Sliding doors or bi folds for 8m expanse

5 years ago

last modified: 5 years ago

Hi all first ever post so here goes.

Attached is the master plan for a kitchen extension which now spans across the house!

Advice would be appreciated in respect of how to fill the 8m opening which looks over a south facing garden which is not overlooked.

Our preferred option is sliding doors right the way across (not yet costed but we know will be expensive) however the builders are keen to steer us away from glazing such a wide space and have suggested 2 smaller bi folds which we don't think will look as good. They have also left his aspect of the build with us to cost and arrange fitting (is this normal)?

So I am keen on people's opinions on a) whether bi folds or sliders b) more brickwork c) recommended firms who can fit and supply such glazing in the North West of England area.

Thanks for reading

Featured Answer

Suzanne C

5 years ago

Above is our goal post steels and the finished sliding doors ( we are still planning to put curtains in). If you do plan to have curtains allow for space either side of the doors so they don't interrupt the view!

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Comments (57)

Julie Norris
5 years ago
I dont know if this helps at all, but my friend has recently renovated a house, which is now for sale, so I have screenshot the kitchen/doors so you can see what they did with a similar sized space in terms of doors. Hope it helps.

We have bi-folds in our house and I love them, but the kitchen got very hot in the summer, and also as Tani mentions, my friend walked straight into one a few weeks ago when it was dark outside and lights on inside, ha
Paul
Original Author
5 years ago
Hi and a huge thank you to everyone who has replied....really grateful! Great design Jonathan

The temperature is certainly something we have not properly considered and all day sun in an area we would want to dine and relax in has not been considered....which then brings in how to dress it and the increased costs!

we are happy to extend right across but I do now think that glazing it all could be a mistake due to temps and practicality......how would the kids get outside when doors are closed etc.

Really keen on your views on how to keep the wow factor with an 8m gap, keeping it practical and making sure I don't invest in a sauna!

Thanks again!
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Jonathan
5 years ago
Does your lounge have a front window or do you need to borrow lots of light from the extension?
Paul
Original Author
5 years ago
Hi Jonathan......no other windows to the lounge so if we extend across it we will be putting a narrow window either side of the chimney breast......more money.

We initially only wanted to extend across the kitchen but thought for the extra money it would be better to go right across however it has thrown up more questions than answers e.g doors, heat, darkening the lounge, use of space
Jonathan
5 years ago
Your architect will be able to advise you how to keep this cool in the summer and warm in the winter but it does need to be considered.

The architect will also help you with the size of the new side windows in the lounge to meet regulations regarding ventilation and what will be permitted given they are likely near a boundary with your neighbour.

I was thinking about the plan and if you have kids you might want to consider putting an extra wc by the utility room door so that they don’t have to track through your new kitchen to go to the loo - you need a plan that considers your lifestyle and how you live and that’s what concept planners do
Emily
5 years ago
I haven’t read your whole thread properly but have seen you are discussing solar gain in the summer. There are lots of diagrams online and info to help you understand how shading summer sun but allowing winter sun in works. And I like the thermal mass principle too and I know it works since I have had a house where it was obvious especially when the heating broke down one year. So it’s worth considering having a natural stone floor of some kind by the glazing.
Paul thanked Emily
Alexandra J
5 years ago
I would not go with bifolds, I am current doing a single story extension of 16 meter wide and I have used a fantastic company on the Wirral, merseyside called glassrooms, they are installing sliding doors for me and they have provided the best cost by a mile!

They even drove me round several of there customers houses that they had done which gave me great confidence.

Good luck.
Paul thanked Alexandra J
coral77uk
5 years ago
We’ve just done a kitchen extension with 9m sliding doors. Am so glad we chose those over bifold as its so quick to open, no risk of slamming doors and less site lines. Cost around £12k inc VAT. Its a south facing room so did get a little hot but we’ve had them open most days even a tiny bit on cooler days.
Paul thanked coral77uk
smac232
5 years ago
I agree that 8m of glass is a lot but if you have a beautiful garden view then you might go for it.

