you feel motivated to keep on pushing and that your inner 'terrier' has woken up ;) You see, my personal view is that Planning should be helping people with their projects and recognise that their personal liking has nothing to do with it, not to mention that encouraging senior citizens to participate in landscape change should be a priority and all fees if not waved should be at least drastically reduced. Sadly this is very often not the case. Saying that, I would still encourage you to take it up with them. Not the planning officer of course, but the head of their department. I'm not sure how your council is structured, but I remember that in Islington there used to be a community liaison officer and they might be a very good route to take in both cases, shall you have no joy with planners and with reducing their fees.

    I can only admire your 'business intelligence' skills here for doing all the research on the planner herself. I think your approach is very good, meet with them and have ready several counter proposals, so they can't just knock you back so easily. I would also minute the meeting, as a formal record to which you can always refer to if needed, just don't forget to e-mail it over to them after the meeting.

    If you show them some really radical projects perhaps the original will not seem so bad, but we are speculating here. I truly hope, that once you meet with the planner personally and she sees that you are in fact an architect, you know what you are doing and that this is sort of a dream of yours, you might just connect with her and get off to a sailing start after the initial bump. I'm sure you have tons more experience here than I do and you will manage that meeting just like back in the day, wear her down and get your project approved ;)

    Just in case, I have came up with a slightly cheeky idea on how to manoeuvre the grounds of style not matching current design. It is surely a more troublesome route, but I think it might be a viable option if all else fails. You could apply for permission to do small changes at a time that will start bringing out the contemporary style in your property i.e. enlarge the church type window, replace bedroom windows with floor to ceiling glazed panel etc. Very tedious, I know, but it's a worst case scenario option.

    I have also checked planning regulations last night and there is no scope to get around it. You will have to have planning approval for this sort of work. Just for your reference, here is a link to the official government portal (extensions section) http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/commonprojects/extensions/

    Please keep me posted on how the meeting went.

    Henry Cappie thanked User
  • Henry Cappie
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Good Evening Black Oak,

    My name is actually Brian and I am also enjoying this experience as it is just like being back at work.

    Thanks for new ideas and especially the link which I have printed off.

    Noticed immediately it referred to 'Principle Elevation' facing the road and immediately thought which is it - the line of the garage or the main structure - so typed it into google and have found an interesting site called Knowledge Hub which includes a Planning Advisory Service Portal with Planning Officers as Administrators giving advice!!!

    Have just registered and now await confirmation of membership and will post question of proposal with them. Will be interesting to see their answers and advice.

    Will continue reading through 'Extensions' to gain further knowledge and bring myself more up to date.

    Have attached drawing of wall, fence and gates with large (300mm) stainless steel numerals set onto a 12mm curved


    perspex backing, set off the wall with solar powered led lighting for effect. Not electric gates..... as the wife is still quite fit!!!!
    The linear fence then returns back to the line of the house, which can be seen from the side road footpath by our neighbours so it keeps the design complete.

    Fence panels are Western Red Cedar 70 laths x 10 with 10mm spaces, boarded alternate so you cant see through but wind can get through. The gates are the same but with 125mm border set onto steel frame (dont move warp or bend) and behind the 10mm gaps will be stainless strips to give it a highlight.

    Sorry about the double plan, put one on and thought it could have been bigger so edited it but it came out the same then I cant delete them!!



  • PRO
    User
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    It is a pleasure to be more officially acquainted Brian, I'm Dom. It's very nice to meet you.

    Yes, I would imagine it must be a bit like that for you and I'm well pleased you are finding it enjoyable. That's what it's all about!;)

    I will check out Knowledge Hub myself, as it sounds very promising, especially that real planning officers are the administrators who answer questions! This might be a really good insight. I hope they will give you some tips on how to get your project through planning and in case you encounter 'resistance' how to move pass it.

    I really like your drawings! The whole idea is starting to get more colours now. The fence you have in mind will be truly something and it will surely transform the whole surroundings on it's own! Very classy! House numerals in 300mm size, made of stainless steel and with subtle backlight should really stand out nicely. When you say curved perspex, I must ask why curved? I think that a blunt, sharp, straight square backing for the numerals would highlight the style better.

    On the topic of gates - We must behave, so I will only say, that I'm glad to hear that missis is still in good shape. Please give my regards to her. I will however, strongly encourage you to consider electric gates. It is by far the most convenient way to operate it. I also think that remotely controlled electric gate would only add to the splendour and will future proof the whole idea (by my count you should be in early '70 now and I would like you to enjoy it in the next 20 years or more).

    Cedar fence panels will definitely work, but do you really mean 70 laths per panel at 10mm each? Alternate boarding works very well. We have done one like this, but vertical, not horizontal and laths were H:70mm x W:12mm. Looking at the plan the total fence height will be 160cm, which I would personally up to at least 180cm and ideally to 200cm to ensure enough privacy and that taller people can't just snoop around your front yard.

