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Forever home, wrong downstairs layout. Help please

Suzanne
3 years ago

I have my forever home but with a poor layout. I've spent all of lockdown trying to figure it out, with no luck. We want an open plan kitchen/diner/lounge space that looks onto the garden. My partner wants to keep a garage. We'd also like a utility room (no sink, but washing machine and drier) with space for a bike. I also want a separate lounge space. The problem is I don't like the front of the house because it's overlooked by our opposite neighbour. South facing is to the left of the house, and that is also the bit with the best view into the garden (although there are also lovely garden views from anywhere across the back of the house). Help appreciated please.

Featured Answer
  • Artistic Interiors
    3 years ago

    Hi Suzanne,


    Here are a few ideas that will give you everything you want with the least impact on your budget. Please understand that I'm only working with a floorplan and a small write-up of preferrences, which limits some of the imput without pictures.


    Starting from left of your floorplan and working our way to the right:


    Current Office = new 2nd reception

    • Taking advantage of your southfacing garden with best views:
    • Convert current office into the second reception room/snug/tv den/second closed off living area that you wanted.
    • Knock down wall between office and breakfast room.
    • Add wall - deviding breakfast area in two - this will give you a triple aspect room, taking advantage of the light and garden views & access.
    • Depending on preferrences and your fence line, change windows to double doors and-or enlarge window space on south-facing side to add concertina doors out onto the garden.
    • You mentioned you didn't need an office downstairs - put added a desk in this room if you keep that window as a window rather than convert to doors in case it is helpful. But of course, you can configure your furniture in any of the rooms for how it works best with your lifestyle.
    • This will be a narrow room - hence a snug, garden room, extra tv lounge. A chaise lounge type sectional will give you the snug seating along with a chair or two. However, if you do want to do any extention work, you could think of adding that to the left side of your home to make this room wider and more all-purpose.

    Breakfast Room = new 2nd reception lounge & utility/hallway

    • As already suggested above, divide the room into two to gain a triple aspect snug/enclosed lounge
    • board up the doorway, or put wall where the doorway is not impeeded (as shown).
    • Convert the rest of the Breakfast room into a tidy (appliances hidden behind cabinets or closet doors) utility area. You'll want to make this room look more like a hallway when not in use as a utility, connecting the rest of the house to your second enclosed lounge.
    • Leave the wall and door between the current kitchen & the current breakfast area as is - which will hide this utility area when in use and muffle any noise from appliances.

    Garage = Garage

    • you mentioned your partner wanted to keep the garage. moving it seems silly as doing so would possibly knock-out some of your light & views.
    • also by keeping this as is, you will get the benefit of having access to the rest of the house via the garage & 2nd reception lounge, rather than having to go outside.

    Kitchen/Dinning Room/Hallway = Open Plan Kitchen / Casual Dinning

    • Placing the kitchen cabinetry from the front current dining room window - along the wall shared with the garage & on the opposite wall traveling out into an extended countertop/breakfast bar. This will create a galley shaped kitchen that you can use a number of triangle patterned work stations to make this kitchen functional & beautiful.
    • Put your casual dining area where the kitchen now is and add double doors to take full advantage of the views and the days you'd like to have the doors open onto the garden.
    • Enjoy the double aspect light & open plan space.
    • Keep your privacy at the front through the new kitchen with appropriate window treatment or frosted glass treatment if necessary

    Living Room = Open plan living room / dining room + kitchen / casual dining

    • By placing a support in and partially removing the wall going from the new open plan kitchen / casual dining into the current living room, you will get the open plan lounge - kitchen - dining that you want.
    • Open the wall from almost to the door next to the downstairs w/c to almost to the stairs (where the current living room door is now) (as shown).
    • The current living room is very large, and can house both a living room - lounge area and a more formal dining room (if that is what you want) or a hobby space - music area or other ??? (there are many possibilities).


