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Design Dilemma
mike_j8

Suggestions for rough layout of a kitchen in the middle of a house

Mike F
7 years ago

Hello,

We are having a rear extension added to our semi-detached house. Initially we thought to move the kitchen to the newly build part at the back, but are now considering having the kitchen in the middle of the house in what is the old dining room. This is attractive as it will give us seperate living/tv/reading areas in the front lounge and the new rear.

I was toying with different layouts with rudimentary 'blue boxes' to represent kitchen units - see pictures below. The issue is complicated by fact that there is a chimney breast in the room that we would have to either work around, offset our cabinets from, or go through the expense of having removed.

I'm worried that working around the chimney breast (and another odd structural line) will take away too much cumpboard space and limit the sort of appliances we can have. (We want a 90cm wide oven/hob).

Grateful for any advice or suggestions that you think would work.

The small room immediately above the blue box (kitchen) area is going to be a utility room, so there will be additional storage for food supplies in there.

Thanks

Featured Answer
  • PRO
    OnePlan
    7 years ago
    Hi - had a play with your layout ... Thought this might work ?!
    Food for thought anyway ?!
    Kind regards
    Karen
    OnePlan
    Freelance concept planner

    [marketing note : this is an example of our sketch consult service, that we would normally charge £35 per hour for. We have happily supplied this free of charge for this Houzzer in this instance. ]

    Comments (24)

    • PRO
      User
      7 years ago

      You mentiion that the utility area is above the blue box area, do you mean on another floor? If so, why is the study area not being incorporated into the kitchen area to boost the floor space available, give you a pantry / utility room / area, and the study upstairs. Seems odd? I couldn't blow the plan up sufficiently to see the dimensions in the kitchen or study if there are any. If you're going to the trouble of having an extension, then i'd look into how much it would cost to have the Chimney stack removed and Gallows brackets put it, by the same builder. I'm assuming he'd be more likely to do it as a reduced cost as he is already doing the extension. This would obviously give you the most scope.

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      Hi sorry can’t do 3 d modelling. So think about the flow first. Just now if you want to put a pint of milk in the fridge you come through the door past the table and all way round the island. So it’s a bit of a trip. Next what is important to you about the island? The look ? A place to demonstrate cooking skills or somewhere for friends to gather? That will determine what you want on your island/ peninsula. I wonder if you don’t turn things around a little. So the wall you have the island sticking out run low level units and a sink. Gives worktop space and hides dishes from the dinning table guests. Then run as planned the full height units but stop short of full wall leave room for a peninsula coming out in parallel to the window/ patio . On that put the hob and enough room for guests to sit. So effectively you would have A u shape with the golden triangle with sink hob and fridge. It still gives you full wall units you like, hides dishes/sink and gives you more worktop. I can draw it if you like. Just a thought
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    • Jonathan
      7 years ago
      In my opinion you get the Chimney breast out - the likely cost will be £1500.
      I like Oneplans suggested layout because on your plan the access to the largest room in the house is a bit windy and I think it is better to be able to see from the front door to the garden.
    • Mike F
      Original Author
      7 years ago

      Thanks for the suggestions - always good to get these other views as we've been through a range of designs ourselves already.

      Oneplan / Jonathan: Thanks for suggestion. I'm a bit undecided about having a line of sight from the front door to the garden. Aesthetically it makes sense, but our family set-up means that we are looking for a bit of living separation downstairs so that people can be watching TV, listening to music, doing some study - without getting on top of each other too much. Also the wall that separates what is labeled as study, and the 'new kitchen' (with blue boxes) is a load bearing wall so would require an additional joist which will add to cost. The 'study' in the narrow room is only 1.2m wide as currently drawn, so I think that is just too small, especially with the laundry in the back. Having said that, the idea of a hidden laundry is quite appealing, so an option would be to make that room a bit bigger (as it is a new wall anyway).

      Man about the house: Sorry, I wasn't very clear looking back. I meant to say that the slim narrow room (where oneplan) has put the study, was intended to be a utility room/pantry. The dimensions of the study are 2m x 3.2m. The Kitchen, without removing the chimney breast is 2.9m wide. The length is variable in practice as it will be new walls either way.

      Instinctively, it seems like taking the chimney breast out is the sensible thing to do. But because the space for the kitchen in the middle of the house isn't massive, I'm still wondering whether the design's initial proposal for the kitchen at the back of the house is preferable.

      In that format, there is less logic in having the utility room/pantry in that narrow room in the middle of the house. We'd previously thought of splitting the room labeled "study" (which is in reality right now is our kitchen) into two - half being a study, the other half being a utility room access from the kitchen as per pic below:


    • PRO
      OnePlan
      7 years ago
      Hi Mike ...
      Totally understand your reasons - I only did a blind sketch not knowing your circumstances - just wanted to get easy access to new living area with out interrupting cooking and get maximum possible daylight in that middle section. My sketch might work for other people - but if it doesn't suit you, and the way you want to use the space - it's better to work to something that does suit !
      Happy houzzing !! ;-)
    • Mike F
      Original Author
      7 years ago
      last modified: 7 years ago

      After thinking some more, I am more convinced that we need to take out the chimney stack. Before confirming and locking the layout for more detailed drawings, I'd been considering what the layout might be.

