Loft extension dilemmas - advice needed please!

6 years ago

Hi
We have had three quotes from recommended loft companies for our Victorian end of terrace. All 3 have come in with very different recommendations....

Roof height - one has insisted that we need to drop the first floor ceilings by 20cm, whereas another informs that they have experience by using a workaround using a cap (or coping?) stone/tile, and the remaining one made no mention of it, did not see it as an issue....

Misting/fire safety - 2 mentioned the need for a misting system, whereas one other insisted that there was no need, just a hard wired fire alarm system.

There are other disparities e.g. staircase direction etc - but my biggest concerns are the height/misting/fire issues.

Any suggestions /thoughts gratefully received - thank you!

Featured Answer

Frank

6 years ago

Hi Heidi,

Having just done such a project (and learnt a little from it...):

Ceiling heights: minimum thickness of a floor is around 200mm/8" but some of that can be "reclaimed" below e.g. by leaving the joists exposed. Above is trickier because insulation requirements for the roof mean you can't really do that much there; the distance between the outer surface of the roof ridge and the inner ceiling will end up at least 250mm. Do your figures.

Regarding the steelwork, there are lots of technical options to build this and "all of them may be right" as in (not) needing a ridge steel beam. Have you got an SE (structural engineer) spec for it?

You can talk directly to steelworks fabricators about this. Builders tend to buy RSJs from specialist companies whose business it is to "sell steel made to size / spec" - steelworks fabricators. Some builders like to "cut&weld on site" because it saves them time but workshop welding and steel preparation tends to have more consistent quality and is preferred by structural engineers and/or insurance & building control (the latter often because of the fire risk for welding work on small sites). So this may be a case for more questions to the builder ("who's your steel fabricator and would you mind me talking to them?"), or a 2nd opinion by showing the plans to a fabricator and asking them for how they think this could/should best be built.

The technical term is to request a "method statement" - how will the steelwork be made to conform to design, comply with structural spec & building regs and/or constraints of property deeds, and how will it be installed (to satisfy site insurance and Health& Safety regs, and/or other provisions e.g. from party wall awards/consents) ?"

On the fire suppression system: building regs part B (fire safety, https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/485420/BR_PDF_AD_B1_2013.pdf ) extensively talk about "means of escape" which usually are protected / made "safe" by the additional fire resistance hallway walls and fire-rated doors to the hallway/stairwell provide. Where you have open-plan, the guidance says (quote):

"Alternatively, it may be possible to provide sprinkler protection to the open-plan area, [ ... long sequence of auxiliary requirements/explanations ... ]"

And the devil is in the detail. Not the least because "sprinkler" isn't the same as "mist sprinkler" (let's not go there now, rabbit hole...). It's definitely worth pre-clearing the design / fire suppression method with building control, because once you start, having to "alter" later to put extra partitions in not only blows costs out but also kills the design.

From my own experience - do not let the builder "just start" because ... they may hold _you_ to ransom if their (hidden) cost-saving provisions are felled by external agents/influences. With no roof on the building and neighbours breathing down your neck for potential damage or perceived risk, or building control refusing signoff unless major changes, you're in a pretty bad negotiation position. Building regs will pre-clear designs for you, possibly for a small fee.

Good luck !

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Comments (7)

Mirka G
6 years ago
Hi. I am going through the same project. I have appointed an architect who is also assisting me with vetting the builders. Reason for this is that I don't have the technical experience and some times its best to get an expert on your side for those big expenses. I got hurt badly in the past. so this is my way to have some insurance. Good luck
Heidi Berry thanked Mirka G
tamp75
6 years ago
I could be wrong but believe the mist system is only necessary if your downstairs is open plan - e.g. no wall / corridor between stairs & living space which could cause a problem with your escape route if there was a fire in kitchen, etc. You should have hard wired, interlinked smoke alarms regardless.
Heidi Berry thanked tamp75
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GardenFairyGodmother GFG
6 years ago
We are having our loft done at the moment. The first floor needs to be dropped by about 15cm. We saw 15 builders about this, )some were loft conversion specialist )and only one mentioned that our 1920's semi needed to have ceiling dropped. Even our architect said our loft was adequate at the time. Although we had seen five and only one mentioned the loft wasn't tall enough. In the end as the whole house is being renovated, we decided to bite the bullet and have the ceilings lowered. It does add to the costs but once called the loft was all stripped out and measured it was clear that the RSJs couldn't be buried into the attic floor. The builders did give us 2 quotes ,one for lowering the ceiling and one for not. So it wasn't a complete shock. My brother also thought about doing his loft but was advised he too needed to lower the ceiling. He decided not to go ahead as he had redecorated all the bedrooms and put in a new bathroom. It makes sense to renovate a house from top to bottom rather than bottom to top.
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PRO
User
6 years ago
If I were you I'd make an appointment with your Local Building Control Officer. He will let you know without any bias as to what height your ceilings need to be to pass their requirements. Then you can pass that info on to your builders. Personally I would have an building engineer round after the building control officer and he will then let you know how to achieve what the building control officer needs. Then pass all this info on to your builder. ( Builders will have all sorts of ideas on how to do things, but IMPO they are best when given directives to stick to.
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OnePlan
6 years ago
Excellent advice on this thread !
Ultimately any work done in your home and the buck stops with you ! So it's essential that you arm yourself with as much knowledge or pro help as you can ! Even more so when fire safety is involved.
... There's also site health and safety to consider too ! The list goes on !!!
GardenFairyGodmother GFG
6 years ago
Hi Heidi, I forgot to mention we had the choice of fire doors or a wired in smoke detector. We chose the alarm as we have children who never shut the door and as it's a 1920's semi all the doors are not modern standard size. We would have to change all the doorways, frames and architraves to make the new fire doors fit. So from a cost point of view it would have been the same but the alarm was quicker to install. We needed a new fuse box anyway to accommodate the new loft rooms. It all adds up. Even when the foundations were going in, builders and building control said original foundations were bad and we needed to dig deeper which increased the costs. ( Don't even get me started on the alleged asbestos in the kitchen.)

Loft extension dilemmas - advice needed please!

Frank

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Mirka G

tamp75

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