Self build living space design help

4 years ago

We are self building a family home (3 kids, 2 dogs) but I'm really stuck for how best to design our kitchen/dining/living room. The designs we have from our architect don't really cover the kitchen properly - he always said he wasn't a kitchen designer so he's designed the space for us to plan. However I'm in such a dilemma - I keep going forward and back with different ideas and feel like I've lost what we actually want!

Attached is the architect plan, we are building an upside down house - bedrooms downstairs, living rooms upstairs because we get great views out of the upstairs windows. It has a vaulted ceiling and very large windows. My uncertainty is about the larder area as well as the utility room and the effect they have on the rest of the space. We have already decided not to have the small stairs coming up into the utility room (should be renamed as plant room) which means we can shorten that room as we're not losing the floor space. I like the idea of a larder space, but not what this arrangement does to the over space in the room. It was only after I drew it in sketch up that I realised it makes the room feel narrow and loses cuts off the spacious roof. I don't like the fridge being there as it blocks the door to outside and I think will be annoying with kids coming through while cooking etc.

So my question is does anybody have any suggestions to how to make this area 'work' a bit better. I'm really open to getting rid of that larder altogether and just having the space opened up with, but feel like I'm going in circles with what would work - it's hard to visualise without standing in the space!

The external things - walls, windows, doors etc are already fixed, but internal things can change.

I'd like to have an island prefereably with seating for the kids, a big fridge freezer, wide induction hob, oven, dishwasher if possible not having wall cupboards would be nice, but could be persuaded,

I'm not sure what order the pictures will show so the one with the green background is my latest idea but I haven't fully resolved details like the hob and oven location.

Any suggestions will be very gratefully received!

Thanks very much

Featured Answer

minnie101

4 years ago

Another recommendation for Karen @ OnePlan even more so if you're going back and forwards as she can show you a few ideas.

Everything really seems set in stone bar the plant room? There also looks to be stairs on the gable end which I assume you need for letting the dogs out? My (very non-pro!) comments on your green plan. I'd reduce the plant room depth to 1500 and the gap between the island and units to 1200. I'd access the plant room from the larder end so lose the corner cupboard. I'd put the oven at the end of the sink run and just use shelves to balance the gap between the oven and window. It means losing the window seat however just thinking it would actually work better for extra seating in the living room? I'd go for a smaller hob and have it on the island away from the stools with a downdraft extractor. The living space is a little tight but assuming you're having a tv I'd hang it against the play room wall then chose a slim chaise sofa without arms so it doesn't visually close the space off coming up the stairs. I know sofa arms shouldn't normally overlap but I think it works with window seats. You may also be able to fit a small accent chair in the left corner next to the tv and then have a sideboard on the plant room wall for extra storage.

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Comments (19)

Maths Wife
4 years ago
I'm definitely no expert..........but I can see what you mean about the boxes. I'd put the larder and the utility at the end against the gable, and take the walls right to the apex, when looking at it then, you won't see a box.

I think the Playroom is too large, and I think you could also retrieve some space back there, by pushing that room plus the study / guest room back a bit, but that's your choice.

Something like this:-
Hilary
Original Author
4 years ago
Thanks Maths Wife, it’s really useful to have some ‘Fresh eyes’ looking at it.

The playroom and spare room have a mezzanine space above to create another space for storage and for guests, and the playroom will become a kind of snug as the kids grow up, with the Tv in there.

Having the plant room in the middle like this makes the plumbing cheaper as it’s shorter to get downstairs to the bathrooms. I did try drawing it with the plant room at the end but it made it a funny space with the stairs coming through the middle, but maybe I should revisit that...