I can't see a lot of difference in solar gain between bi-folds and sliders but would think about how often you are going to have them open. Coming out of the warmest summer in 40 years it is tempting to think that they will be open all the time. However, when closed, bi-folds will have significantly more "frame" than glass compared to wide sliding doors. Therefore your views out to your garden will be more dominated by the frames. I've seen both and sliders can look cleaner and less dominant when closed.

Ultimately your choice. Keen to see the finished room
Paul thanked smac232
Tani H-S
5 years ago
Actually, looking at your room plan- it’s almost the same size and layout as my own planned extension and south facing!

I’ve been posting about door options for some time so if you want to read anymore on other thoughts then just check my posts on my profile.
Mine is 4.2m internally x 8.13 external (so about 7.5 inside width) housing the kitchen and dining area with the lounge at the back (wider L shape)

I looked at all sorts of doors and sliders were my preferred option for a modern door but as previously mentioned, my OH wasn’t keen (crittall were my fav but not applicable here).

So we are going for a 6m run of wider bifolds in black but we are doing more of an industrial theme so I don’t mind the lines as much. They are costing us about £4,200

Looked at panoramic bifolds which are essentially separate panels you can slide around for air flow and use like sliding doors but they can then fold up as bifolds at the other end. They were a lot more expensive but looked great.
You can also get frameless bifolds as well of course if you have a higher budget.

Solar wise ..
I’m told that laminated double glazing will block out most UV rays but not sure yet if it helps stop solar issues (still researching!) I used to work in glass and didn’t remember! LOL think that will cost me another £450 or so.
Solar glass coating is super expensive but would also work.

I think if you have a lovely view and you aren’t worried about anyone running into the doors then sliders are great. You could put a separate traffic door to the far side so you can come/go out of that as a normal door. That wood also shorten the overal glazing required.
Paul
Original Author
5 years ago
Morning and thanks again for your replies.

Forgive the pun but it feels like we have hit a brick wall and have a headache.....going round in circles......!

I believe that the south facing heat issue can be overcome and I would encourage a solar gain read on the internet......interesting.

it's the practicalities of all glass which is the main concern.....for example both the dining and relaxing areas on my plan are immediately in front of the glass.......this would necessitate blinds or similar on sunny days no matter what season.

so 10k windows plus who knows how much to fit blinds.......can anybody help with designs and an idea of costs for such.

also any ideas on creating a traffic door on sliders pls

ta
User
5 years ago
We have 9m (x 2.4m high) of bifold doors on a south facing elevation. The room area is around 100 m2 and we do have other windows and doors into this room as well. We had internal blinds installed as we were worried about heat and also fading of furniture and flooring etc. We are so glad we did. We had the blinds down during the day and very slightly tilted so the sun does not shine in but interestingly enough they do not block the view outside...you would harldy know the blinds are there. As for the heat, as longas the blinds are down, its fine. Just make sure you have an odd number of doors and this will give you a traffic door for opening for ventilation and also for going outside. The cost of the blinds obvs increases the price but then you have to consider what you would pay to have curtains or blinds made to fit that huge area. We paid in the region £16K for supply and fit and that includes blinds. We couldn't be happier with the result. i hope this helps with your decisions.
Paul thanked User
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Ikonografik Design
5 years ago
Suggest [expensive] solar control glass is considered. You can get silvery glass that isn't tinted as much as the green or blue types.

Suggest you also do a heat gain calculation. This should be able to be organised by your architect and / or building control surveyor. If the results tell you summertime temperature too high you have option to change design. I.e. less glass, change type of glass, incorporate shading etc.

