Where to start for our house renovation - help! ;(

4 years ago

Hello all,

We got great advises on the board in the past and I hope you would be able to help us again :) many thanks in advance.

I am sure this question has probably been asked before but I cannot find answers so apologise if that is the case.

To give you a bit of background...

We bough our house a few years ago now - it is quite an old house (1920s/30s) which was renovated and extended in the 1980s. It has a lots of 1980s "features" like huge brick fireplaces and artex ceiling everywhere. There are unfortunately no 1920s feature left but we are hoping to add them back.

Due to lack of funds, we ended up doing some of the work ourselves to make it "habitable" but the progress have been extremely slow as we both work fulltime and have young children. We only did the bedrooms and one bathroom in 2 years...

We are now thinking of having the rest of the renovation, including a loft conversion (velux only - not change to the pitch of the roof), done by builders to finally get it finished (and stop living with step-ladder, piece of carpet and screwdrivers all over the house!)

Note that the loft may need planning permission as we are using the loft above the 1980 extension and we will have side velux windows. I am not sure if planning is completely needed but, from what I read, it may be the case.

Because we had so much time living in the house, I have a clear vision of what we want and I made some draft plans (which I may share separately to get your opinions). However, I don't know where to start to actually get the work started and I have been in indecision paralysis for the last few months.

The main question is should we hire an architect?

It seems that, because I already know what I want and have done some draft plans, I dont really need one. But as the same time, the few builders I have called told me "without plan, we cannot give you a formal quote".

It seems that plans are also needed for the planning stage.

Also, I am worried that, without a full architectural plan, things may go wrong during the building stage if the builders have to make decisions (note that I am working so unable to be on-site all the time). For example, where to place lights and switch, to shape and material for the new loft staircase...

I am very confused and everything seems so expensive... We really need to keep the cost down and I am concern to spend money on an architect that I may not actually need.

Also, I am not sure that I have the full understanding of the process.

From the reading I made, it seems that the stages are:

- architect

- planning permission

- structural engineer

- builder tendering => Who is doing this? can I do this myself or is that the architect responsibility? is it complicated to if I decide to do it myself?

- building management => do you think it is possible to do it myself and working full time?

Is that correct? Is there any areas that may or may not needed? Am I missing anything?

Sorry if my questions are a bit naive. I am just slightly overwhelm with the scale and cost of the project. Seems very daunting...

Many thanks for your help.

Featured Answer

Alix W

4 years ago

He or she :). Women can be architects, too.

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Comments (11)

PRO
Studio O+U Architects
4 years ago
last modified: 4 years ago
CD hello

I was amused when you wrote that you have reached a decision paralysis.

This is actually quite normal when dealing with things that one is not very familiar with and can be resolved in a number of ways : ie there are things that are right, then less right , even more less right , before we get to almost wrong and wrong.

It is the worry of making a mistake that causes the paralysis....

I'm an architect so my opinion may be bias but a good architect is a number of things :

1. Often your friend, your style guide .

2. Your guide in making decisions (related to the construction of buildings )

3. Your guide in preparing information relevant to planning and the construction process

4. Defender of your contract , if you have one, and there fore defender of your monies

5. Your hand in the design process

And probably more ..

Are they expensive ..... at first glance yes but one needs to look at the value and not the cost.

The way one needs to look at the cost of employing consultants, not just architects, is that the are there to :

1.Provide a design service at the outset

2.Convert the design to buildable information that can easily be understood by a builder ( its a different language sometimes)

3.BUT MOSTLY they are there , if employed under a full service, there to minimise your risk in terms of cost and unnecessary changes during construction and to defend you against claims that contractors can bring against their clients , often based on very spurious justification.

ie . A change or error in the construction phase may cost tens of thousands of pounds and exceed the architects fee multiple times

who is responsible for the error ?

who becomes the designer if you do not have an architect to see the issue and design it out for you.

You do.

or you employ your contractor with a design completion element - which is generally more than the architects fee because he hires another architect or designer to do the work.

ARCHITECTS are there to some extent to design and limit your risk by considering the materials and specifications and coordination of the project.

If they don't do it you need to and you have said you work full time .... so it is not that feasible or is it ?

to answer your questions below :

You can appoint an architect on a stage by stage basis or employ them to develop the design, assist in the tendering process and administrate the contract during construction each one is a stage.

If you are working full time : your detail drawings and specification need to be done and be perfect so that contractor has no reason to call you or ask for any information or more monies.

