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Design DilemmaKitchens
lornarose

Kitchen extension design

lornarose
4 years ago

Hi, we are in the midst of planning a kitchen extension. I like the plans that have been drawn up, however I do feel that it may be a case of trying to squeeze too much in to a relatively small space (the kitchen measure 4.8m x4.6m). The house is listed so we are restricted, however I was thinking maybe the utility could go in the living room/snug. The reception room leads onto the high street, so it can be quite noisey so Im thinking of using that room as a games/play room for the kids. Any ideas? We can't extend any further to make it larger and we are a family of 5. Thank you! Just to clarify, the new extension is from the living room (where the hallway starts) to the bi fold doors.


Featured Answer
  • minnie101
    4 years ago

    Hi Lorna. I'm not sure either plan will work :( In the architects one, 90 is really the minimum gap between island and units although you may find you need more where the dishwasher is as it can be a trip hazard and consider standing behind drawers etc . When the table is pulled out for people to sit at the bench, that only gives 50cm for people to sit either side which is very tight without a walkway. On your plan there's not enough room to the right of the island by eye?

    I'm useless at planning but assuming an island is a must, would it work if you had a dining banquette in the hall/old kitchen? It could be lovely overlooking the courtyard if you plant and light that up? You could then have the kitchen and island (with stools) on the right hand side with maybe a chair in the bottom left and slim sideboard etc. I'd use the middle room as a play room as you can keep an eye on the kids from either room. Maybe storage in thone alcove for coats and toys.

    in terms of the front room, shutters can be good for sound insulation, maybe double tiers so you can open one for light. Fleshy leafed plants and books are also good for sound as are rugs, fabrics etc. Cork is also a very good insulator (IF) there is a way to incorporate it, if you don't have much luck with the architect in terms of kitchen planning then try OnePlan on here, I've used her myself and she is very highly recommended although I also hoped Jonathan on here would pick up your post!

    it may also help to indicate where the SVP is.

    • Comments (30)

    • lornarose
      Original Author
      4 years ago

      heeellllp :( Anyone?

    • lornarose
      Original Author
      4 years ago

      This is my idea, do you think it works better? Im worried that everything is crammed into one space so putting the utility in the 'snug room' makes more sense but now am worried about a toilet being in the snug? I have no idea what Im doing :( any help please!


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    • Mags D
      4 years ago

      Hi Lornarose. I'm of no help I'm afraid but I wanted to bump your post up to see if anyone can. The regulars on here give some amazing ideas, I hope someone can help! x


      lornarose thanked Mags D
    • Danny Jay
      4 years ago

      I would turn the toilet 90 degrees anticlockwise and move the door to the hall way. Make the utility room a little smaller. Put the kitchen units on the opposite wall and dining area on a long table where the units are currently. Should leave enough space for a settee in the alcove next to utility room.

      lornarose thanked Danny Jay
    • lornarose
      Original Author
      4 years ago
      last modified: 4 years ago


      Thank you so much Daniel! Are you commenting on the first plan? Or my plan?! I'd love to see a mock up as I can't imagine it? Are you saying put the kitchen units on the wall where my back door is? Its not clear on the second plan that the dining table looks straight out through bi folds to the courtyard beyond, so I was thinking it would be nice to have the dining table there. I took inspiration from this photo but obviously would only have kitchen units down one side. I completely agree about having the door from the kitchen to the utility/wc, not sure if that will get through planning though. Thanks so much for your comment!

    • Danny Jay
      4 years ago

      Hi Lorna. I am looking at the first plan as the second plan makes the living area too small and the kitchen too big. You need some balance. I would put the units on the right hand side and if that is a door at the top, I would block it up.



      lornarose thanked Danny Jay
    • PRO
      i-architect
      4 years ago

      It's really difficult to comment on this to help you without knowing a lot more information.


      The design that you have had drawn seems to offer a lot and while the kitchen and dining spaces are larger in your second version they don't seem as sophisticated in the sense that they don't resolve as many typical home use issues as the original does, or not in as elegant a way.