8m is very long for glazing. Biggest one I've done is 6.9m long and the manufacturers said they couldn't get much bigger.
Paul thanked Ikonografik Design
Emily
5 years ago
You are right good blinds can be expensive, so thinking about it now is a pain but better overall. And at least you have the wonderful prospect of dining and living by lots of light with sight of greenery which will be a lovely wellbeing boost everyday. Good luck!
Paul thanked Emily
Tani H-S
5 years ago
we got a price of around £600 for remote control roller blinds that would go over our 6m run. That's with 3 blinds - thinner one for the traffic door and 2 wider blinds. Would cost more to have them over each 5 panels though. Also seen ones that are day/night so filtered light in the day and blackout for the evening that would work to still give you the light you want but not blinding for your relaxing areas. It might block the garden view though.

Personally I would do a visual plan of the room (try "Home By Me" which I used - it's super easy, 3D and you can actual see the room to work out where you might want some wall and might want some glass. (see an example of my image below). You can do a 'walk through' as well. It really helps to work out what's best in wall/doors and the position etc.

As for going around in circles... I've done about 3 posts asking about windows and options. There is never a 100% definite answer as everyone has different opinions and tastes and all my polls come out 50/50 split, haha. I just had to make a decision on what we could afford in the end.
PRO
OnePlan
5 years ago
If you don’t want the confusion of asking lots of people from the internet - there are concept planners ( like us) who can work with you to get the design right ! We are unbiased and have loads of years experience.... click on my icon or name to see some past projects and reviews if you like !
Paul
Original Author
5 years ago
Evening all and thanks for the replies.....clearly the way forward is blinds preferably electric and at least I can know budget them in where previously I had overlooked them.

With that in mind can anybody recommend a company for electric blinds......particularly in respect of covering sliders or bi folds. I am interested to learn how they are fitted to keep the minimal look.

Also Gerty Werty what do you mean when you refer to your blinds tilting?

I am now content to stick with my plan and should it go over budget resort to not extending right the way across the house.....just the kitchen.........thanks guys......really good forum with great ideas.
Adrian Scotland
5 years ago
Looks a lot like our kitchen which was finished just in time for summer just gone. We went for 8 m sliders. Much better than bi folds as spend most of their life closed. They stack up too so not too much different in terms of size of opening and they do not intrude or extrude like Bi folds do. You keep them closed mostly because too cold in winter I expect and too many flies and wasps etc in summer. Kids getting out is easy enough. If I could do it again I would go for fixed Crittal window seats and a smaller opening in the middle as described above and for all the reasons mentioned. Also automated velux roof lights for ventilation. In terms of heat issues this has been a big frustration for us. Not the doors, but we installed 2 huge roof lanterns. Solar control glass does not seem to help at all. Quotes for motorised blinds for the lanterns are coming in at 9.5k! I’d be interested if anybody has any ideas about how to control glare and heat from two 2.8m square roof lanterns for less than 5k.
Paul thanked Adrian Scotland
User
5 years ago
Paul...we have internal blinds between the double glazing. They are horizontal slatted blinds so you can tilt, or have them fully closed etc. Personally prefer them to having external roller blinds as they stay clean and you do have the option of having them tilted open but still able tobsee the view outside.
Paul thanked User
PRO
Londonfatcat
5 years ago
Hi Paul,

I recently worked on a project drawing up plans for an extension with an 8.5m width. The conversation was the same re bi-folds approach. You can achieve the coveted "wow" factor in ways other than end-to-end bi-fold windows, which is incredibly lovely but somewhat common (and inefficient for heating as you rightly pointed out). We went for 3 large arched windows looking into the garden. I have attached the plans.

I wish you all the best with your project!

