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Building a Home Renovating Design Dilemma

Which room should be which in a 5 storey Georgian terrace house?

4 years ago

Hello everyone,

My partner and I bought our first house eight months ago and we may have bitten off more than we can chew.

It's a five-storey Georgian terrace house which has been empty for the past 10 years. It is structurally sound and once the whole place is rewired and new central heating system in place we can start to decorate (yes we are in the middle of winter with no central heating!). However, before we can do this we really need to figure out the function of each room.

I have purposefully not shown the current usage of each room, as most don't have any obvious function and we would really like to hear everyone's thoughts without any influence from us.

We are prepared to move existing stud walls, build new ones, and knock through walls. The cellar is not tanked. Any other questions please ask!

`Please help us figure this out!

Featured Answer

Jonathan

4 years ago

I echo my earlier point that in my opinion listed building consent is tedious and a professional to help navigate it is invaluable.
I also echo Rinqs point about the estate agent - I suspect someone who lives in a 700square foot apartment would think your rooms enormous but someone with the budget to buy this will be looking at properties with big square footage- those houses rarely have lots of extra rooms- they have bigger rooms. If you don’t want this much space consider splitting the house into flats as your resale would be higher still- but I suspect you want the whole house.
Knocking through - the floor plan appears to show the two rooms once had an aperture so I wouldn’t hesitate to reinstate it. The room leading to the yard MUST become a reception room to maximise resale. If it is is a utility room it will render the outside space unusable and when you come to sell on you won’t have any outside space and so people will view your home as an oversized flat rather than a higher value house with outside space. Even the tiniest outside space adds value

Comments (30)

Sam Potter
4 years ago
It would be good to know a bit about your lifestyles and plans for your future together in this house. What life stage are you at? Are children on the cards? Do either of you work from home? Do you enjoy entertaining? How often might guests stay over? What are your leisure activities? These factors will affect how you organise the spaces in your house. I'm no expert but I'll enjoy seeing what others propose for you.
I would advocate cherishing any original features that turn up. They give a house soul.
Jonathan
4 years ago
There are lots of ways this house could work. A concept planner might be a good way to help visualize those options.
In the meantime I have shown what I would do to spread out.
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Hi everyone thank you all so much for your comments. The front of the house is north facing. I am really open to any idea (sketches on back of a napkin would be more than adequate!) that involves making the back of the house a two story kitchen/living/eating/bedroom arrangement as that will get the most sun (it’s just a shame the view is the other side of the house). I am really interested in making it eco friendly and am open to new and exciting materials (even a living wall!) . The access to the back is via the arch in the photos. The floor plan you see is the existing house (other photos are out buildings) but I suppose what I am thinking of doing is make the back into “the front” as this will be the bit that will be most used and that people see when they come to the house. Ideally I’d like 5/6 bedrooms. Keen on bathrooms that are out of the way but not en suites. Want separate dining room to kitchen. Wider than regs staircase. Would like a good sizeable utility room for coats boots washing machine etc. A playroom area would be good. Other than that I would like to do something really unique - weird and wacky is the name of the game! Put a slide in if you wish! And I’d love an outdoor bathroom please! Any rough sketches will be gratefully received. Thank you so much in advance for your inspiration and insight! Andy
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PRO
OnePlan
4 years ago
Nice work Jonathan ! :-)

Karen at OnePlan ( a Concept Planner ! )
Matt John
Original Author
4 years ago
OMG Jonathan, you are a wizard! You've achieved more there than we have ripping our hair out for 8 months!

Basement - We are loving the idea of having a guest bedroom in the basement, laundry room and the wall you've erected to form the garage and corridor is a great idea! The extended garage with balcony above is just positively inspired!

Ground - You've managed to solve the first problem of a downstairs toilet which is great. The idea of knocking through the front and back room is something we are torn with. It would make the most amazing kitchen with an island (doesn't everyone want an island!) but we are also concerned about knocking value off the house. Would losing these two rooms impact this?

1st Floor - Awesome, this confirms what we were thinking. The ceilings are the highest on this floor and the windows the biggest so its a really pleasant place for the main sitting room.

2nd Floor - The master suite. This means losing 2 bedrooms and we have been totally petrified by the estate agent who said we must not, under any circumstances lose bedrooms or we will knock value off the house. This most probably won't be our forever home. Do you think the master suite and losing two beds would put off potential buyers?

Attic - I think that's pretty spot on.

We have a major issue, in that the house is Grade II listed. Do you think we would get approval for everything you've mentioned? When we have looked at similar houses, especially in London and Bath, they seem to have done all sorts with them (presumably with LBC.)

Thank you so much for what you've done here Jonathan. You say there are lots of ways this house could work...what is a concept planner??

Thank you so much again!

In reply to Sam Potter....

We are definitely going to cherish all the original features, although there are some very questionable 1970s additions which we will, of course, take advice on.