    I like the gate design and I think it will just work. One perhaps radical thought here, which I'm sure will set planners on fire, but I think would look absolutely fantastic is having the rendered fence in white, with dark grey slate caps as you wanted and panel's laths in something like the Estate grey colour by Farrow&Ball. Not sure how you'll feel about it, but this will definitely be a very modern looking fence. PS. I just adore that curve around the gate.

    It might also be prudent to think about CCTV around the gate area.

    What about the entrance gate for pedestrians or would all traffic come through the main gate? Incorporating an entrance gate onto the main gate might be a nifty thing. Also I think that a concealed letter box (stainless steel slot only) could go on to the curve or above the numerals. You could have a small gate on the curve to allow access to the bins, which would sit nicely and out of main view in a small shed within the curve (from the inside).

    Brian, this is starting to look like a very modern and quite glamorous property and I'm really starting to get the feel of it! I don't want to jump the gun here, but with the amends you are planning to make, I believe it will give quite a hike in value to your property and you just might start a revolution in your neighbourhood! I must ask, is the interior also contemporary or is it something you are thinking about doing to match the exterior? The reason for this question is that we could collaborate on elements that could transition the external feel of the property to the inside, which will bring a lot of unity and balance.

    Henry Cappie thanked User
  • Henry Cappie
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Hi Dom

    Thanks for your comments again. Your being very flattering.

    Answers. Curved Plastic to match the curve of the wall as the numerals are set on the curve not the flat. But when built ( if approved) if I can use a flat backing with perspex spacers that look on the curve then this is good.

    I'm 65 (66 June) playing off 19 trying to get down to 16 this year. Go to gym,swim and have an allotment so hope to get to 80 active.

    Have got in mind a letter box on the curve but have not researched yet.

    Bins are round the back of the house. would like to leave wall as clean lines as possible.

    Fencing is 70mm x 10 thick with spaces between them of 10mm.

    Have thought about painting in shades of grey, because the doors are composite in dark grey, but missus is not convinced at the moment.

    Electrics to gates..... will reconsider if we get planning but we won't get back our expenditure on present costings

    Unfortunately house prices in Hereford are good but stable for a particular area and have a ceiling price. Our house price currently would be in the region of £340k (2000sqft) and would only rise by 25k with improvements.

    Interior wise its all done, whilst I had the business we revamped the lot over the last 8 years and its all of a contemporary style, not high end ultra modern but simple contemporary style.

    The Atrium was going to be a new focal point entrance both outside and in because we had to loose a galleried staircase when we built an en-suite bathroom.

    We fitted an oak staircase into the remodelled hallway and when the atrium was completed we would have had oak beams on show with all that glass and an oak floor. The hallway would have been in the order of 7mtrs x 3mtrs with that front part double height.

    So we have got the interior and just need the exterior.

    and oh by the way the rear garden is being transformed as part of this modernisation scheme. We have a patio area of 60sqmtrs over which we are laying 600x400 porcelain tiles in a creamy grey shade. We then have got two steps 4.8mtrs wide, using 260 x 125 Cedar sleepers to the lawn and then a low wall 300 high will have the same cedar laths as the fence panels all topped off with some stainless steel low light posts.

    1650 is the height of the current hedge and we trimmed it down to this from over 4 mtrs and it feels nice. Hereford is very different to London so at present CCTV is a bit over the top in this area. and we like a bit of interaction with people passing by so most probably the gates will be more open than closed.

    I have to say you have picked up on my concept so well - its a pity the planners haven't got the foresight.


  • PRO
    User
    8 years ago

    Brian, I say it, as I see it, perhaps in a nice way, but this is not flattery ;) I really like your idea and I think that your project can really be a start of a revolution in style in your area. Maybe revolution is a strong word, but looking at the pictures you've provided of houses in the area, your idea is at least innovative and would bring something new and fresh to the community, which I think would benefit from it.

    Yes, you are quite right, I am looking at your project from London perspective and that includes things like CCTV and property prices, so my bad here. I could have checked that, but money and values are of secondary priority here. I treat this as great concept, something I enjoy. I tend to do this every time, get the design to absolute perfection and then figure out how to deliver it on a set budget. From experience I know that a lot can be achieved when compromises are made. Besides, on this occasion I have you and I have a feeling you know how to plan things and most importantly you have a vision of what you want.

    I wasn't that far off then ;) Apologies for adding a couple of years to your calendar. You have a good plan and by the sound of it all figured out too. I hope it will all work out as you 'drafted' ;) Ok, let's get back to it.

    Numerals - what if you had no curved plexi behind it? Just the numbers set on little rods, so they don't touch the wall and an underglow to it? The risk with perspex mounted on to the wall is that water will sip in behind it and discolour the render. Also after a while you are very likely to get some mossy residue. Just thinking long term here.

    Thanks for the clarification on the fencing, that makes total sense now. I will drop in to the ideabook some examples of grey that I have in mind. Perhaps that will convince the missis to give it a green light.

    I know that it all costs, but do consider electrics for the gate and even if the budget won't allow for it initially, you can at a minimal expense make preparations for later i.e. runners, electrics etc. so when you are ready it will be an easy and straight forward fit.