Faten
www.londonfatcat.com
Paul thanked Londonfatcat
R countryside
5 years ago
We had about 10m width which we divided between 6m sliding door (we love it, glad we went for the sliding door) and three windows (kitchen side). This year was a hot summer but we didn't mind it too much. I have put a pic for you to see. good luck with your plans and hope everything goes smoothly.
coral77uk
5 years ago
We haven't bothered with blinds on our 9m sliders. Haven't regretted it either. We also have a big roof light and some velux's down the side return. Not too light even this summer. At one end we have a tv on the wall and mostly there's no glare. We have a slight overhand on the roof on the outside so that's what helps with the less glare.
minipie
5 years ago
As an alternative to blinds you could consider an awning (not sure if they come in 8m wide though, you’d need to check!). This produces the overhang shading in summer but obviously can retract fully when not needed.

I do thihnk splitting up the 8m span is sensible. We have a 6.5m ish space and are splitting it between 4.4m sliders and 1.6m pivot window (part of a windowseat).
Paul
Original Author
5 years ago
Hi all once again a big thank you for sharing.....

We are now set on splitting the gap up and keep the largest part sliders although we did prefer the idea of bi folds with integral blinds....

We were at a party last night and got chatting to a builder (can't get away from them at the moment......no offence to the builders out there) ......the upshot being that he told me to steer clear of bi folds no matter what the size is......too much to go wrong in his words!!!

So I think we're done on the bi fold v sliders debate at our house so sliders it is with a window or 2 somewhere along........not to mention the electric blinds!

Coral77uk are u south facing.?

R countryside.....that looks amazing - any issues with the practicalities of sliding them to quickly pop in and out?
Suzanne C
5 years ago
Hi Paul, we recently did an extension last year and we have 7.4m sliding doors on a triple track. So they can slide either way. We have another door that is 3.4m on the other side of the room and we have 4 roof lights that slide open. We are also south facing! It was fabulous summer and the doors were spectacular and well worth it! Yes it got hot, and we haven't installed our curtains yet but we wouldn't change it for the world! Having the roof lights removed all the rising hot air. After having the hottest Summer (we are in the South), would welcome another, we wouldn't change a thing on the sliding doors but we would have blinds/curtains to help protect the floor. We had a large 8m steel to support the door similar to a goal post.

Ps, no issues with the practicalities of popping in and out, the slide effortlessly! We are constantly letting the cats in and out as they would rather use the large doors than the cat flap!
Suzanne C
5 years ago
My husband has just looked at your drawing and added a view valid points as we originally had planned an 8m door in a 10m space.....

1. Look at the brick spacing on the outside and order the sliding doors to the shape of the hole with half or whole bricks so you don't get slithers or biscuit bricks with either side of the door as that will look a little unprofessional.

2. If this is a living room area, allow a space for a television in a corner if you don't have it on the side wall. We have no glare on the far right where the sofas are. (we are south facing too).

From the points above we ended up with 7400mm doors and a space of 1240mm either side to put furniture and TV's and curtains in this space.
Paul thanked Suzanne C
Paul
Original Author
5 years ago
Thanks Suzanne C.....that looks amazing!

Your comments about layout have got us thinking.......as you look down at my plan would you put the dining area to the left and the sitting to the right or versa.

I was thinking of putting the sitting area and tv to the left as u look at the plan (tv on that side wall to prevent glare) but am concerned that the kitchen doesn't flow into the dining area if I put it to the right.?

Any thoughts?
Suzanne C
5 years ago
I honestly don't think it matters so much where you put the dining table as you have such a large opening towards the kitchen. Logic says to put it nearest the kitchen, but do you always eat at the dining table or would you often eat your meal on your lap while watching TV? If it's the latter, I don't it matters. Looking out from the kitchen and the living room, where is the best view and to make sure a large dining table or a large sofa isn't blocking the view while you are sitting down or cooking. Stand in those areas and imagine watching TV or eating at the table...

