rapscalli

Struggling on planning an extension

rapscalli
6 years ago

Hi all.

Since having two recent additions to our family we are in the early stages of designing an extension to our 1930's semi detached. There are two main issues we are trying overcome


1 - improving the layout of the kitchen / living area. If you take a look at the plans and google maps, you will see that the 'family room' has previously been extended. This has made the living area long and dark (approx 8x4m). I also wish to get as much daylights as possible to these living areas and would like to swop the living area and dining area - move the seating to the rear (more light, closer to garden).

2 - we need a utility / laundry room

3 - move the toilet door off the kitchen. when visitors use the downstairs toilet I am very conscious that they are closely and think it would be much better if the door to the toilet didn’t open directly into the kitchen.


I have a number of issues in coming up with a design:-

1 - cannot see how I can fit a reasonable utility room.

2 - we cannot simply convert the garage as a utility room as my wife needs to be near the kids when in the utility room, otherwise the garage would be an ideal place for it. We will also need to keep at least half of the garage for storage of garden tools / bikes etc.

3 - by extending the kitchen back we will be removing rear access. I am willing to accept this compromise, but will need an easy route through the house for our garden recycling and any other materials that need to come in and out of the garden / garage. I would like this route to be just through a utility room, but cannot see how this would be possible.


Some plans attached

1 - Annotated floorplan (note that this is 'upside down' compared to 2 and 3 below)

2 - google satellite view of house as current. This shows the ‘old’extension (which is a flat roof). You will also see the rear of the kitchen is single story.

3 - Proposed extension. This is the logical outline of the extension, but I cannot see how I can layout the floorplan to have a utility room and fix the issues I have noted.

4 - as a main requirement is increasing natural light, I have put a map showing where the sunrises and sets in summer and winter.


Thoughts please!





Comments (35)

  • A B
    6 years ago

    I would move the garage forward and keep access to the back. It is a nightmare carrying bikes, compost and bins through the house! I would attempt to split the dark middle room into a utility and office (with the fireplace) and a small window if there's enough room. I would have a bright kitchen living space at the back. I would move the WC door to the hallway. I would keep the living room at the front unchanged. Just a rough diagram:


  • Related Discussions

    Struggling with sofa placement in small open plan living area

    Q

    Comments (4)
    Hi. A few options.,You could try a 2 seater between the windows, position the tv opposite on the bathroom wall and have a 3 seater on the back wall. Or keeping with the tv where it is, have 2 x 2 seaters at right angles to the TV and windows. Or the TV on the back wall, a 2 seater between the windows and a 2 seater opposite on the bathroom wall. Or the TV on the back wall and have an l shaped sofa opposite it and put a console table or something behind so you don't have a view of the sofa as you walk in.
    ...See More

    Struggling with planning the floor space!

    Q

    Comments (10)
    I find myself agreeing with a mix of the above : Kitchen and dining should be in the rear extension with folding doors between the kitchen and new playroom (kitchen on your plan). Always useful to shut off a play area to create order and calm! Please leave the extension with French doors which will define the two areas and not out date. Installing a door at the foot of the stairs will help flow to the toilet and mean guests don't have to walk through utility. Meanwhile washing can come straight downstairs without doing such a large loop through the living room. The room that you call storage is useful as a snug to get away from the hubbub of open plan living and or a great teenage hideaway. Of course seeing the house in the flesh adds another dimension to things. I'm sure that there are wonderful designers on this site close to you who would visit and give you some insight for a reasonable fee which would pay off in the long run. Best of luck, Julie
    ...See More

    Help planning open plan kitchen/living extension on 1930's house.