      It can be quite tricky to work with a listed building, so it's also difficult to help you in this kind of forum without knowing or understanding the building very well because listed buildings are typically inherently complex so it would be difficult to give you simple answers to resolve your layout.


      You could explore other layout options such as turning you noisy reception room into the kitchen and making the whole of the space to the rear into more of a dining and lounge space, perhaps with a separating zone with the utility room and WC that might create a small internal hallway that could also incorporate cloaks storage etc...


      You need to ask yourself a lot more questions about what you need from the space and how you want to use it. This can sometimes be difficult to do but it's the only way to get a successful project.


      Decide what kinds of space you need for your family of 5 and how you want to use them, what adjacencies will work for you, etc... If you can then it might be worth looking for a holiday home that has a similar layout to your favourite option that you could test out living in for a weekend break. It's cheaper to go away for the weekend and try it out than go through the effort, pain and expense of building the changes to your home only to discover that they don't work for you!


      Best of luck with your project and keep us updated.


      If you'd find it helpful you can get my free Design Your Home Vision Checklist to help you with some of the initial decision making here: https://bit.ly/2P1quQ6

      lornarose thanked i-architect
    • lornarose
      Original Author
      4 years ago
      last modified: 4 years ago


      Thank you, theres is another main living room off the snug which is large (6.6m x 5.4m), which isn't on my plan (sorry!) That was my first initial thought with the first plan as I thought that as I have a large living room and a large 'snug' that the kitchen utility/wc area is quite small in comparison...

    • lornarose
      Original Author
      4 years ago

      Thank you i-architect, you can tell the first plan is done by a professional and my one is pants! I think I was just worried that the dining table is a bit of a squeeze with the island. I am going to talk to my architect this week to see what he says too. Thanks so much for your comments they are very helpful!


    • lornarose
      Original Author
      4 years ago

      Thank you Minnie! I think you're right, I've attached another mock up but it would mean that from the back door you walk straight into the open plan dining room, is that weird? But this would give us loads of storage for all the kids crafts etc as well as kitchen stuff. I practically live at my dining table playing with the kids so I think its important to be able to have one where Im not squashed! Id love to see a drawing of what you were thinking. Im def going to put shutters in the front room thats a great idea and have loads of plants etc. I had that all before (our house burnt down thats why we are having to redo everything!)



    • lornarose
      Original Author
      4 years ago

      Ps what is SVP?! I can only think soil and vent pipe? Where the utility is in the plan is where our old kitchen was (the 'snug' was the old kitchen) so Im assuming all pipework would be ok... Id like the snug to be used as a sung as its the darkest room in the house and it has a lovely fireplace (the main front reception doesn't have a fireplace although Im working on getting one!).

    • minnie101
      4 years ago

      Omg, poor you. It does feel a bit strange the only back door being in the dining room, maybe a change of plan then. What are the dimensions of the "hall", I assume it's 11ft wide but could you confirm the exact length? I'm just thinking you could have a rectangular table to increase circulation space. Maybe add another door into the kitchen from the courtyard. Change the main kitchen run back to the left but have any tall appliances by the bifolds so the view from dining to kitchen isn't restricted. Do you really need that much extra storage if you're putting it in the snug? On the rhs side, maybe a tall larder by the bifolds and then just have base units with a coffee station on top or something! You would obviously need to leave a few feet for the new kitchen door.

      As I say though, am useless at planning, hope that makes sense. If not I can draw it out by hand (not to scale!!). I think you'd probably needs doors into the snug too

      lornarose thanked minnie101
    • Danny Jay
      4 years ago
      I think the latest plan is the best option. Be very careful how you layout the kitchen units, appliances and the island unit. You only get one chance to get it right and ergonomics are far more important than aesthetics.
      lornarose thanked Danny Jay
    • lornarose
      Original Author
      4 years ago

      Thank you both, here's a mock up with the dimensions of the 'hall' its quite small!

      My round table could be a bit smaller I suppose, I don't mind when its not used to push it to one side if needs be, it does only leave 60cm room around it and the table diameter is 160cm...