    Keep as is = Porch, Downstairs w/c, stairs with closet underneath for storage

    • Porch gives you extra insulation, privacy & storage
    • Downstairs W/C allows you not to have to move & install new large toilet waste plumbing which is often a higher end budget item
    • Closet underneath stairs - storage! (cleaning stuff like mop & vacuum or coats or whatever)
    • Stairs - by not changing the layout or location of the stairs, you won't have to do costly renovations upstairs (just do any cosmetic updating you desire instead as you didn't mention wanting to do major changes to the upstairs) and can use your budget more wisely downstairs.


    This plan should give you everything you said you wanted on your list and give you the most bang for your buck without needless spending -- or at the very least give you a few new ideas to jump off from.


    I've added a picture here. Sorry so un-professional. I am retired, so just keeping my hand in.



    Best wishes & good luck!



    Comments (46)

    • PRO
      Poppy Noble Interior Design
      3 years ago

      Hi Suzanne,

      I’ve just had to print this plan out and have a play around! Such a great space with huge potential.
      Could you explain the wall between the kitchen and dining room...I’m just a bit confused by it! 🙈
      The front porch...is that a recent extension to the front? Would you miss it?
      If it were me I’d do the following.

      • I’d take the front porch off.
      • I’d knock the wall out between the kitchen and dining room to creat an open plan kitchen diner.
      • id build a new wall all the way down from the kitchen to where the WC is.
      • Move WC under stairs
      • put bifolds where kitchen sink is.
      • turn breakfast room into utility/larder

      I hope that makes sense?

      Kind Regards
      Poppy

    • keiblem
      3 years ago

      Hello Suzanne
      Much depends on your budget so here goes.

      Looking at your floor plan my first thoughts were that the front of the house has wasted space. The porch takes up space that could, by removing the dividing wall, be incorporated in to what is currently the dining room. Equally the cloakroom is floating in the middle of the space. Would you consider moving the cloakroom to the outside wall? There is already a window there. It would then make the entrance hall bigger.

      You say you don’t like the front because it is overlooked. Have you considered swapping the dining room with the kitchen? I am less bothered about a kitchen being overlooked. Moving drains adds to the costs but they are already there serving the cloakroom. Opening up the middle dividing wall would connect the two making a kitchen/diner.

      The current kitchen window seems large. You could perhaps convert it to double doors giving access from the new dining room into the rear garden. Building a dividing wall to separate the kitchen diner from the inner hall would give you a spacious inner hall running front to back with connecting doors into the kitchen, dining room and lounge. If you squared off the proposed kitchen there would be room for a large cupboard off this wall opening into the inner hall. It is a lovely big lounge so double doors from the hall would be nice. The breakfast room could be a small lounge off the dining room with views out to the garden.

      You wish to keep a garage. Could you swap the office and garage thereby bringing the office into the home thereby increasing the floor space of the home.

      I hope this helps.

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    • Suzanne
      Original Author
      3 years ago

      Thanks so much for your comments! They're not too dissimilar from our thoughts. The dining room is currently off the hallway without a wall separating it, so we've also considered putting a wall there but knocking down the wall between the kitchen and dining room.

      The front porch is very random and is open to the elements on other houses in our estate, but ours has been glazed before we bought it. Not bothered about it really (although good for shoe storage).

      I'm thinking the toilet under the stairs is an interesting idea!

      The problem is how to effectively use the 'office' (currently a part-converted garage), and the fact that I don't fancy a garage in the middle of the house. However, the best sun/views are from the 'office'. We don't need an office downstairs either.

    • Suzanne
      Original Author
      3 years ago

      Budget is flexible, but ideally all done for £60k

    • Jonathan
      3 years ago

      You budget is big enough to consider an extension. This is one possibility but there are many. You might consider hiring a professional such as a designer, Concept planner or architect

    • Suzanne
      Original Author
      3 years ago

      Thanks.
      We did toy with the idea of an extension, but it seemed a bit over the top when we have a good size footprint already.
      Still no need for the office either, so making that part of the kitchen/diner/lounge negates the need for an extension possibly.