    Q

    Comments (8)
    I’m glad you like the idea for the dining table! If I’m being completely honest I don’t really know whether the new layout ideas really give you any more useable space. Do you need a desk in the room? If so it might be worth having the bit of extra space but it could be worth making the garage storage space into a study space as well rather than having the desk intrude on your living space too much. What do you think? If you kept the bigger storage room then you could maybe do something like the picture attached so having a multi purpose room?
    ...See More

    Struggling with plans

    Q

    Comments (2)
    Kitchen and utility idea: As visitors do not need to go through the utility to get through the kitchen, you might as well leave out the hallway. An island would be merely 1.3m or so, so a peninsula would give you more worktop and storage space. And the coffee machine or kettle could go in the little corner. And by placing the new utility wall 'inwards', you'd gain another 60 to 80cms of kitchen space. And I have no ideas about the ensuite, that's all up to you. Though personally I would not like another doorway in my lounge.
    ...See More
  • whizzywig
    6 years ago

    If at all possible I would advise keeping a side access to the garden, Trying to live without one is a real challenge. Would a combination of Jen P’s and MATH options work? With an integrated garage you could always go up a level also and add a bedroom or two above if budget allows.


  • Jonathan
    6 years ago
    I think if it were me I would be looking to swap your hipped roof for a side gable and put in a loft extension as your attached neighbours have done as this will add most to the value.
    As far as your downstairs issues go I would extend the kitchen into the narrow driveway leaving a path for side access. The extension could have velux like your neighbours on the driveway side, include a laundry room and a new cloakroom off the hallway. The veluxes should help get light into the middle room and removing some of the wall between the kitchen and this room will help.
    I liked Hugh’s suggestion of a roof lantern but if the existing extension has a pitched roof already I would add velux windows rather than changing the roof.
    I would leave the garage unchanged at this time but I can see an argument for removing the up an over door and replacing it with a conventional door and window so that the outlook from the extended kitchen is nicer. When the budget allows it might make sense to demolish the garage and put a freestanding garden room at the end of the garden instead.
  • rapscalli
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    Hi, thanks all for the speedy comments.

    Regarding losing rear access by extending out from the rear, that is a compromise I am willing to make to get additional spare metres and a better ground floor layout, as long as I can take a wheelie bin from the garden to the driveway through a utility area. It is this constraint that I am struggling with.


    "Man About The House - The DIY & Odd Job Handyman"

    That is quite a different take. However, I really would like to keep the size of the current family area and swop around the two areas (dining and living). We use the table a lot, the kids play on it, we use it for every meal etc. Also wish to keep the front room separate and use as an adult escape area!

    The roof lantern looks like a great idea, the current extension is flat so this could be done relatively cheaply. I am unsure about opening up the front room to the living area, I would quite like this to be a permanent adult escape area with a lazy 'library' feel.


    Jen P

    I don’t think we will be moving the garage to the front, it is really more of a shed (it has never had a car in it since we have moved in so I have perhaps misinformed people by using the term garage, think bike shed / garden tools / overspill from the house / my escape area with a workbench..) I also think the utility room needs to be a larger size. Also perhaps more accessible to the side and rear.


    whizzywig

    Same comment regarding the garage - think more shed / man-cave / gardena nd bike storage. Due to planning it will be unlikely I could build a two storey extension on the driveway.


    Jonathan

    Doing a loft conversion is definitely on our wish list, but priorities mean a utility room is what we need to put in first, and while doing so re-layout the ground floor rear for a better feel and flow.

    PS, there isn't that much overlap between the kitchen and garage, and the front of the garage is more or less flush with the rear of the house - I have annotated your drawing.


  • rapscalli
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    PS, the current kitchen is pretty good (around 5 years old), so we are hoping to keep as much of that as possible - appreciate that it may need to move, but if we can keep most of the cabinets and appliances that would mean more to spend on build...

  • rapscalli
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Here's an idea for a proposed plan.

    • Extend 1.5m into the driveway, leaving a round 900 for path to access rear through a new door in garage.
    • Extend the kitchen to rear (approx 2.2m) with a flat roof and lantern.
    • Put utility into rear of kitchen. (but will have no natural light)
    • Move toilet door to hallway. (but this means 3 doors very close together...