Thank you that’s given me some things to think about!
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I often place the sofa in the corner that offers the longest view of the space, so the space may feel bigger when you are sat there (usually that's where most people spend most time. The flat is a bit awkward in the sense that on one end is the entrance, and the other is the side of the kitchen. So, one idea would be to remove the entry door and place the sofa against that wall. This would open up the space massively. It would also be a nice vantage point for looking out the window, and what's going on in the kitchen. I would then suggest a large bookcase on the other wall to add texture and a place to have books, plants and personal touches. This could frame a little dining table nicely. The dining table could be centered to the smaller window, giving a nice view and it's always handy having it close to the kitchen, so guests can chat to whoever's cooking. Lastly, rather than a TV stand/cabinet that would cut the space in half, a wall mounted TV bracket that allows the TV to swing out when in use, may be a good solution. Hope this helps! Sandra
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Agree with going for the pocket doors. You may likely have to build out the wall so the pockets have something to recess into, otherwise you could go for Japanese style sliding doors that slide along the face of the wall. I personally don't think you have the space for that large a dining table, it's too wide. As others as suggested I'd replace with a extendable table. I've done 2 layouts, option 1 with your 1m wide table, option 2 with a 80cm wide table and a bench. It doesn't quite meet the 1m clearance rule but it gives you more wiggle room. OPTION 1 OPTION 2 Couple of links I thought were relevant - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grwHG9SDkRs&ab_channel=NEVERTOOSMALLNEVERTOOSMALLVerified https://www.houzz.co.uk/magazine/houzz-tour-a-tired-flat-gets-a-light-and-space-boosting-layout-stsetivw-vs~113120675
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Jonathan
4 years ago
I also don’t like what building the utility and pantry do to the proportions of the room and you loose some of the drama of the entrance by kind of closing in the stairs.
I also wonder if there is enough living space in relation to bedroom space which likely feels more so as the dining area doesn’t have its own window.
If it were me I would put a laundry room near the bedrooms, find room in the kitchen for extra storage and a freezer and get rid of the pantry in favour of a pantry cupboard from your kitchen unit supplier.
I might also question if you will fully use bedroom 5 and whether you might be better having a playroom/ bedroom with some multi purpose furniture and then lending some space to the main living room. I think I would move the stairs to the mezzanine out of the bedroom too.
Hilary
Original Author
4 years ago
Thanks Jonathan, there is already a Laundry cupboard downstairs so the plant room has all heating and ventilation equipment as it’s a passive house so there’s quite a lot of that.

The wall of the playroom/ guest room is already built so that can’t be moved. The stairs going up to the mezzanine are going to be like a bookshelf so can be against the wall

Yes I know what you mean about the dining space not having its own window but the other 2 in that space are really big so I think it should be light

Thanks for looking at this
acew1234
4 years ago
Do you need the sink in the plant room if you have a utility space downstairs? Can you push everything against the wall so create a large plant cupboard which wouldn't impact the room so much.
PRO
OnePlan
4 years ago
This is the sort of project we often work on with clients ... we have a few plans of various set ups on our pro page if you want to have a flick through - night give you some ideas. Click on my name or icon to get there .
Carolina
4 years ago
I wanted to recommend OnePlan to you, but I see she's already found your dilemma :-)

She did the drawings for our kitchen design and made a 3D version too, which made it easy to see how things would work out in the space. We could virtually stand in the kitchen and get a real feeling for how it looked and felt. But even without that 3D version, I think it's good to get a professional kitchen designer/space planner on board to get the best out of your build. Looks like it's going to be a fabulous home.

Good luck with your build.
PRO
OnePlan
4 years ago
Ah - thank you Carolina x
PRO
Studio O+U Architects
4 years ago
Hilary

Some food for thought...

I think the question one needs to reflect upon in these lovely open plan spaces. Is how much clutter can they live with. If we want a clean, sophisticated looking space with lots of light and every thing in it's place ... then storage is actually a must.

Utility rooms and larders ( let's call it an additional storage space rather than a larder in this case ), help us to keep the open plan living spaces apparently neat and tidy. Be it an open plan kitchen, dining area or living space.

Volumetrically one could certainly start to align the "storage" zones along the gable end wall and this would be a great way of perceiving the true volume of the roof and outlook in one direction.