    • Suzanne C
      3 years ago

      Would it be possible to show us the upstairs. Is there a possibility you could move the stairs to another area of the house?

    • Suzanne
      Original Author
      3 years ago

      Here's the upstairs. Happy to be flexible and radical (within budget). The current garage and office are single storey

    • Suzanne C
      3 years ago

      Would you consider moving the stairs to the front of the house, where the current en-suite is and moving the master bedroom to the back where you have garden views and privacy? This gives more space at the back of the house for you to play without the stairs

    • Suzanne
      Original Author
      3 years ago

      We would love a master bedroom at the back of the house! But we didn't think it would work easily with an en suite?

    • H A
      3 years ago

      How about moving the garage to the current living room and getting rid of the conservatory? Then you’d still have a large space to work with and you’d gain the benefit of your south-facing garden space. French doors or bi-folds leading out onto the south side would be lovely.

    • Suzanne C
      3 years ago

      Stairs in the middle of the house, allows you to have en-suites to bedrooms 1&2.

    • Suzanne
      Original Author
      3 years ago

      Oooh, interesting! Where would the bottom of the stairs be? I'm useless at trying to envision it, sorry!

    • Suzanne
      Original Author
      3 years ago

      I'm also pondering your comment too H A. I hadn't considered swapping sides!

    • Suzanne C
      3 years ago

      Would you consider 1/2 garage? Is the space for a car or just storage? If you plan storage well, with lots of wall to ceiling storage space, you may have more space in the house to play with.

    • Suzanne
      Original Author
      3 years ago

      Just remembered that we've got a street lamp blocking the pavement if we swapped the lounge to a garage

    • Suzanne
      Original Author
      3 years ago

      My partner wants a garage to keep his car in it :(

    • Suzanne C
      3 years ago

      As cars are getting wider and the average UK garage is too small for a normal sized car. Does your current car or one that you plan for in the future fit? Does your partner want to extend the garage size? To park a single car comfortably and be able to get out of it it needs to be 3m wide.

      If you don’t have a full garage, you could have a great space incorporating the office and garage and having roof lights or lanterns above as it’s a single story.

      You could even move the front door to the dining room window area to have a double door entrance or a door with side lights.

      Stairs in the middle of the house but can you play with the best orientation to suit you.

      If the garage wall is the main wall of the house, it will be more expensive to knock the whole wall down and put a steel spanning across that area. To reduce the costs, find the load bearing walls and try to keep them.

    • peggysue67
      3 years ago

      Totally random idea and I have no clue of costs but as the best side is the left could you knock the office, garage and breakfast room into a lovely kitchen diner lounge with sliding doors onto the garden. Then use the dining room and porch directly in front of it as a garage with internal door to open into hall or existing kitchen. Kitchen would become utility/ storage/boot room. Loo, living room and conservatory would stay the same.

    • Suzanne
      Original Author
      3 years ago

      The dining room is not big enough as a garage and the stairs would all need re-jigging unfortunately

    • Marianne
      3 years ago

      Random thought looking at plan, could you convert the living room into the garage? Then you've got that whole left side which you like best to play with in terms of kitchen/diner..

    • Marianne
      3 years ago

      Just adding to above, you could open up what is now dining room into an airy hallway, make kitchen a cosy lounge (with nice views). Have an access from hallway left into a separate utility / bikeroom adding external door opening onto garden ( for bikes). Plenty of room still for large kitchen diner if you use most of office/garage plus current breakfast room..

    • Husby
      3 years ago

      Putting the garage in the living room is surely the best option here. Having done some googling it seems possible to have a lamp post moved by the council, should cost about £1000 but that could be out of date.

    • Sarah FitzMorris
      3 years ago

      Can you tell me where the light is? I always think this should be the starting point. Kitchen on the lightest side, lounge on the darkest side. Where would that be?