      Taking out the chimney stack still leaves a 13cm pillar which for structural reasons we can't remove. This means either losing a 13cm section from the rear of a cabinet (which is no problem). The trouble is that we want a 90cm oven/hob and there isn't an easy position for it that doesn't overlap with the pillar. I'm therefore tempted to have all of the cupboards on that wall set 13cm away from the wall.

      I'm not quite sure where the full height fridge freezer should go. The until closest to the kitchen door seems most sensible.

      Grateful for any comments on picture below (red blocks are oven, fridge and sink) or ideas for alternative layouts. Keen to keep an island, but open to other ideas. The room is 346 wide, which could be made up of:

      13cm - Pillar in wall

      60cm - Kitchen units

      92cm - Gap between oven and sink.

      90cm - Island (although might make this a bit narrower to give more space.)

      92cm - Gap betwene island and wall.

      Thanks.

      I realise I'm not a kitchen designer and realise a final design will come later, but I just need to satisfy myself that the space will be sufficient and workable.

    • Mike F
      Original Author
      7 years ago

      One more thought is to make the study smaller and add a little enclave for a 90cm firdge/freezer. That seems to to nicely deal with the problem of where to put the fridge. It destroys the notion of a triangle between cooker/sink/fridge, but I think I can live with that.

      My bigger concern is the odd alcove that is left in the open plan area. It would seem well suited for a desk, but we already have the study...

      Instinctively it seems wrong to build an odd shaped room and I'm at a bit of loss as to what the remainder of the layout should be if we did so. We need to get a dining area and lounge area in.

      Any ideas welcome - thanks.

    • PRO
      OnePlan
      7 years ago
      This perhaps ?
    • PRO
      OnePlan
      7 years ago
      With an internal window too - to allow more natural light into kitchen area ?!
    • PRO
      Oasys Property Solutions
      7 years ago

      In plan, the position of the fridge freezer in that location does work. However, I think in practice it will become a frustration since it will hinder access to the spaces beyond when someone os opening the fridge or freezer. Could it instead be situated at the end of the run of units?

    • bookworm987
      7 years ago

      Hi Mike, just wondering if this could work for you. The lounge/ dining area is very generous so I'd try moving the kitchen down a bit and flipping the Lshape. I've relocated the sink to the peninsula- this might seem strange I know, but with a raised breakfast bar at the back I think it works. Then with the smaller island and the corner taken off the study, you avoid the corridor feeling. I added a pantry at the top so that you won't need overhead cabinets - this way the room won't feel so narrow.

      Just hope you can still make the lounge end work- if you're not having a TV it should be fine, if there's a TV I'm not sure exactly how you'd set up the seating...

    • Mike F
      Original Author
      7 years ago

      Thanks for all the suggestions - all very much appreciated.

      Oasys: good spot on the fridge opening blocking the walkway. I can see that being a bit of an annoyance after a while. I'm not fully put off as I am attracted to the layout still, but definitely a factor 'against'.

      Oneplan: I think we'll have sufficient pantry space in the utility room area, so although it fits I'm not sure if we'd want an extra pantry in that little alcove. We do have quite a lot of books though and the final design will need to accomodate around 6 meters of tall bookcases. I'm wondering if the space is big to be the start of that? The wall to the rear of the fridge could be bare, then the bookcase starting on the wall bordering the study and then continuing down the right hand wall of the extension.

      Bookworm: Thanks for the drawing. I might try a variant of that and post back. We are intending to have a television. I'd also been thinking about the seating, bit tricky unless you try to section off the room a bit with a sofa in the middle somewhere facing a wall with the TV.


    • bookworm987
      7 years ago

      Excited to hear about your bookshelves they sound lovely! You could try this? I gave you a reading chair with a table for your coffee /wine. It's maybe a bit awkward though.

    • Mike F
      Original Author
      7 years ago

      Thanks again - a bit similar to the one I've just been playing around with. Getting the TV in is tricky... I like the angled wall to the study to open up the corridor, but I don't think we can afford to do that as any further shortening of the wall between kitchen and study will require a RSJ.

      One concern I do have is the number of cupboards in the kitchen. We'd have 2-3 full size cupboards in the island; then 5 around the rest of the kitchen (top and bottom between fridge and oven, top and bottom between oven and peninsular, maybe only bottom where the raise bar meets the wall. Both high cupboards where we would expect to keep glasses will be beside the oven; which for steam isn't ideal.

      I tried a couple of layouts grateful for any further suggestions.

    • PRO
      OnePlan
      7 years ago
      Hi Mike,
      The Fridge needs a void area to right so doors can open. Most USA fridges protrude out further than 600mm - and if you have a range cooker too, then you need more space in front to crouch and open the oven door. So your island needs to be narrower, and I would suggest moveable too, so you can replace range and FF when they breakdown or need pulling out to clean.

      If you are using the utility as a pantry too then I'd suggest you replace hall door for one in kitchen and gain access that way instead, make it more if an inverted U shape instead.