Your questions :

- architect- Can work all the way through or to stages - that is your choice.

- planning permission- prepared by the architect generally but if your drawings are correct and accurately drawn you can make the submission yourself . ( i'm not recommending it and have seen drawings by clients that have tried to do this )

- structural engineer- Is needed to provide a structural solution and calculations for BC that are coordinated into the architects information

- builder tendering => Who is doing this? can I do this myself or is that the architect responsibility? is it complicated to if I decide to do it myself?

You would need to prepare the drawings and detail drawings and specification or scope of works describing the project in a lot of detail and stating exactly what you will be building( with no ambiguity) or define the performance of all the elements that make up the project.

Compile it with the contract conditions

Issue it to the 3 contractors

Review the responses on a like for like basis

Negotiate elements

- building management => do you think it is possible to do it myself and working full time?

Not really if you are working full time see my note above but it depends on the size of the project and skill level of your contractor. Generally the better contractors that require less management are a lot more expensive.

Am I missing anything?

Yes, you are increasing the risk on your project and you should have a larger contingency to cover any errors and or omissions if you go down this route. I'd say a minimum of 25% to 40%

and again that is probably greater than your architects fee.

The saving you are referring to is relative and should be achieved in and through the preparation of the tender contract documents.

Drop me a line if you would like to discuss this . As i said I may be bias but generally bring my clients projects in within -5 to +10% of the original tender price, so I believe I'm a value added cost.
PRO
Vita Architecture Ltd
4 years ago
Hi C D,

Usually all architects work to the RIBA plan of work stages, well worth looking into and understanding what the steps involved are. We've recently just written an article on it too if you wanted to take a look!

http://www.vitaarchitecture.com/how-to-work-with-an-architect/

Kr,

Vita
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C D
Original Author
4 years ago
Many thanks both for your answers. It great to have the point of view of the architect.

My key concern is that, appart from the loft (which, as mentioned is just a velux loft conversion), our renovation project doesn't involve any structural alternation so not sure if a full RIBA architect is needed...

But I also get the points you mentioned regarding "do I have the experience and the time to do it myself?"

I think i will contact a few architects locally (unless someone can recommend one in Surrey) to have a better idea of the cost.

thanks
PRO
Studio O+U Architects
4 years ago
last modified: 4 years ago
CD contacting a local architect seems like a good starting point and he /she can advise you on which elements that you may or may not be able to take on board

You can then evaluate it from there.

Most architects will not charge for the initial meeting prior to their appointment

Best

David
E D
4 years ago
Women can be architects?

Whatever next...?

:-D
PRO
Studio O+U Architects
4 years ago
last modified: 4 years ago
Indeed...

Some of the best are or were ..ZH and AS to name a few

I would hope the same could be said of the head of the smaller building and contracting companies soon, typically dealing with this scale of project, as it would generally make the tail end of projects much less prone to dispute.
PRO
OnePlan
4 years ago
Have you looked locally for any design and build firms? Some specialise in lofts - some in rear and side extensions ... might be worth a look on your local council website too as often there’s a list of professionals who may be able to help on there too. If you have time to go through planning allocations of similar housing stock to yours on the council website - this too will give you some ideas.
Alix W
4 years ago
I think the other option, if you’re confident you know what you want is to go straight to a structural engineer. They can do the drawings and help with planning.

But I’ve never gone this route - I used an architect, and didn’t regret it.
PRO
Studio O+U Architects
4 years ago
last modified: 4 years ago
Re: Structural Engineers
If one wants the building to stand up, that's one thing but if one wants the building not to leak and to be thermally correct that's another

I believe one is comparing apples and pears

The One stop shop design and build is a route you can go down. As I said they will either have in house designers or employ a designer / architect to do the design and building regulations for them.

This transfers the design cost but does not eliminate it .
C D
Original Author
4 years ago
Many thanks for all your comments. Really good food for thoughts.

I had a few “loft specialist” quotes and we almost went for it.
But the reason we did not is that all those specialist lofts companies were not willing to do the rest of the house (eg electric and plaster/painting in living room/dining room, installation of wooden floor in ground floor, reroofing...) so we would have to employ a separate company for this; which obviously make the project more expensive and not streamlined.

I think our project is “small” but maybe it is not :)
And does deserve a proper architect /design to start with...
I will keep you updated ;)

Where to start for our house renovation - help! ;(

Alix W

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Studio O+U Architects

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Where to start for our house renovation - help! ;(

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