    • Suzanne
      Original Author
      3 years ago

      I've decided that swapping the lounge into the garage is actually possible because we'd have enough space to swing the car round after all. Then that leaves the double garage for a kitchen/diner/lounge space, and the current kitchen could be turned into a snug.
      The left/back of the house is the lightest so that would give the main living spaces the best outlook.
      Now the dilemma is trying to fit a decent sized kitchen (preferably with an island), a dining table and a cosy sofa area into the double garage/breakfast room. I thought that would be easy, but after 3 hours on it yesterday I'm still struggling to make it work. Might have to do away with the island :(
      Thanks for everyone's comments. Any extra ideas still appreciated :)

    • Sarah FitzMorris
      3 years ago

      I think it is worth asking a professional about moving the stairs. Your current entrance could end up being a long way from the kitchen, and you would have a small lounge for the house size. If you can move the stairs to where the hallway is above the loo in the picture and move the front door to come into the current dining area, the flow will be much better from a central hallway in my opinion that would be worth spending the money on.

    • Sarah FitzMorris
      3 years ago

      Oh and I’d put a fabulous skylight on the single story roof of your new open plan kitchen living area. Will be amazing x

    • Laura
      3 years ago

      As the best views are on the left of the house I would consider turning the lounge into bedrooms/master suite and having a snug upstairs with views of the garden

    • Marianne
      3 years ago

      peninsula / breakfast bar instead of island?

    • meeaccount
      3 years ago
      last modified: 3 years ago

      See if this plan appeals. If you don't need a study, simply have a larger family room. You can also lay the kitchen over the family room/study and use the drawn kitchen as a lounge. With all this, there is minimal re-do so even with a new kitchen, utility, bi-folding and flooring, your spend will be less than half of your budget. If you still want to spend the rest, consider taking on the extension drawn in dashed line. That would be money well spent.

      A next thought may be to bring down one of the bedrooms. This will give a nice master bed to the left and more ensuites. If so, the WC downstairs will need to be extended to take on a shower and can be a Jack-and-Jill setup. The 4th bedroom can take the place of the dining room which can be relocated to the front of the living room.

      For the full works -> suggested layout + extension + relocate one bedroom to downstairs with creation of shower room.


    • meeaccount
      3 years ago

      I have tried to attach a floor plan "see if this plan appeals" which goes with my comments, but can't see that it has been posted. Maybe there is a delay in posting. If it does not come through, let me know what is the best way to get it up. Nauman.

    • Suzanne C
      3 years ago

      Any chance you can show us a photo of the front of the house and around the side? Is there a possibility you can build a carport instead of a garage?

    • Sarah
      3 years ago

      Lots of good ideas for you.. Think carefully about:

      • orientation: you say South is to the left, so the current kitchen and dining room face West. Is this what you want? It means the living room has less warm light as well as less view. How do you like to use the space? Do you spend a lot of time in the kitchen area?
      • internal walls: which are load-bearing? You can insert RSJs, but that isn't cheap.
      • drains: where does the main drain go? If you want to move internal plumbing downstairs, that will be both expensive and difficult, as you will have to break the DPC (damp proof membrane) and dig up / replace floors.
      • how open plan you want to be. Often people think they will like it, but if it is more than just the two of you, it may not work so well. Equally, if there is the possibility of children, areas where they can play under partial supervision is useful.
    • Suzanne
      Original Author
      3 years ago

      Meeaccount - the only way I found to attach things was via the app. Not sure if you tried that as I can't see the plan.

      Some of you have commented about a downstairs bedroom but I'm really not keen on that, but thanks for the suggestions.

      We have a garden at the back and down both sides, so we could build a brand new garage (probably to the right of the lounge) which was an appealing idea until we were told it would cost 25k. Then we'd still have to factor in the refurb inside, and we figured it would be too pricey.

      Still contemplating the lounge into garage swap plus converting the garage/office into the kitchen/diner because then we wouldn't need any RSJs. Apparently we'd need an RSJ between the current kitchen and dining room if we knocked that through. And I realise that the more RSJs equal a significantly higher cost :(

    • Victoria
      3 years ago

      I honestly suggest you consider contacting someone like @OnePlan for a professional opinion on your floor plan and kitchen design.