    Thoughts?

  • A B
    6 years ago
    Looks good. I think the 'risk' is the dining room area in the middle will still feel dark
  • rapscalli
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    Thanks Jen - hopefully the roof lights will make a big difference.

    Some questions regarding roof lights

    How big could I go and what are the potential problems of having too large roof lights? How can I minimise rain noise, and is it possible to reduce the heat and light in summer time while still getting a lot of natural light in winter?

  • PRO
    User
    6 years ago

    Hi, Sorry.......................I thought you wanted to swap the living and dining over. However, I like the addition on the side that you've posted . Just as long as you know that you'll have to budget a structural steel as technically you're taking away a portion of the side of the house, however, makes sense. I like it. If you could post the actual dimensions though, it would really help. Regards roof lights, we have a glass conservatory roof, and you rarely hear the rain unless it is literally pelting down. I'm not sure there's much of a constraint in size, you just thicken up on the glass and the supporting structure. You would obviously need a structural engineer / architect for this and for the extension on the side.

  • rapscalli
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Hi, yes I am thinking of swopping the living and dining area, but hopefully the roof light (as well as opening out the kitchen) will add quite a bit of light back there.

    The extension on the side is only on the single storey part of the kitchen (it has a traditional lean-to design at the rear.

    Any thoughts on the lack of light to the utility room, or the number of doors together (toilet, front room, living room)

    Another thought, I was wondering if I could put a 'strip' of roof light as far in as possible - see the strip of blue below:

  • whizzywig
    6 years ago
    Looks good. Re: light - I should have thought you would be able to put a window in the proposed utility as it’s only overlooking your driveway. Worth the ask, even if it’s a slim window just below the ceiling... Also, glazed/frosted doors to kitchen, utility & front living room might help with the door-tastic hallway :)
  • rapscalli
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    I like the idea regarding the frosted doors.

    Regarding the window in the utility room, I suppose that means how much room we have on the walls as I agin it will be mostly cupboards there.


    For the strip of windows along the ceiling, something like this (but much simpler of course)

  • PRO
    User
    6 years ago

    You can't put a roof light as in Velux in a flat roof only a roof lantern. I'm obviously missing something on the drawing as I don't understand why you want a strip of light there when you have space for a roof lantern. In that position it's able to offer light to the Utility, so I don't get it. If you want light in the Utility maybe a strip of glass bricks?? I must be having a senior moment!

  • Jonathan
    6 years ago
    For me the issue with your proposal is that the kitchen should be one of the best rooms but is sandwiched between the garage and the utility with minimal outlook plus it’s the not a lot bigger than the original. Personally I think the utility is oversized and I think a better kitchen will have a more positive impact on the property.
    The utility spoils sightlines from the front door through to the back garden so given one of the objectives was about opening it up I am not sure that it achieves it- for me the position of the utility blocks the flow, forcing traffic through the middle room.
  • rapscalli
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    Hi Man About The House, apologies, it is my poor drawings and terminology. When I said roof light I meant in the flat roof lantern.

    The reason for the strip there was to put as much light into the rear of the living room as possible, I was thinking these may be in addition to the roof lanterns. The utility would be in the 2 storey part of the house so would not benefit rom these roof lantern. I have put in another image to give a better idea of the extension.


    Jonathan

    Yes, I see the issue.

    But I haven't mentioned an 'elephant in the room' - budget.

    We have money available that I think could do the extension I have outlined if we managed the trades individually rather than employ a builder to do it all. We don’t have money to extend out on the side in the two storey part of the house - that certainly won't be cheap as it is a much larger price of work than extending just the single storey area at the back of the house.

    I am considering a phased approach to the ground floor and am wondering if if extending roughly as I have outlined and then extending into the driveway all along the house in future to achieve a ground plan similar to yours is a possibility without wasting money.