Our main issue is that we have been so scared by the estate agent that we should, under no circumstances lose bedrooms that we really don't know what to do regarding ensuites vs master bathrooms and where either should go, bathroom to bedroom ratios. How much is an extra bedroom worth vs a luxurious master suite? The house was marketed as 7 bedroom and one bathroom with bath, shower and toilet along with one separate WC. Looking at the floor plans for new build houses, this really doesn't seem to be a good ratio.

So we need to find a balance of bedrooms and bathrooms. Work out where the kitchen should go as well as the main living space.
Sam Potter
4 years ago
Lots of people want 3-5 beds, and outbid one another, pushing the price of these houses higher. Seven bedders are rare, and so are the families who want them, so I'd assume the value per bedroom, drops once you're over the fifth one. I might be utterly wrong though :-)
rinked
4 years ago
I really like Jonathan's plans!

Only thing I'd change is the 2nd floor, the bedrooms are a good size and I do not mind sharing a bathroom. And the laundry is quite a long walk from the bedrooms, perhaps on the attic instead of the bathroom?
Sam Potter
4 years ago
Jonathan is my guru. Do what Jonathan says. I've had a drink/s.
Jonathan
4 years ago
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><md>Thanks for the compliments guys. Blushing
Jonathan
4 years ago
I wrote loads more on my last post and I don’t know where it’s gone.
You need an professional to negotiate listed building consent- try to find either a planning specialist who has significant LBC experience or an architect with the same experience. After I dealt once with the listed building people I vowed never again. Listed building regulations are not supposed to prevent buildings being updated or being modernised but it felt like that was what they were trying to do.
Separately a concept planner helps plan layouts- look at OnePlans profile for examples of her work.
Number of bedrooms- I think you have been misled by your estate agent- people who need many bedrooms don’t look at houses with limited outside space and limited parking. 4 is probably enough but you could keep two separate bedrooms at the front of the second floor and use one as a dressing room meaning later you could sell it as a five bed
Matt John
Original Author
4 years ago
I think the crux of the whole house working is what we do on the second floor. If we try to maximise bedrooms (we have communities nearby who really do need lots of bedrooms) and keep three bedrooms on the second floor. How do we make it work with bathrooms/ensuites?

I love the idea of replicating on the second floor what you have suggested for the bedroom on 1st floor, but then where do the front two bedrooms on the second floor go for a bathroom?
Jonathan
4 years ago
I think you need to get more advice about how many bedrooms you need to protect its resale value. You can also look at the sold section of sites like Rightmove.
Don’t forget that if necessary a future buyer could use the drawing room as a bedroom or turn the two storage rooms in the lower level into more accommodation.
But personally I think that unless you spread out into this house you will have lots of rooms that never get used.
Jonathan
4 years ago
I don’t like this second and attic arrangement as much but it does give you a total of six bedrooms (when you include the lower ground and first floor bedrooms too)
Gabby Wong
4 years ago
Where about in the country roughly are you? I appreciate that whilst you probably don’t want to reduce the number of bedrooms significantly I can’t imagine many people buying a 7bed house and expecting fewer than at least 1 en-suite bedroom or a master suite... more and more 3/4 bed houses have at least 1 room as the master with en-suite available!
Gabby Wong
4 years ago
I guess also if you have communities with large families you could afford to have a couple of rooms That are slightly smaller and they don’t all need to be doubles.
Matt John
Original Author
4 years ago
Jonathan - Thank you again for your suggestions and floor plan wizardry. I agree entirely that if we don't spread out into the house we will have lots of unused rooms, and there is a balance to be struck between living in this house as our home (two of us and the dog) and having an eye on its resale. I think it is this which we are struggling with. Someone requiring more bedrooms/bathrooms could always divide up the 1st floor drawing room (i think that would be a travesty, but still a possibility.

Who knows at what point a 5th, 6th or 7th bedroom is worth more than an ensuite, house bathroom or master suite!? Would your original master suite and 4 bed idea attract just as many buyers as maximising the bedrooms?

Gabby - I think you're right with what you say about en suites. When I look at new build floor plans it does seem they have almost a bathroom per bedroom in some cases! I design bedroom furniture for a living and when going into new builds I sometimes struggle to fit a king size bed in a room as well as a wardrobe, but they all seem to have an en suite.

Jonathan, If we go with the theory of having at least a bathroom per floor, so we kept the bedroom and ensuite in the attic, do you think there is a way of keeping three bedrooms on the 2nd floor whilst ensuring they all have access to a bathroom? (bearing in mind that the only structural walls are those shown on the 1st floor floor plan)
Matt John
Original Author
4 years ago
Another bone of contention between myself and my other half is whether to keep the kitchen in the ground floor rear projection or to create the enormously impressive kitchen diner as Jonathan suggested in his first suggested floor plan. Again, the estate agent scared the living daylights out of us by saying we knock through rooms at our peril!

Since we access the house at the rear, through the rear projection, it does make sense as a kitchen, or in Jonathans suggested layout it could be a boot room/utility/downstairs toilet. (we don't really have a back garden as such, just a yard and then a large slope to drive down into the basement).