      You need this drawn to scale, so you can make sure you don't over crowd the walkways in the lounge end too.

      Hope that helps !
      Kind regards
      Karen
      OnePlan
    • obobble
      7 years ago
      Hi

      You need to think about how you intend to use the space especially how the doors to the garden will be used. If your kids are young you might want to be able to see them easily whilst working in the kitchen. I find I spend less time sitting at my kitchen table than I do in the working part or on the sofa so views of the garden not so important for me from the table. Alternatively do you want the sitting area to feel cosier , or if sunshine thru windows will fall on tv screen and impair viewing it might be better to have sitting area furthest away from Windows .
    • June Hulton
      7 years ago
      Hi there I am no designer, but all seem pretty much the same to me and others offering very good advise... Only one thing from me.. Make sure you have good lighting in the kitchen area. Being in the middle and on a dark day... ALL you lights would have to be on.... My brother had problem the same... And reverted it back to one wall.. Instead all plonked in the middle.. Looks like it going to be amazing space... Keep us posted .. Thanks. Good luck
    • nadiachristiansen
      5 years ago
      Hi Mike, I’ve just come across your old post and was wondering if you completed the work you had planned? I’m currently working with the exact same plans as you (although slightly smaller scale). Would love to hear how you got on!
      Thaks
    • Mike F
      Original Author
      5 years ago

      Nadia, in end we got rid of the study room altogether and opted for a kitchen at the rear close to bifold doors. We didn't start will Nov 2018 in the end and not quite finished yet, but broad layout is like picture attached. The small cupboard room beside the toilet is for our washing machine / extra freezer. Sink is where the two orange spots are along the top row of green cabinets. Our hobs are opposite the sink on the kitchen island.

      Good luck with yours.


    • nadiachristiansen
      5 years ago
      Thanks for getting back so quick.
      Wow! That is a dream floor plan and definitely what we would have done with the huge space you have (our extension is under 3m deep). I think our only option is to have the kitchen in the middle room to allow for dining/sitting area in the extension. Can I ask if there was anything in particular which put you off moving the kitchen into the middle room? Thanks
    • Mike F
      Original Author
      5 years ago

      For our extension they basically cut a whole in the rear wall of the house, but up vertical steels on both sides, and a steel running across the top to support the upper floor outside wall. The vertical steels stuck out 22cm, so we had to work around that with any use of the side wall.


      This made the kitchen layout really tricky. We couldn't put the hob, sink, fridge or oven where the steel was - and of the layouts that were OK, it meant putting the hob somewhere that it would have been difficult to route an outside vented flue from - as it would mean going through/under the horizontal steel. We thought the external venting was important as we didn't have a side door, nor do the roof windows open - so the only fresh air would have come from the bifolds 5m+ away.


      Annoying steel joists aside, I think both middle and rear kitchen layouts work and I'm sure we'd have stayed with 'middle kitchen' were it not for the practical constraints with our particular build.




    • Ollie Chambers
      3 years ago

      Hi @nadiachristiansen, interested to hear how you've got on with your extension? We're doing something similar and want to go with the kitchen in the middle. Though may end up with a similar issue to @Mike F, as a steel will be put across the back wall of the house and may block any path for extractor ventilation to the outside. We're planning on having opening skylights, but they will be in the extension part so might be a bit too far away. See below...


      Cheers,

      Ollie.




    • nadiachristiansen
      3 years ago

      Hi @Ollie Chambers ah we still haven’t started the work! Mainly delays due to our indecision! We’re starting February now and have decided to go with the kitchen in the ‘middle room’ and the living area in the 3m x 4.5m extension with sliding doors across. The main issue is still the extraction- it’s not a huge space so hob not too far from doors and as having sliding we can open just slightly and have opening roof windows in extension. We’re also having a ducted extractor fitted which will go through the utility (through ceiling) to outside. This can be ducted for 5metres (reducing by 1.2 for every turn) would be too far for you as yours is larger than ours? It’s going to cost quite a lot and we’re still exploring this as I’m not convinced it’s worth the cost as I guess the further the distance to the opening the more reduced the extraction. We cook a lot so we need a system that works. It’s not perfect I’d much prefer to have a window/outside wall for extraction but we have considered every other option and this one suits us best. I think it will be a case of the doors being regularly opened! I don’t have any floor plans etc but am happy to send you some and update you when the work is complete.

    • Ollie Chambers
      3 years ago

      Hey @nadiachristiansen - cool, that's exciting, glad you've found a way to make it work! I'm with you that I'd prefer the rear part of the house to be a living area and have a part of the kitchen face off to it, so it's all still connected. We even thought about putting the hob on the peninsula and pushing it out a little bit so it sits the other side of the steel joist so the extractor duct can just go up vertically and out the roof! Not sure that would work for you given the extension size.


      However... I suspect that it'll be more cost effective for us to have the kitchen in the extension, as it's nearer to where the current kitchen is, and I imagine the kitchen will need alot of custom fitting around the chimney breast/alcoves etc.


      This is our latest thinking...




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