I would be careful, in terms of added cost and frustration, as you have mentioned certain external elements are fixed. Re-organising the spaces as noted above could and probably and will effective the servicing strategy but more importantly you may end up with some very awkward junctions between the new walls and the fixed windows and doors. Or can the external fenestration of the project be altered too? ( which would resolve the issue)

This would give you a centralised living space with the play area to one side ( possibly move the guest bedroom down stairs and increase the living area ) and the kitchen/ dining area at the opposite end. The kitchen could then occupy the full width of the gable end and have a central island and behind this one could conceal and create a storage zone ( for the larder and plant room) say circa 1.65 m wide min

One of the other reasons why clients and architects design upside down houses is usually to take advantage of the " sometimes stunning views" over the landscape. So I also think it's really worth weighing this up in terms of what one gains and one looses in re-planning the space.

In my humble opinion, if I had really good views on two adjacent sides of the house, that would probably be the driver and the key value adding element to the project - rather than the asymmetry of the internal volume alone.

It's worth also remembering with the amount of glazing shown on the plans you will have very good visual continuity between the internal and external spaces.
PRO
Studio O+U Architects
4 years ago
Hilary Hi

You could do something like this?

Having quickly looked at this the planning freedom is quite limited by the windows and you may not want to loose that beautiful view from the side windows ( plan East)... and the exit to the lower garden.

Most spaces in their layouts are asymmetrical (windows on one side of a room, entry from one side etc) so as I mentioned before don't let this be the main driver of your design decision.

Also I would run changes like this under the nose of your structural engineer.

Hope this helps

Best David

Studio O+U Architects
Hilary
Original Author
4 years ago
Thanks everyone for all your suggestions. That’s a very good point about the open plan living reality of clutter vs minimalist, and definitely something I haven’t quite got sorted yet in my head!

I feel like this is such a central part of this house that we need to get it right, but it’s really hard to visualise before we get it built.

Plenty to go away and think about

Thanks Hilary
Hilary
Original Author
4 years ago
After much umming and ahhing, and talking with Karen @oneplan I have come up with this. (After about a dozen other options!) It’s drawn in the IKEA Planner which can’t do the high ceiling, but is pretty easy to use. I feel like it has better flow and is more joined up than my previous ideas and keeps the big utility room but hopefully with the tall units against the middle wall it won’t feel too cut off. Anyway I just thought I’d update this thread with where I’ve got to as I’ve found these discussions so useful when coming up with ideas. I’ll get it drawn in sketch up and see what it looks like, but does anyone have any major concerns/ comments at this point!?

We’ve ended up having to move the house along about 8m (!) due to onsite problems so I think the back door off the kitchen will actually less used, so I’m not too worried about it being right in the middle of the kitchen.
Jonathan
4 years ago
I’m confused.... isn’t this room supposed to be your living room too?
Separately the 1.8m gap between the hob run and the window seems like wasted space.
Also... Is there an argument to swap the kitchen door and window so that you can have a longer sink run that goes into the pantry area?
Jonathan
4 years ago
Like this?
rinked
4 years ago
I'm a little confused too, as it says 'sitting dining kitchen' on your floorplan. :)

Lovely layout though (you posted yesterday), but can the sink be moved?

Here's some fun I had, with the kitchen being the heart of the space (and with some sofas).

The main reason I moved the kitchen (if even possible at all at this stage) is because there are so many doors and a landing when walking in, I'd rather have the dining table there than a lounge.

But I guess I'm joining in a bit too late?
PRO
OnePlan
4 years ago
Hi !
Yes - wasn’t this supposed to be lounge too?? We suggested shrinking plant room and having a twin island kitchen, then went back to larger plant room and std island kitchen ...
Hilary
Original Author
4 years ago
Yes sorry I should have said that one of the things Karen pointed out was that it was a tricky space to try and get all three functions into and we might be better to have it as a kitchen dining room, with a couple of small armchairs/ playing space.

That’s what i think will happen with the space in front of the window by the kitchen because it’s a window seat so I think with a rug and maybe ladder style storage shelves at the end of the sink run with an armchair or two between the big windows. The play room will become more of a living room.

It means we can have the dining space in front of the full height window. We look into the Lake District fells so get really good views.

And yes I think with hindsight it might have been better to rearrange the back door/ window but it’s now too expensive to change anything like that. So we’ve got to go with what we’ve got!
rinked
4 years ago
It will fit in just fine :) Here's a 3m island:

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