What are everyone's thoughts on knocking through front and rear ground floor rooms to make a kitchen diner, with boot room/toilet/utility at the rear vs the current set up of separate kitchen, dining room and second living room, bearing in mind that they are all quite large rooms?
rinked
4 years ago
I love large open family kitchen diners!

Your estate agent sounds like an ass.. It's your house after all, as if you would do dumb things to it.. If you change things professionally and with proper planning (and from what I've read you are thinking things through), you'll have a fab home!
PRO
OnePlan
4 years ago
Any of this is all subject to the ‘powers that be’ in the listed homes office, I’d suggest you start with them and let them guide you, otherwise you could you’d be lining yourself up for disappointment in what you’d like to have verses what’s allowed.
Matt John
Original Author
4 years ago
We have spoken to them, and they've said in principle that nothing discussed so far is off the table. However, it's a question of putting a fully thought through proposal to them rather than them giving us any ideas.
Gabby Wong
4 years ago
Hahaha @rinq I was also thinking the estate agent sounds

most places now do seem love open plan living spaces. Look at the floor plans of all the new builds!

I agree with you! We just did a major (for us) extension/renovation and actually took out a bathroom! (3bed 3 ensuite! 1 only a single room and due to pitched ceilings minimal places for a wardrobe in the single!)

I think it’s a compromise between reasonable size rooms, adequate numbers of bathrooms, and quality and style.. I’d see a 7 bed with 1 bathroom as a house you’d be queuing for ages or needing to put one in!
Matt John
Original Author
4 years ago
last modified: 4 years ago
What does everyone think about these floorplans for the second floor?

There are two attic rooms above, which could be two bedrooms or a bedroom and bathroom/ensuite and below this floor is the drawing room and bedroom.

BTW these plans took me the past 6 hours to produce...Jonathan, how are you so speedy!?!
Jonathan
4 years ago
Personally I’m not keen on the B&B vibe of an ensuite in every room.
Personally I think you add more value by preserving the original proportions and symmetry of the rooms, reinstating fireplaces and decorating to a higher standard.
obobble
4 years ago
I agree with Jonathan that the original proportions and symmetry will be important for keeping a wow factor. The house may originally have had two living spaces on the first floor so you could consider using one room there as a study. If you are a doggy family, a boot room in the basement might be useful if you can enter the house at that level. I would be inclined to have a separate laundry /ironing room on an upper floor if you don’t hang washing outside to dry. In a house this size you could consider a cinema/ computer games room in the basement if you would use it. Are you wine buffs - how about a wine cellar? Future owners can use the rooms for different things to you if they are generous enough sizes. It is important that you get to use as much of the house as suits your lifestyle as well as having a good number of bathrooms for whatever number of bedrooms you end up with. Do you entertain much? If so, would you use a formal dining room. Are you musical? Do either of you have hobbies like painting, crafting, woodwork? Do you collect things? If your living room is on a separate floor from the kitchen, how about having a tea/coffee making facility and a drinks fridge in a cupboard on that floor?
Matt John thanked obobble
Sarah L
4 years ago
I'm not keen on option 1 either. I'd vote for 2 bedrooms and a bathroom, plus an ensuite to master. The recommended ratio of bedrooms to bathrooms is a minimum of 1 bathroom to 3 bedrooms. I think fewer but larger bedrooms are better than lots of smaller ones.
PRO
i-architect
4 years ago
Congratulations on your first home! That's exciting!

First you need to decide what you want and need. We can give you our opinions but at the end of the day it's your home and your investment, so it has to suit you best.

I have a free checklist that you can get to help you with assessing your needs for both your home and your project priorities. You can get that here:

Design Your Home Vision Checklist - https://bit.ly/2P1quQ6

I specialise in eco-home design, particularly for reuse of older property. I've got experience of working with both buildings in conservation areas and listed buildings. If you'd like to chat about how I could help you with your project you can book a free initial call here: https://calendly.com/iarchitect/20minchat

Best of luck with your new project this new year!

Jane
Matt John
Original Author
4 years ago

How about this one? Master ensuite, retaining the proportions of the rooms and providing a house bathroom with bath to service bedroom 2 and the two bedrooms on the floor above. Is this a winner or is this room worth more as an additional bedroom?

Thank you all for all your input so far! It's really helping us to think about things!
Jonathan
4 years ago
I think putting the bathroom at the front is fraught with problems- firstly are their drains at the front?
Secondly putting in extractor fans for ventilation will have to travel upwards as I can confidently predict the listed building people won’t allow a fan vent on the front of the house (or obscure glass for that matter)
HU-68698680
4 years ago
last modified: 4 years ago
How about using a saniflo? Then you're not using one of the biggest bedrooms as a bathroom. Maybe some people know the pros and cons of these?
Jonathan
4 years ago
I have had Saniflos in several properties. They get much criticism from people who have never had one but the are fine.
The do however feel lower end and may affect the saleability of a house trying to achieve top dollars

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