    • lornarose
      Original Author
      4 years ago

      Ive just moved the back door down a bit, gives a bit more space (don't know why I didn't do that before!)


    • PRO
      i-architect
      4 years ago

      Yes the SVP is the soil vent pipe. This is usually the most tricky part of the waste water side of things to deal with. There are quite a lot of requirements to meet with the SVP to make sure that it doesn't get backed up or fill with methane etc! Back in the days when people didn't know so much about dealing with waste from toilets they would occasionally get explosions from the methane build up!! Just make sure you can plumb into the waste system with your WC, with the necessary falls along the pipe and there is the required venting outlet to get that working OK.


      This latest layout looks better. Some more questions for your to consider:


      Would you really want to use the snug in that way?

      What do you normally use the snug for now?

      Will you change the way you use the snug?

      What do the kitchen windows look out to? A garden?

      Would you prefer to be able to sit and look into the courtyard or to look out the back?

      Do you have a favourite view that you want to make the most of or is there a kind of view that you love that you could create either in the courtyard or out the back?


      lornarose thanked i-architect
    • minnie101
      4 years ago

      I agree aesthetically that a round table looks good with the vertical lines but that's still tight, imagine carrying a laundry basket etc through and it's a big table and a lot of chairs to be moving when not in use? Ignoring the kitchen run and island, I've added up about 28ft of storage in the kitchen and snug, presumably you also have some under the stairs and you will have some in the utility. Do you really need that as it could be quite overpowering, are these tall or base units? I don't think you'll fit 5 stools on the island, you may squeeze 4 on one side and one on the end btw. Personally I'd also lose the drainer for more worktop space with bin one side of the sink and DW the other. I hope that doesn't sound negative, just attempting to help :)

      lornarose thanked minnie101
    • lornarose
      Original Author
      4 years ago

      Thank you for these questions they're invaluable! We've never had a snug before, its used to be our kitchen and I always hated that the fireplace was in the kitchen and we didn't have one in the living room so Im imagining cozying up around the fire with a nice glass of wine! The snug is the darkest room of the house and also quieter than the front room which will have the kids toys in, couches, tv, games etc in. The snug is my adult relaxing room :) (I hope) it looks out to a small courtyard which I will fill with plants and lighting. The kitchen looks out to a larger courtyard with seating and pizza oven etc. The house doesn't have the best views, we live on a high street and look out on to lovely old buildings at the front and at the back courtyard areas and we have a detached larger garden which you can't see from the house (bit strange!)


    • lornarose
      Original Author
      4 years ago

      Thanks Minnie, I think the laundry basket thing should be ok I've just mocked it up in my kitchen and tried it out! :) I chose a big table as we have 5 people in our family and would like to accommodate further guests but maybe I could get an extendable table and keep the extra chairs somewhere else (garage!). I was thinking of a wall of tall units as I have a lot of stuff! Materials, sewing machines, papers, craft stuff, paints, etcas well as coat and shoe cupboard, somewhere for school bags, hoover, mop. We don't have nay storage under the stairs at the moment (could do though! I like the idea but it would make the room feel smaller... hmm). Love the idea of losing the drainer, will def do that and having a cupboard bin is a winner. Thank you! Heres a pic of the tall units I was thinking.


    • minnie101
      4 years ago

      You sound like you're describing something similar to my road! So if the kids are going in the front room (are they of an age where you need to watch them from the kitchen btw?), would it make sense to put storage for crafts etc in there? Do you also use that as your main entrance re coat storage, school bags etc, just thinking what would be more practical as you come in/out? I personally would go for an extending table, chairs can always be used in bedrooms too (or stacked in one of your cupboards, lol!).

      i do like the tall storage btw, if you did go for that option, I might make the run shorter and keep those just units in the wall colour or similar maybe so they don't visually fill the room?

      the courtyard is a good size so as long as you don't block light into the snug I think it could be very pretty


      lornarose thanked minnie101
    • lornarose
      Original Author
      4 years ago

      Thanks Minnie, Im getting excited about it all now! Seeing the architect tomorrow, hoping he likes the new plans....

