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Design DilemmaExteriorsGardens
chloe5268

Patio advice and ideas please

Chloe
4 years ago

Hi there.


We have undergone a pretty substantial renovation on our house, however the patio is in need of some TLC. We're really happy with how the house looks now, but feel like the patio lets it down.

I have attached some photos of the outside (mostly old photos), and one of the inside too, to try and give an idea of what it's all like, hope this helps. I would welcome any ideas on layout, what would be be best to use for patio stones, and just any help or advice in general. At the moment, it's not safe for our 2 young boys, so we need to look at an alternative for the balustrade too! Oh, and the fountain thing in the centro of it, has to go! We would prefer to keep the steps to both sides too as it keeps them out of the way.


Thanks in advance.









Featured Answer
  • Sonia
    4 years ago

    I wouldn’t bother with a wooden deck - they have a limited lifespan and get slippery when it rains. Not sure of your budget, but how about sawn sandstone? It has a smooth top and sides and looks very contemporary. Comes in loads of colours too. Composite decking is also an option, but I do think you get what you pay for, and some of the cheaper ones look very plastic. There is also outdoor porcelain which is popular. in an ideal world I think really wide gradual steps from the patio down to the lower garden would look amazing, but obviously not cheap. Heres some ideas


    Sandstone



    Porcelain


    Composite deck


    Comments (39)

    • PRO
      Brandler London
      4 years ago

      A good wood decking would work marvels with the aesthetics of your exterior imho.

      Chloe thanked Brandler London
    • Chloe
      Original Author
      4 years ago

      Thanks for your advice. We are looking for as low maintenance as possible, and I know composite decking would potentially work, but I'm not too sure. Thanks again.

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      If replacing your patio is not something you want to consider, see if you can hire a Karcher hot washer from your local Hire shop and ask if they have a weed lance attachment for like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPH0qs_jKUA Research in Belgium has shown this to be one of the most efficient chemical free weed treatments for paving. If they don't have the special lance, the normal lance will do but turn the pressure down as you don't want to blast the mortar out from between the slabs. The temperature setting needs to be 95C at least. Looking at what you have there, it is the original old ex-council crazy paving, there is no sign of subsidence in the photos, so the substrate is good and well laid, it should last for decades. As councils no longer use these heavy slabs, as far as I know this material is no longer available but they were made to last.
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      I had that on my sandstone paving after installation and I was told it’s efflorescence and that it would go, and it did! I didn’t use any chemicals, just time and a bit of rain. There is a brilliant website called www.pavingexpert.com which has lots of useful paving information, including an article on efflorescence. Hope this helps!
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    • PRO
      Brandler London
      4 years ago

      @chloe - there are some great composite systems available but take care with what you choose as this is another example of "you get what you pay for".

      Chloe thanked Brandler London
    • mii2
      4 years ago
      It’s a big space, so the previous owners used the fountain to try to break it up from being a vast area of repeating square stones. I think it would look great sectioned into zones maybe with the use of a pergola to define the seating area and get some plant height with climbers. Also using planting beds to break up the stones eg a herb garden to supply the kitchen and also an area for your rabbit or Guinea pig (?) that offers protection from the weather in summer and winter and has built in storage for hay, foods etc ( that could be reused for hose storage or bbq kit post pets). The pergola needs to not block your view of the rest of your garden from your favourite position inside the house but could be positioned to give privacy from neighbours.
      On a practical note, the raised flower bed near on the house wall is sitting above the height of the air blocks in the house wall - it would be prudent to remove when renovating. Also in this corner is the down pipe for the gutter but it seems that you have no access to the drain as it is within the flower bed. This could be worth opening up to allow you clear any future blockage from moss off the roof and to give you a point to get rid of water from the patio. These were previous issues we have dealt with!
      Good luck!
    • mii2
      4 years ago
      Oh forgot to say - definitely reuse your current stones if possible - your children will find it hard to whizz about on their ride on if on decking and it does need yearly upkeep if not composite. The cost of getting rid of all those stones will be high, so it’s a double hit for your budget if replacing. You could remove some to allow more planting and zoning and use the lifted ones to break up the red and grey stripes.
      Chloe thanked mii2
    • Chloe
      Original Author
      4 years ago

      Thank you all. I really like the idea of porcelain, and hopefully that's what we will end up with as I've read it will take the least amount of effort to maintain, but I also realise it's not the cheapest option either. I think what I'm looking for is a big space for the boys to play with go-karts, scooter etc. I'm also not sure what to do with regards to balustrades as I thought glass would be best, but not sure of the up keep. I just need to be able to see through it so it doesn't block off the garden from inside the house.