  • whizzywig
    6 years ago

    Hope you don’t mind another suggestion! I think extending out as far as the garage will not solve the main issues you’re trying to remedy - the addition of a utility room and more light in the main living area. It sounds like you have sufficient square footage otherwise.

    The roof lantern will work wonders over the original family room extension so perhaps you should consider moving the working area a bit closer to that... Below is a possible solution using a small extension on the driveway side for the utility - opening a through way from the hallway to the kitchen, easing flow. The wc could be accessed from either the utility or the hallway (I’ve just shown it from the hall). Access to the garden is theough the utility - with a chance of keeping those muddy boots out of the main house.. The garage remains independant and exterior access to the garden is still relatively easy.

    Also, the small side extension for the utility might work with a roof something like this..?



  • rapscalli
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    Hi whizzywig,

    For the current kitchen and living area, we certainly do not want to reduce the floor area.

    Adding a side extension and using a part of the kitchen for the utility room will reduce the kitchen and also eat into the living area. I also do not mind using the garage to travel back and fore to the garden, as long as the doors are large enough.

    'Squaring off' the rear also brings the option in future of renovating the garage into habitable space.

    Jonathan

    I am trying to think of an amended version of your plan that squares out the rear in phase one (this is the most cost effective location for an extension as it is all single storey), and then uses your layout in a future phase 2 of extension when we have more money available, but am struggling how to arrange the ground floor without putting the utility room in a location that blocks the flow from the front of house to the kitchen / living area. Back to the drawing board....

  • rapscalli
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    hi, does anybody have any further thoughts on how to get a utility room without putting the utility room in a location that blocks the flow from the front of house to the kitchen / living area?

    Note we have limited funds so the extension will need to be in the single storey area of the house, extending to the side will mean removing the current two storey wall, replacing the kitchen, adding an expensive steel etc.

  • PRO
    User
    6 years ago

    I re-read through all the posts and I still can't see the dimensions written down anywhere. It's impossible to do a 'potential' plan without them. Please could you post.

  • Emily
    6 years ago
    It's great having a separate utility but to me, not as good as having a good size and easy to manoeuvre in kitchen/living area.
    If you do extend and open it up as you suggest I would forego the separate utility and instead use some of the kitchen for large dedicated laundry usage. There are lots of pictures on house with lovely double full height wardrobe type cupboards with for example washer dryer side by side with hanging clothes on top or other useful arrangements. They can have space for ironing board and anything else you need. That way the utility space is shared with kitchen space and views not compromised. ?
  • Emily
    6 years ago
    Ps
    If you do laundry cupboards it is a good idea to have everything as 'solid' as possible to minimise vibration which leads to noise. In fact I wouldn't use tall kitchen cupboards I'd make a stud partition with two real wooden doors. Also dehumidifiers are great. I've got a portable floor standing one I've used while renovating but I wonder if you could have a small fitted one in a laundry cupboard/room if it was on an outside room? That was hanging damp clothes would end up dry too??
  • rapscalli
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Man About The House - The DIY & Odd Job Handyman

    Let me measure up and I'll post here.

    Emily

    I quite like that idea, that could be a good compromise. Let me search for some pics and show to my wife as an option.


    PS, can somebody recommend an online tool or an app for drawing floorplans?

  • rapscalli
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    Hello all,

    Some floorpans attached with measurements. Plan 1 is current. Plan 2 is current with some annotations. Plan 3 is an attempt at a proposal. Some comments:-

    • The 'old' extension at the rear of the house and part of the kitchen is single storey, so this is where i have put the extension to minimise construction costs.
    • I have joined onto the garage. This has removed rear access, but i see no other way of getting a reasonable amount of space for the money. Leaving enough room for a path along the side, and also having to leave rear access to the garden between the house and garage restricts the options too much, so have decided that adjoining the garage is the best option.
    • One issue i see in the proposed extension is the three doors in a line - the external door to the new utility room, the door from there to the kitchen area, and the door to the garage.

    Any thoughts as to the layout?


