Design/ Builders dispute

5 years ago

We’re currently having a single storey rear extension built which we commissioned an architect to design.

Despite only being allowed to go up to 4m in height, it was designed to be within a few mm of this and as a result, during building it has gone over the height limit.

It is already significantly higher than we, as lay people who did not fully understand the drawings, expected it to be. We now have a view from our 3rd bedroom of mainly a pitched roof rather than open space.

They are saying there are building tolerances that cannot be accounted for and planning will not challenge it. They also said it would be several thousand pounds cost to us to lower the ridge and that another job may take priority leaving us behind schedule.

We’re trying to invite an amicable solution but feel like the buck is being passed.

Do you think the compromised 3rd bedroom view is a problem (it does not block the light) and what can we do to protect ourselves?

We generally have a good rapport with the team and want them to stay motivated.

How should we address it?

Thank you in advance.

Featured Answer

PRO

User

5 years ago

One further note on this one - be clear about what the problem is - there are 2 issues at play here:

1. obscuring the window. If the design was for it to be at the centre of the sash, then it looks like it's not too far off that, and lowering the roof a little will make only a tiny difference to the end result.

2. the planning contravention, and possible future enforcement action. Informing the planners of the extra height won't help the builder or architect resolve the issue. You should make it clear that you did not approve a taller extension than was designed, and seek written advice from your architect that they accept responsibility for instructing a taller design. They should also accept responsibility for any future consequences. They have a professional obligation to you as their clients, and if they are actually confident that the 'extra' height isn't a problem, they should be willing to put it in writing and accept the consequences.

Incidentally, 12 months after completion an indemnity policy can be purchased, which would insure you against any enforcement action, but only if the planners have not been notified of the problem. 4 years after completion the work will become immune from enforcement action, and so it would cease to be a problem at all. The time window of risk is therefore relatively short. This of course does not excuse or condone the fact of it being built wrong.

Finally, the height limit may well be open to interpretation, and often with planning rules you would measure from the 'natural ground level', which can vary, so it can be perfectly legitimate to measure from the highest 'natural' ground level to increase the actual overall height accordingly.

Good luck!

Comments (17)

Sam Potter
5 years ago
I don't know anything about building, though I'm sure others will offer more expert advice. Could your architect intervene? Or at least offer advice?
PRO
User
5 years ago
This is a difficult situation to be in - you should seek professional advice as soon as possible, probably from your architect in the first instance.
Related Discussions
Builders not responding
Q
Comments (10)
So are they saying they are 3 months late due to waiting for the additional parts, which they can't buy until they are paid for the other job? The key question they need to answer is: when are they due the payment for the other work, and therefore when can they complete yours? It's not even something you should be negotiating, their cashflow should not be holding up your job. I'm afraid this does sound quite serious and if you haven't formalised things in writing at this stage I'd be tempted to get a solicitors letter drafted (I'm imaging the budget is quite large). You do not want to be in a position where you find they go bust, so get the official letters etc done now!
...See More
Do you supply builders?
Q
Comments (3)
We are a design led team of craftsmen specialising in bespoke interior renovations, so if you're looking for one point of contact to guide your project from the design stage right through to completion then feel free to get in touch for a chat. Robin
...See More
Stressed with choices and demanding builders
Q
Comments (8)
I'm sorry to hear that you're feeling overwhelmed with decisions and the pressure the builder is putting on you! I'd say like others, don't be bullied into choosing a Howden's kitchen if it isn't what you want. Also if you hadn't said that this is where you'd want units and therefore aren't happy with where the underfloor heating has been put, it could be worth considering mentioning this. Whilst you don't want to create a toxic relationship with the builder, Sonia is right.. they're working for you. You're paying probably a significant amount of money, not only for the kitchen but the rest of the work, and whilst it's always nice for it to be complete.. it's worth putting your foot down and insisting on a delay rather than rapidly choosing something that later you'll regret. I agree - One plan comes highly recommended on here although I've not used her myself, but I suspect she could help optimise your layout for something that works for you.
...See More
Architect + Builder vs Design & Build
Q
Comments (10)
Hi Sonia, Design & Build is like a one-stop shop for the whole job. They would draw up the layout plans, apply for planning, and then undertake all elements of the build including groundwork, construction, plumbing, electrics, etc. Taking this route is like buying all your food from the supermarket, rather than going to the bakers, the butcher, the greengrocer etc. In the supermarket simile, I would say the main advantage of supermarket shopping is that it is more convenient and saves time, however going to the butcher, baker etc would be better quality and more choice. Maybe it's the same with my query... maybe Design & Build is quicker and more convenient but architect and builder gives you more choice and better quality!??
...See More
Jonathan
5 years ago
I agree- get advice quickly before the builders proceed further. Personally I don’t think the planners will lightly accept the deviation from plans. Secondly I don’t think it sounds like your builder has built what you contracted him to build. Thirdly I think building in front of any window is a botch job.

