When you put gravel do you have to put black plastic underneath to sto

Comments (12)

PRO
Margie Grace - Grace Design Associates
5 years ago
Do not use the underlayment under the gravel. It kills the soil and the gravel is forever slipping off of the membrane.
PRO
Willhite Grading & Excavation Inc
5 years ago
Plastic is no good but we use filter fabric, It allows water to pass, soil to breath and acts as a good barrier to slow weeds. In time some weeds will make their way up but they are easily manageable. Also need to use landscape staples to pin down your fabric tight to the earth making sure there are no loose or folded areas. Been using this technique for 20 years and it works very well and keep intrusion from native soils into your finish materials. Best to go to landscape supply store and ask for the heavy gauge 14ft wide filter fabric. The stuff you find at somewhere like Home Depot is junk.
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Comments (69)
Have a look at how this house would have been presented in 1928. See if you can find any archives from the firm which designed it. Pebble-dash has a long history of domestic use here, going back to the nineteenth century, and it is possible to renovate it or replace it with modern pebble-dash which looks very handsome. At one time a terrible pink pd was used (later twentieth century), but the look you would be after is a tawny, sandy-beach range of colours. Your house was built at a time when there was a great taste for creating manageable homes with subtle rustic touches to give a cottagey feel without making extra work for the maid/housewife or actually making it look like a real cottage (which at that time still meant the slums people were escaping as much as anything else.) The 20s were also a time when the popular taste for half-timbered and timber-framed buildings was very strong. The people who call the buildings in Canada and the US "Tudor" because of the timber decoration on the exterior derive their description from early 20th c useage in Britain. Real timber-framed etc buildings used render which had to be reparied and repainted pretty constantly. This is where pebble-dash, a vry tough material, comes in. I wouldn't lose it! I'd keep it and clean and mend it. If you get someone in to fix it the old-fashioned way you'll be surprised at the skill it takes (not unlike harling.) Look at the nice way it flares at the bottom so neatly. Don't lose these humble period details, I beg of you. But rethink the porch and hide the burglar-alarm.
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PRO
Jay Sifford Garden Design
5 years ago
I hate weed cloth of any kind. From my experience, Margie is correct: it causes gravel migration and a slipping hazard. Here, weeds grow in the gravel on top of weed cloth. And I don't mind weeding. It's therapeutic for me to do so. People amaze me when they say they don't have time to weed, but have entire Sunday afternoons to watch sports. It's all a matter of priority. I always chuckle to myself when I hear those comments.
PRO
Willhite Grading & Excavation Inc
5 years ago
We use it but only with a minimum of 4" of cover. If installed correctly it will not snag nor will it cause slippage. This is not weed cloth its heavy gauge contractor grade filter fabric and as far as killing soils... My entire 24 year career is working earth and the fat earthworms under the filter fabric would beg to differ with dead soils. Plast will make the ground sterile for a time but if soils can still access water and air they will be fine. Its different strokes for different folks but if you choose to overlay on native soils in time you will have cohesion and be paying me to remove cross contaminated soils or bring in new soils. The single biggest mistake I see on most cases is mulch covers being used. If in time you want any grading or earthwork done you will pay 5 times as much to deal with souls contaminated with organic material. Personally I think long term not short and far as killing soil... well your going for a manicure look with gravel and I dont care what you do soils will simple re activate once gi en air, sunlight and water. I remove acres of land covered by asphalt and concrete and within 48 hrs we have growth. Just a dirt guy not a landscaper and personally dont believe in killing souls just shutting them down.
PRO
Margie Grace - Grace Design Associates
5 years ago
You'll find it difficult to walk in 4" of gravel - it will roll underfoot. Lots and lots of literature on both sides of the topic. 'Nuff said.
PRO
Willhite Grading & Excavation Inc
5 years ago