Just remember to put TV cables and Cat 6 cables in a few places in case you change your mind at a later date! We also put floor sockets in the floor where our table is so it means we can charge the laptop whilst working from home. It is hidden by the floorboard when not in use.
R countryside
5 years ago
Hi Paul, your post is a hit! great to see folks providing their input. hope this all helps. your question to me - do we see practical problems because we don't have a side door?
Answer - it would be good to have a have a traffic door (although we don't have it) especially if you have young kids who want to be out and then in and then out again. Would love to see the pics when your house is all done. good luck with it.
Paul
Original Author
5 years ago
Hi R countryside.....thanks for your reply and honesty.....it is the practicality aspect which was swaying me to bi folds cos they have the traffic door for the kids and dog.

Also I can just imagine the handprints of my kids all over my sliders......why use a handle when you can just push on the glass hehe....

So its back to our plan drawer who will be glad to see the back of us!

Sliders and a microfibre cloth it is then!

Thanks to all once again.....Paul
coral77uk
5 years ago
Yes we’re south facing.
Paul thanked coral77uk
PRO
Origin - Doors and Windows
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago
Hi Paul,

This article may help you as it goes into the pros and cons of each. Its a tricky decision but I hope this article helps: http://bit.ly/bifold-doors-vs-sliding-doors

We manufacture and supply both bi-fold doors and inline sliding doors, so if you'd like any further information from us, please get in touch: http://bit.ly/contact-origin

Thanks,

Robyn
Paul thanked Origin - Doors and Windows
User
5 years ago
I am probably biased as we have bifolds. We absolutely love them and have had them open most of the days this summer. We love the fact you can slide back the whole wall. And also the fact that we do have a traffic door.
Paul thanked User
PRO
Skyglaze Ltd
5 years ago
Our vision door can be as large as 12m wide and moves effortlessly

Visit our web site and view the photo blog for hundreds of installations

www.skyglaze.co.uk

Matt
Paul thanked Skyglaze Ltd
PRO
Cherwell Windows
5 years ago
Hi Paul,

You should definitely have large high performance sliding doors installed and really take advantage of the sun.

Either a two pane high performance slider or a three pane triple track slider would look fantastic across the back of your house.

If you need any advice, please don't hesitate to contact us. Cherwell Windows

Thanks
sp4rkle
3 years ago
Paul, do you have any photos of your extension and sliding doors rather than bi-folds? We are in the same dilemma! Thanks in advance!
PRO
Ikonografik Design
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
Hi @sp4rkle - I have some photos of a project we helped with that have sliding doors and look less obtrusive than bi folds as less frame and more glass. Will post a few photos below.
sp4rkle
3 years ago
Thank you so much for those photos and visuals. What was the rationale for putting the sofa against the window space or could those sliders only be opened from left side with view to the garden?
HU-604880702
3 years ago
Hi this is the finished article......Paul
HU-604880702
3 years ago
And another 😁
HU-604880702
3 years ago
HU-604880702
3 years ago
PRO
Ikonografik Design
3 years ago
@sp4rkle, the furniture and final position were chosen by the clients, no particular rationale as far as I know, the room is very large so space not an issue + sliding doors very large so views and daylight not an issue. The overall layout of kitchen, dining and sitting room works quite well I think.
sp4rkle
3 years ago
Great to see the finished article Paul. Well done! Do you have blinds as must get hot with the large expanse of sliding doors?
HU-604880702
3 years ago
Yep....day night electric blinds...
sp4rkle
3 years ago
Excellent. Thanks for the visual. Always helps as builders are only at the foundation stage at the moment! 28m3 of concrete pumped on the site last week as our house built on higher ground so extension has to match ground level and we're adding a first level extension too. A long way to go but take each day at a time. No more projects for you then?!
HU-604880702
3 years ago
Erm.....NO! 150 tonnes taken out of garden b4 build even started.....good luck with your build.....it will be worth it in the end ......promise!!
sp4rkle
3 years ago
Thanks. I'm loving the way how supportive and genuine this community is. Enjoy your home!
KXD
last year
Suzanne C, your sliders are beautiful. What company did you use please? Thank you.