Check your facts but I would imagine you would want this roof pitch to be lower and assuming the plans were correct the builder should put this right without further threats of late running or additional cost to you.
smadd
Original Author
5 years ago
The architect recommended the builder and they have other jobs on together so they are in cahoots to some degree.

The architect has made it sound like we have changed our mind when in fact it is not the job that was designed or we paid for.

We have a baby due in 2 months and a 1 year old at home and they know we are not in s position to delay the build further. Their threat to down tools and additional cost we cannot afford have scared us off pursuing it until we know our rights.

Is there anywhere else in dependent we can get advice?

Latest photo attached.

Thank you
smadd
Original Author
5 years ago
Ps this roof line was supposed to be level with the half line of the sash window in our drawings.
PRO
User
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago
Agreeing with Jonathan as usual.

You don't say how much over the height is. It's not up to the builder or the Architect to say what building control / planning will or will not pass. If the building inspector comes round and says no, it's too high, then he will make you amend it.

I would suggest that as it is their fault that it's higher, then you need to seek advice from the Planning Department first and foremost.

Building Control are quite used to coming out at a moments notice, i'd call them, sooner rather than later.
Anthony (Beano)
5 years ago
Tbh I don’t get this at all, what is the actual issue that the roof has just gained an extra 1 or possibly 2 foot in height? Surly the architect did a survey and accounted for everything, get an explanation as to why it’s higher that the plans show, to me that is possibly a mistake and they are trying to get you to accept it.
smadd
Original Author
5 years ago
15cm they say but they also say it depends where you measure it from.
Won’t we be highlighting a problem with planning that we could potentially be liable for? I don’t know who to approach for independent impartial advice. There have been errors throughout the design which we highlighted but mainly verbally unfortunately , and now there is a problem with the height but that is due to the builders.
We are inexperienced in building projects so genuinely don’t know.
smadd
Original Author
5 years ago
The architect had clearly not considered the impact on the bedroom window and he admitted as much verbally on Friday when we had a site meeting. But he stands by his design and thinks it’s fine.

He said the height has gone over by 15cm or so during the building phase and the design is different but also says it’s not a problem for it to be slightly over the height from a planning perspective.
Anthony (Beano)
5 years ago
WOW! tbh I really don’t know what to say to that, plans are plans, any deviation from them should be easily explained if there is in fact a valid reason for it! Not bringing it up with the planning! Tbh, id want all the t’s crossed and i’s dotted as they say as it could come back to haunt you with a sale or possible neighbour complaint, I’ve been there, bone that when subcontractor on my own build, yes it’s awkward to broach things at times but you have to be firm and not let anyone tell you what your happy with if your not, esp the architect! Depends where you measure from! That’s the best one I’ve heard yet, hope someone can point you in the right direction re the complaints, tbh, it’s sort of a bit late now but possibly if you did get planning or building control in, they could put both the architect and builder on the spot and ask why it’s not built to plan, then you could possibly have a case against them to put all right?
PRO
User
5 years ago
Of course it's an issue Beano, regulations say 4m and it's obscuring the window.

Your rights are:- You've not got what you commissioned and you're not paying for it until it's correct................in a nutshell, however inconvenient it is.
Anthony (Beano)
5 years ago
That sort of came put wrong now I reread it, what I ment was I didn’t know how this is an issue, ie, it’s totally incorrect according to the plans so it needs to be corrected, as said, stick to your guns if unhappy and get planning out.
Anthony (Beano)
5 years ago
Was the architect over seeing the build? Surely he isn’t liable if he only drew the plans, they have deviated and he wasn’t overseeing the build?
J
5 years ago
Great advice from Stuart Hatcher.
If you haven't yet, I'd go back to your original plans and check the height of the roofline to window on the elevations. And compare it to the actual height. As sometimes the new building can be a shock in its scale or location, but when you check, that was pretty much what it was always designed to be.
Good luck with it all. It can be very stressful time.
PRO
User
5 years ago
Agreeing with Stuart Hatcher. If the difference is only 15cm, then from your window perspective it's really not going to make a lot of difference. Going with what Stuart says, get the agreement in writing from the Architect and builder that you have raised the concern, then say nothing to planning.

You could always try asking for a small reduction in price as a gesture of good will.

If it were a big difference 50cm for example, then maybe i'd see that planning wouldn't be happy, but I think the Architect and builder are right, planning will more than likely not be interested.
Anthony (Beano)
5 years ago
Have you elevation plans you can post here?

Design/ Builders dispute

User

Comments (17)

Sam Potter

User

Related Discussions

Jonathan

smadd
Original Author

smadd
Original Author

User

Anthony (Beano)

smadd
Original Author

smadd
Original Author

Anthony (Beano)

User

Anthony (Beano)

Anthony (Beano)

J

User

Anthony (Beano)

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Design/ Builders dispute

Comments (17)

Related Discussions

smaddOriginal Author

smaddOriginal Author

smaddOriginal Author

smaddOriginal Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

smadd
Original Author

smadd
Original Author

smadd
Original Author

smadd
Original Author