    • PRO
      Brandler London
      4 years ago

      Chloe, Forzaitalia has a good option in terms of natural stone and personally I would always use that option over porcelain for the exterior. Even "non-slip" porcelain tiles can be slippery in the rain and they are far easier to damage. Natural stone is a great idea and there are a lot of very good stones available from India these days. You can also find suppliers who can provide stone cut into patterns for larger area which can be incorporated into your overall design. This website gives some good examples of what is available - https://www.stone-traders.co.uk/product-category/paving-and-stone-products/

    • Carol Cameron
      4 years ago
      Great looking house. Would definitely use the sandstone tiles to give a more contemporary look,
    • Chloe
      4 years ago
      Thanks a lot. I was under the impression that porcelain involved the least amount of maintenance, but I didn’t know about it being slippery. I will definitely go and look into sandstone, thanks!
    • Chloe
      4 years ago
      Thanks Carol. We’re really happy how it’s turned out, just need to add the homely touches now (and sort the outside!).
    • PRO
      Brandler London
      4 years ago

      Don't limited yourself to sandstone Chloe as there are a lot of other beautiful natural stone whose cost is very reasonable.... limestone for example

      Chloe thanked Brandler London
    • Chloe
      Original Author
      4 years ago

      Brandler London - Thank you. Would you say that natural stone are more high maintenance than porcelain?


    • Juliet Docherty
      4 years ago
      last modified: 4 years ago

      My sister had a large patio that was raised like this. When she re-vamped she changed the shape to add interest and put in full width steps. It made a beautiful statement. Also used lovely purple mottled slate which is very forgiving.


    • Chloe
      Original Author
      4 years ago

      Wow Colourhappy, that is beautiful. The only problem is that is is quite a steep drop from the patio to the grass, with a retaining wall so we would have to 'eat in' to quite a bit of the patio, and quite a bit of the grass too. We've just received a quote back to just replace the patio stones with porcelain, and change nothing else, and it was £16k...and that didn't include the balustrade.

    • Sonia
      4 years ago

      Chloe your patio is enormous but that price seems a bit steep. Worth getting a couple more quotes and, if possible, use someone recommended to you? My sandstone patio, which is pretty small compared to yours, was approx £900 for materials and approx £1000 for taking up the old paving and laying the new. It measures approx 10ft x 40ft in old money.



    • PRO
      Brandler London
      4 years ago

      Chloe, the maintenance of natural stone is very simple and it will weather naturally. You may have some issue with algae or black spot, but this is easily removed with a chemical treatment that you can buy from any garden centre.


      My issues with porcelain in our climate is that it can crack and can be easily damaged if something is dropped on it. Also I suspect that you can get a better price for the installed stone than you an for a good porcelain.


      Personally I think that it would be far more in keeping with your lovely house and garden.


      Chloe thanked Brandler London
    • PRO
      LLD SLATE Ltd
      4 years ago

      Good Afternoon. We have in stock Welsh slate paving. 400mm x 400mm or 300mm x 300mm.

      Riven / Riven finish with thickness around 13mm nominal.

      The price is for £35 + VAT per m2.

      If we can help please contact me or visit our web site.

      www.lldslate.com

      lldslate@btinternet.com


      Thank you

    • gemm_thomas
      4 years ago

      Hi Chloe, we used sawn Indian stone and it seems great so far. Nice and smooth for scooter riding but not slippy (had hardwood decking in last house and swore never again!) It does get the odd stain from bird poo but won't be losing sleep over it. A jet wash seems to sort most marks out. We paid a lot less than your quote for a fairly large area so probably worth asking a few more companies

      Chloe thanked gemm_thomas
    • Anthony (Beano)
      4 years ago
      Hi many square meters are you taking about and what length is your run of ballastrade?
    • Chloe
      4 years ago
      last modified: 4 years ago

      Hi Beano - it's approximately 115m2 area of patio stones and approximately 12m of glass balustrade.

    • Anthony (Beano)
      4 years ago
      Just to give you some perspective, I’ve just ordered 85m2 of Italian porcelain tiles, 1200x600mm 20mm thick, I’m putting them on a raised support system, for the system and tiles it’s £6000 inc vat, I’m paying it myself as it’s quite straightforward, just heavy going is all, Ive also 15 mm thick glass (toughened) coming for the back of the patio, 6.5m wide, coming in four sections with a channel that runs (fixed via rail bolts) along the top of the wall that it slots into, so its effectively four self standing glass sheets! They are being delivered from england to me in Northern Ireland for £2000 inc vat.