    I know that letter box is probably the least of your worries at this stage, but it's good to plan to the tiniest detail. Makes life easier later on.

    I wasn't sure where the bins were and thinking in London terms I thought they would naturally be at the front ;)

    I'm sure that house prices will soon pick up in Hereford too. Seems to be a trend everywhere over the years with London leading the way in a sometimes ridiculous way.

    I see your idea now. Yes. I'm saying that with just a surface feel of the interior, but I love oak and it works very well in modern designs, especially combined with glass. I even have a company in mind that does structural oak work and it is spectacular. Have a look at their website http://www.oakmasters.co.uk maybe you'll get some ideas from there too.

    That is some entry hall! With 21m square, double height, oak beams with glass letting all the daylight in. I see why you really want it ;) I actually sat back for a good few minutes imagining how all that would look. I will say this (not flattery by any means) - kudos ;) Don't let go of this idea, make it happen.

    Funny you mentioned the rear garden. Just today I have stumbled on a photo of one, which I thought you might like and that would work with the whole contemporary transformation of the outside. Naturally, you would replace the paving stones with your tiles.

    What do you think of it? Also, how to you feel about lights being mounted in the ground rather than lamp posts? This would give you a modern contemporary feel with certain features in the garden being illuminated from below. For example you could have some greenery planted around such light, which in turn would give them a very nice warm glow in the evening/night. One last thing on the garden, how do you feel about barbecue or an open pit? This could be a focal point of the garden.

    As to the height of the fence, this is just my personal preference, so as we are sharing ideas here I thought it will be worth mentioning. It's so refreshing to hear that you want to have your gate opened most of the time. I really appreciate the perspective you are giving me on certain things.

    4 metres tall hedges?! That is well high! I'm surprised nobody picked on that ;)

    I think we have covered quite a lot and looking at all of our conversation we have discussed so many aspects. Thank you for the recognition, perhaps I should get a job as a planner or in politics ;) It is a pleasure to collaborate with you and I can't wait to see your new plans for the entrance with bedroom enlargement.

  • PRO
    User
    7 years ago

    Hi Brian, hope you had a nice Easter break! I was wondering if you've made any more drawings or gave some more thoughts to your project?

    Henry Cappie thanked User
  • Henry Cappie
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Hi Dom,

    Yes thanks, hope you had a break away from work also. Looked at your profile and saw some of your work, very impressive. Could not link into your website though. Says that the server was unsecure?? Look into it as it may stop clients getting in.

    Back to the project. Was waiting for a Planning Guy that I had engaged to assist to come back to me when I had an unexpected telephone call from the planning lady. Seems that I had complicated things by formally re-applying for the wall and gates but with a covering letter to say that I needed advice on how to also reapply for the house free within the reapplication proviso. Had a convivial chat and she suggested that she would like to resolve the design by having a meeting on site. I said that I was also trying to alleviate her design problems by redrawing the scheme in several formats as a starting point for any discussion. So I am currently on variation no 6 and awaiting her phone call. Oh yes I had to go and pay £97 for the privilege of this site discussion. My eldest is at home with his family this weekend as its his birthday, so I'm stopped from drawing until tuesday. Send me your email address and I will send you the schemes when completed. The only good news is that she reluctantly said that she would not object to the wall, but not to start until permission is granted otherwise would have to change application to retrospective and that would complicate things.

    So I am pretty optimistic at the moment....Have just got to get the approval of the schemes past the client ( the wife ) first...more difficult than any planner!!!!

    Regards


    Brian

  • PRO
    User
    7 years ago

    Hi Brian,

    Yes, I did, thanks! It was a much needed break.

    Thank you, that's very kind of you! We did work hard to get there and it is very nice to hear it's impressive.

    Thanks for letting me know! That is very disturbing! I have just tried out our website and it worked fine for me. Could you tell me what exact error message did you get and what browser do you use? I will look into it ASAP.

    That sounds like good news to be honest. Shame you had to pay the extra fee, but at least you will get to meet with her on site and work things out. Hopefully, she will also appreciate what you're trying to do and with small amends will give you the go ahead! If she is agreeing to the wall, I think you are half way there and she will let you do the changes to the house too. Otherwise, you will end up with a modern fencing that doesn't quite work that well with current design, so no other option, but to let you amend the look of your property right?;) Fingers crossed!

    Sound like you've been quite busy, 6 new drawings and a birthday bash! I'm really eager to see what you'e come up with. You can email me directly at office@blackoakbuilders.co.uk

    Looking forward to seeing the drawings!

    Haha, in this case the go ahead from the client might be the most difficult part, but I'm sure she will eventually succumb to the idea and sign it off ;)


    Kind Regards

    Dom

  • PRO
    User
    7 years ago

    Hi Brian,

    Thank you so much for pointing out the problem with our website. Our encryption certificate got mixed up on the issuer side and resulted in the error you've experienced. Now all is back in order and we serve secured online content. All this prompted website redesign :)

  • Jennie Dobbs
    3 years ago

    Hi we are looking

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