    • minnie101
      4 years ago

      That's good. Lol, I'm sure it should be the other way round :) The other thing I'd say is consider the roof light position if you want pendants on the island. The WC looks to be about the minimum length required, you need at least 35cm standing space in front of the loo so look for a loo that doesn't project far and same with the sink or consider a corner one. Good luck for tomorrow!

      lornarose thanked minnie101
    • lornarose
      Original Author
      4 years ago

      Thanks Minnie thats all good to know!

    • lornarose
      Original Author
      4 years ago

      Just found a table that fits the space better and when extended can have more people than the circular one, yay! Thanks for the suggestion Minnie!

      And Ive put less units down the left hand side :)

    • PRO
      i-architect
      4 years ago

      I agree with Minnie! It should definitely be your architect worrying about showing you a plan you like and not the other way around! If your architect is not coming up with creative solutions for you then maybe you would be better off looking for one who does. If they are capable of giving you creative solutions then I would recommend that you spend your time thinking about what you love to do and the kinds of space that you would love to have to support yours and your families life and then tell that to the architect and let them worry about creating a layout that will work for you and that you will love... unless you are enjoying the fun of playing around with layouts and in that case keep going! Another fun way to play with layouts is to do it on paper and cut out all the furniture you want to scale on different coloured pieces of paper and then move them around the floor plan until you like what you see... take photos each time you reach an interesting solution. :)

    • lornarose
      Original Author
      4 years ago

      Thanks Im really happy with the plans so far, and the architect is on board too (lol). Fingers crossed it gets through planning now!

    • PRO
      Italian Kitchen Studio
      4 years ago
      Daniel is totally right about your extension plans
    • Jo@homeinWiltshire
      4 years ago

      HI Lornarose

      I prefer the original plan for the following reasons -

      • If you move the kitchen to the middle section you will end up with a corridor kitchen. I have a corridor kitchen which one must walk through to get to the dog-leg dining room, and I hate it. When my children were young they were going backwards and forwards through the kitchen. Now they are adult (and the same applies to guests too) and want to chat with me while I'm cooking, everyone stands in the corridor kitchen and gets in my way. When they realise they are in my way they go and into the sitting room and I end up stuck in the kitchen on my own.
      • If you put the dining room or snug in the middle section, those rooms will too end up as a corridor, they will become a means of passing through to the kitchen at the end of the house and you may find you no longer use the space. Do you want to be walking past your dining room table/sofa to get to the kitchen?
      • In your original plan the middle space is used for what it is - a corridor - which also usefully houses the services and gets them out of the way of the other rooms and it also gives access to the courtyard. When someone walks into the kitchen/diner then they can turn one way for the kitchen or the other way for the dining room, or past the island to the back doors. There is no need for anyone, apart from the cook, to go into the kitchen area although kids being kids they will do so. I think the design gives you the best layout for dividing the kitchen and dining space in the most practical and user friendly way.
      • Re: the sitting room at the front of the house - in the space you suggested for the cloakroom and laundry you could build a massive, walk-in toy cupboard where you can chuck everything at the end of the day and the space becomes a grown-up space. When the children are older you can take out the cupboard and use the space for something else.

      Why not print off the different plans and draw on lines to indicate the movement of traffic through the spaces.

    • lornarose
      Original Author
      4 years ago

      Thanks for you interest Emma, Ive had a long think about how we as a family use the kitchen/diner and am really happy with the last one that's been drawn up with oval table. I spend most of my time at the dining table with the kids, playing games, arts, crafts, play doh, jigsaws etc so really need a space which will accommodate that. The first plan would mean I would need to pull out the table and squeeze past the island, I just don't think its practical. Im currently renting a house where I have to walk through the dining room into the kitchen and I don't have a problem with this. Putting the utility and wc into the snug space (which is already a large space) means I have more space for the kitchen/diner and still have plenty of room for the snug (and we have the larger living room off this as well). I envision guests coming in through the back door, nibbles at the island, dinner at the table then walk through to the snug after. No need to go into the living room which will be full of toys and which I can shut the door to ahhhh! Lovely :)

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