      16k for just the tiles laid (if I read it correctly) does seem excessive to me if I’m honest.
      Chloe thanked Anthony (Beano)
    • Chloe
      Original Author
      4 years ago

      Thanks Beano. It was £16k for the tiles and the work involved to lay them, if that's what you meant, but I still think it's a little on the high side. Waiting for a couple more quotes, so will be in a better place to see once the other quotes come in. Everything up my way seems to be very expensive compare to some other areas!


    • PRO
      LLD SLATE Ltd
      4 years ago

      Hi Chloe. How many m2 do you need to cover? re you interested in Welsh slate? Out of all the tiles and slabs that have been mentioned above by far the Welsh slate is the best material.

      Thank you

      www.lldslate.com

      lldslate@btinternet.com

    • Monica
      4 years ago

      Sorry Chloe, I hope you will forgive me for hijacking your thread for my own benefit..

      @beano can you please share which raised system did you go for in the end please? I need to think of a solution for our patio once reno is finished and going round in circles.

    • Jane Wright
      4 years ago
      Not sure if this helps. A link to my post on Houzz with before and after pictures. We had the marshalls symphony vitrified Slabs laid as low maintenance. Decided to invest as we were only doing it once. The cost was not as bad as I thought and we are over the moon with the results.

      https://www.houzz.co.uk/discussions/patio-problem-dsvw-vd~4067470
    • Anthony (Beano)
      4 years ago
      @monica, it’s the ryno pave support system that I’m using, it has fixed and an flex he’d system, I’m going for the adjustable fixed (level) head one as my sub base is quite flat, it’s not cheap but it looks very handy to lay the tiles using them! I was in a roof terrace in Italy that used them on the whole roof, it’s was great, 2mm gaps for the rain to drain, no grout needed meaning you can lay it level, Im eve covering my drains with the tiles as they will float above them, just have a square hole to cut for the pipe to go through and that’s that!
    • Chloe
      4 years ago
      Hi Jane. Thank you for adding that. I had already seen your post, for inspiration as that’s the tiles we’re looking at, it looks great! Can I be cheeky and ask approximately how much it cost for all the work involved? No bother though if you’d rather not say.

      Thanks for posting!
    • Jane Wright
      4 years ago
      It was about £8k
    • Chloe
      4 years ago
      Gosh, we’ve been quotes £16k just for the cost of the patio and installation...that maybe seems a bit high!
    • Jane Wright
      4 years ago
      We had quotes from £6k to £20k! We went with sg landscapes as Steph measured up properly and obviously knew his stuff. He had a nearly 12 month waiting list and I had stalked him to check his work out. They were amazing and a supplemented them with lemon drizzle cake. A year in and the work is still perfect. Shop around is my advice.
    • Emily O'Byrne
      4 years ago

      Just keep in mind that all paving needs some maintenance, powerhosing is the best way to clean it and you can also get a product which keeps the alge from going down into the stone. Sandstone is soft and layers can come off during cleaning. It happens when power washer gets under a layer or two, not the end of the world though

    • Chloe
      4 years ago
      Thanks Emily. Is this the case with porcelain too?
    • Emily O'Byrne
      4 years ago
      I have no idea but as they are manufactured I'd say they wouldn't flake. The Indian Sandstone is a natural stone and there can be many interesting fossils in the slabs of ferns and other plants.
    • Jane Wright
      4 years ago
      Vitrified tiles take a lot less maintenance as not porous, less moisture retention therefore less algal growth. Ask about the porosity of the material you are selecting to get an indication of maintenance.
      Chloe thanked Jane Wright
    • rach1922
      4 years ago

      I was told that sandstone imported from India exploits child labour, I have no reason to disbelieve him. I am not sure where abouts in the country you are but look to local stone /products for a more authentic and carbon footprint. ?.

    • Sonia
      4 years ago

      @rach1922 - you are quite right that people harvesting Indian sandstone were exploited, as well as the use of child labour. For this very reason many UK suppliers have installed their own staff in their own quarries to ensure this does not happen. So basically there are companies who have total control to ensure the Stone is ethically harvested, such as Marshall’s, London Stone etc. I used Global Stone who supply many builders merchants. Sadly, we as a society exploit many people in many countries so that we can enjoy cheap clothing etc. It’s a minefield.

    • rach1922
      4 years ago

      Also why ship stuff halfway round the world when we have our own sustainable products ?

    • Sonia
      4 years ago

      Comes down to price I suppose.........

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