Margie is right depending on spec of rock. If you use anything under in the 1/4 inch range and natural rock such as pea gravel it's best to reduce amounts of coverage. If you do use anything larger 1/2 inch and crushed with min of 3 fractured sides it will be firm. Like I said it depends on what you are going for. I personally dont like pea gravel because it does move so easily. When we build bauchi ball courts or even DG pathways we lay our filter fab then compact in a class 2 base then com over the top with our DG. Landscapers also dont like to hear about the use of lime in making materials harden but it's all used. Many arguements about many things in construction. We use many things that landscape companies do not like geogrid, soil treatments for over saturated materials and far as written articles it's a crap shoot. I can produce an encyclopedias worth of written articles on use of filter fabric and French drain systems behind natural and man made walls. They are both plausible and each side has great points. Bottom line is it's your yard and I for one have a very plush yard and can produce a ton of lush projects were we use fabric to cut down on weeds and limit cross contamination of materials and far as weeding... yeah I'll stick to my football games and weed a fraction of the time. Obviously if you're in the landscape trade you already enjoy landscaping lol. And two more tips... Try to use something that needs very little water close to the foundation of your home and make sure at least 3% fall is maintained away for min of 5 feet. To many companies place driplines and or sprinkler systems next to foundations causing huge issues I get paid a lot of money to fix. When it comes to the stability of your home water just isn't your friend. Second I love palms, I have palms but they destroy everything underground. the root systems are so insane to deal with if u ever plan on doing any earthwork down the road. It costs a fortune to deal with spoils filled with palm roots and it's a nightmare to dig through. I'm out I'll let the landscaping contractors have at it lol
PRO
Willhite Grading & Excavation Inc
5 years ago
One more thing I will add. went off photo provided. We treat flagstone same as pavers and I can provide an unlimited number of plans with filter fabric under 6 to 12 inches of number 2 and number 57 stone for permeable surfaces in use now. Also the stone in photo appears to be at a minimum 1/2 inch crush with 3 hard edges. If a stone is crush and not natural "river rounded" it's not going to move. I will agree on planted areas that its simply not needed were bark type ground covers are being used. Most of these ground covers do a great job of suppressing weed growth but we treat flagstone and walking areas the same as any area were footwork "concrete" or pavers would be used... In new construction that would also include a minimum of 1 foot over excavation and recompaction to a minimum of 90% relative density below all finish materials. Its standard practice in any are that will become an area used as a foot traffic path or finish product such as flagstone or pavers. In the end landscape areas using covers and heavy planting it's not worth it and I would agree with other posts but any walking or flagstone areas should be treated the same as any othe flatwork finish for longevity. The one exception is in expansive soils "clay" but in this case its we remove 24 inches under and 18 inches outside footprints and fill with filter fab or woven geogid with 1 ft of #2 stone and 1 ft of #57 stone to allow water to pass, hold and purc back into water table over time. Obviously way over kill for your question but in most new construction we deal with this regularly but its engineers doing the design.
PRO
Margie Grace - Grace Design Associates
5 years ago
Wow! Pretty heavy-handed treatment altogether. Just because it's "more built" doesn't make it better. Sure, it costs more, but does it provide value? I vote for a lighter footprint and closer to nature and less costly. Waaaaaaaaaaay over-engineered for this girl.
PRO
Margie Grace - Grace Design Associates
5 years ago
Hi Sarah. I recommend you check out the looks of our projects and those of the other people making comments and decide which look you like best. That ought to help guide you.
PRO
Willhite Grading & Excavation Inc
5 years ago
I would argue the plans we are handed are way over engineered as well. just saying meeting somewhere in the middle is a better solution and arguing my point. You say 4inches rolls under foot. I say be more specific in your generalization. I gave specific rock sizing and specs to back what I advised. Read my post. says nothing about and even states it's over kill for her question but its standard practice in new high end builds today.
PRO
Margie Grace - Grace Design Associates
5 years ago
Of course it's standard practice in high end installations --- why spend less? More naturalistic for me, please. 'Nuff said.

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When you put gravel do you have to put black plastic underneath to sto

Margie Grace - Grace Design Associates

Comments (12)

Margie Grace - Grace Design Associates

Willhite Grading & Excavation Inc

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Jay Sifford Garden Design

Willhite Grading & Excavation Inc

Margie Grace - Grace Design Associates

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Margie Grace - Grace Design Associates

Margie Grace - Grace Design Associates

Willhite Grading & Excavation Inc

Margie Grace - Grace Design Associates

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