    Jonathan - i have taken on board your comments regarding the previous location i proposed for the utility room and have moved it totally into the driveway. I have also used your idea of opening up the living room by removing the wall that was between there and the kitchen.

    Note i have only planned the rear of the house.

  • Jonathan
    6 years ago
    Thank you for saying that you have taken some inspiration from my earlier suggestion but I can’t see my suggestions in this incarnation of the design. In my opinion the way you are approaching this is driven by your desire to get a big square utility room and your budget concerns but in fact you don’t know what this will cost at this stage.
    I think you need to get a designer on board to consider plans in 3D I think you would feel that this kitchen layout is compromised and garage now a visual barrier to the garden.
    I think that you need to find a design that will be attractive, provide a kitchen that is better than the current kitchen and has a good traffic flow. Once you have the right design then find a way of delivering this within budget. It may be that some jobs get completed later but you will end up having a more saleable and likely higher valued house.
  • rapscalli
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Thanks for coming back Jonathan.

    The element i took from your plan was the removal of the door to the living area from the hallway and removal of the wall between kitchen and living area. You are right that budget is playing a significant part in the decisions, and one of the main drivers of the extension is the need for a decent size laundry / utility room.

    The issue that i see with the design that you proposed is that the extension is on the two storey part of the house, increasing the cost quite significantly i think. I have annotated where the house becomes single storey on the the plan you provided.

    The garage will be staying as it is used to store bikes / sporting equipment / gardening tools / lawn mower etc and also used as a workshop (retreat!).

    If i leave a path down the side (900mm?), this will leave 1500mm, less 300mm for external wall, leaving 1200mm for the utility room. This doesn't seem enough as we wish it to have washer, tumble dryer, a couple of storage cupboards for awkward items (ironing board, hoover etc) and also drying room.

    Is there any way we could make the design i have sketched out flow better, as i cannot see how we can get a decent size utility room without using the space between the house and garage?

    Help please!



  • PRO
    User
    6 years ago

    Could you please put the dimensions on the plan above this post? It's getting very confusing trying to pick things out. I can't see how the one above Jonathan's last post works as the stairs seem to have vanished. Can we stick to one style of footprint with proper dimensions and include the distance from the garage etc and the path.

  • rapscalli
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    Hi Hugh, the floorpans i posted last night have dimensions, but it seems the resolution that houzz have converted them too makes the numbers too small to be seen. (The floorpans on my post from this afternoon were originally from Jonathan, i just added a line to show where the house becomes single storey).

    The reason the stairs are now missing from the plans is that i believe the only suitable location for the extension is on the driveway and/or to the rear. The driveway is 2.4m wide to boundary, and the garage overlaps the house by around 700mm (if that makes sense..)

    Heres a link to a full resolution version of the plans with dimensions visible: -

    PS, the layout of the kitchen, dining and living area is up in the air. The part of the kitchen where the cooker is remains in the same place in the proposed plan - this will help minimise the cost. I am also looking at using a flat roof to match the flat roof that is on the 'old' extension to the living area.


  • PRO
    User
    6 years ago

    I think the bit for me that just doens't work is the kitchen ( agree with Jonathan - site and scale isn't right. The other bit is top left, it's just a space with another dining area in it. It's building for the sake of it.

    There are two things you could do. Neither involve building to the boundary - so if you stay 1m off the boundary you may be under permitted development still. It also lets you keep the passageway which is desirable down the side of the house.

    The utility does not need natural light and it should not be given light to the detriment of the rest of the layout, the kitchen is probably the most important area in the open plan area, then the dining area and lastly the lounge area ( as you have another formal lounge ).

    Thus:- You could just do this, as I'm still not sure we have a budget quoted. This is the simplest way to add a Utility and keep everything else. After all, a Utility room is not essential to life and should never compromise a kitchen layout. It's more of a 'really would like', because we can't fit everything in the kitchen item.


    I personally would aim for this:-

    It gives you a large Utility room, a well placed large kitchen / breakfast area overlooking the garden, a good dining area, a great lounge area. It also retains the passageway and remains 1m from the boundary. It also retains the access immediately to the garage.

    rapscalli thanked User
  • rapscalli
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Thanks Hugh. I really like the fact that the door to the toilet has been moved away from the kitchen / living area.

    One observation, that plan extend out to the side on the two storey part of the house. This will increase the cost significantly (removing the external wall, supports ,steels, structural calc etc.) and none of the current kitchen can be re-used.

    Budget is £30k, but there may be means so that the groundworks (footings and drainage) and walls are done very cheaply. I am also considering managing the trades individuals - there is some family expertise i can call on to support this (but unfortunately no family expertise for design...). The kitchen we have is good, so would like to re-use as much of that as possible.

    Regarding planning, i do not foresee any significant issues for any of the plans as my neighbour (adjoining to my semi) has done a similar build in the past couple of years. Appreciate this is no guarantee though.


    PS an errori have seen on my plans are incorrect dimensions of the toilet - it measures 1540x670 internally.

  • A B
    6 years ago

    30 k really won't stretch far. I would square off the extension at the back, use half of current kitchen as a new utility room, reuse your current kitchen units in the new extension, and I still think you should move the garage forward so you keep access to the garden (through the garage). Gives you everything on your wish list though...

  • PRO
    User
    6 years ago

    I'm not sure I understand why your kitchen can't be re-used if you extend sideways? Is that what you meant? The kitchen can be re-used wherever it is at the moment. Yes, you may need more units, but mix and match colourwise is in at the moment. Many people have a different coloured Island to the rest of the kitchen, so that shouldn't be a problem.

    Yes, you will incur costs with a steel on the side, but it is a standard build and you're not bolting steels together, so it really is relatively easy. You just have to get a structural engineer to work out the load and the steel required. The rest is brute force and donkey work for the builder.

    I would contact a few building companies - If I ever need help on a build I use MyBuilder. Tell them up front that your budget is 25K decked and finished, with a small contingency and that is also to re-use the kitchen. I usually find that if you stick with one firm, you get more for your money - makes sense, as they're earning more in one place, so, easier for them.

    If they can't do it for the price and make sure you get a fixed price quote, then they won't want the job and you can move on to the next one.

    Yes, you can save money by doing all the boarding out etc, then get the builder back to plaster, but if you don't know what you're doing with the electrics, plumbing etc, you can't board out successfully, you'll just create problems.

    So, try and get a fixed price quote first, you may be surprised.

  • rapscalli
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    Hi Jen P,

    I don’t think there is room to move the garage forward - the driveway is just 2.4m. I would also need to keep the garden tools somewhere and the garage location is really handy where it is - we live in the rear of the house and i regularly use the garage as a work area and can keep an eye on the kids in the garden when i am working there.

    There is also the issue that Jonathan mentioned above that moving the kitchen forward and then using half of the kitchen for utility spoils the 'flow' of the house in that you have to walk through the utility to get to the kitchen.

    Man About The House - The DIY & Odd Job Handyman

    I think i need to speak to some builder friends to give me some rough costs on the various options to see what is within budget. Thanks for your help.


  • A B
    6 years ago

    Forgot to attach diagram. Access to kitchen to right of hall (not through utility). Is it fair to say the garage comes first, house second with this project?! I'm sure many would sympathise with this point of view!

  • rapscalli
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    Hi Jen. That is similar to the layout i created originally. But as Jonathan pointed out putting the utility room in that position spoils the flow of the house (something that would really bother me!)

United Kingdom
Tailor my experience with cookies

Houzz uses cookies and similar technologies to personalise my experience, serve me relevant content, and improve Houzz products and services. By clicking ‘Accept’ I agree to this, as further described in the Houzz Cookie Policy. I can reject non-essential cookies by clicking ‘Manage Preferences’.