    • meeaccount
      3 years ago

      With reference to my earlier comments

    • Artistic Interiors
      3 years ago

      Suzanne,


      PS - the extended countertop and breakfast bar in the kitchen is similar to having an island. In practical terms, it will work the same and you won't feel like you are missing out. Have done this in a number of homes in the past where islands are a struggle for space, and the clients always loved it. Of course, there are many configurations for the kitchen I've shared with you - some of which depend on the size of the front window in that area.


      Best wishes!

    • PRO
      Walk Interior Architecture & Design
      3 years ago

      if this is your forever home, which is obviously large and has value and you are prepared to spend £60k - you really should be getting some professional help. they would take a brief and look at all the options, structural & planning parameters. you'll get a better result and avoid silly/costly mistakes. design by a random committee is not the way forward. I had a call today from some who's just finished their loft extension/staircase that has loads of expensive issues that now have to be fixed, because they did it themselves and they did not know what they did not know!

    • Suzanne
      Original Author
      3 years ago

      Obviously I will speak to professionals as I am not a builder or an engineer. I was just seeking ideas about the design in the spirit of houzz. I am really appreciative of everyone who has taken the time to consider the floorplan and it's motivating to hear original ideas. There have been lots of creative suggestions that I can ponder before going to an architect :)

    • Artistic Interiors
      3 years ago
      • Hi Suzanne,


      Just an add-on about budget. I had an interior design firm in America before I moved here, and a renovation budget there was different from here.


      There is a myth here about Budget + 20% contingency (which would mean you take your total all-in Budget, and use 80% as a compare to go get quotes (never telling anyone about the 20% you have stashed aside for contingencies).


      I used this all the time in the States and it worked. I most of the time came in on budget or under budget once a price was agreed and rarely had to use the contingency for unforseen circumstances. The only times this didn't work out was when clients made multiple changes and went shopping mad during the project, and in the case of a couple of large structural issues that couldn't have been foreseen before the building work began.


      Having worked on a number of projects here, that formula never seemed to work - not even in my own home, and it took me some time to figure out what did work.


      First, when you tell a company, design firm, builder that your budget is £40 - £60K, they often start using the £60K as their starting off point. Due to the age of homes here, you can never never never start working with your max budget. There are always unforeseen issues here, and that just won't keep you in budget.


      There is also a saying here that a building project always takes twice as long and costs twice as much. This seems to be closer to reality than the Budget + 20%. It is just the nature of the culture of the building trade here + unforeseen circumstances. The only way around this is to be on a fixed contract (not all builders will do this now) - but even then there are unforeseen circumstances that always increase the costs above what is included in your contract (this kind of contract usually just helps keep costs from spiraling unless there is an odd unforeseen doozy or two).


      What I don't get is that I've only heard of a handful of projects that came in on budget here, and tons of ones that haven't. So if builders know this, then why are their quotes so off the mark? (ok, that's just a rant).


      Anyway, this is how I practically do the sums working with builders and project managers - which you must must must get reliable referrals for or know they are and have been working with your interior designer for some time.

      • I take my max budget: £60K
      • I take 20% off = £12K (I never tell anyone about this money - and only bring it out during the project when absolutely necessary)
      • Remainder = £48K
      • I try to get quotes in the region of 60 to 70% of this number = £28,800 to £33,600
      • So with your project, I would talk with trades people about my budget of £30-£35K (I am only bumping this number up a bit because for what you want done, honestly it is very easy to spend £40-60K as you'll need some new windows, flooring, plumbing, lighting & electrics, kitchen, finishing, and painting, and possibly furniture - it goes quick even when you are a good shopper and keep track of your pennies and that's even before you consider extending).

      Now in your head you have £48K to spend, but you only talk about £30K-£35K, and you then only spend upto the £48K once building work has begun and you start to see if there are any unforeseen issues and what they are. That extra money could go before you even get to upgrade a kitchen appliance or lighting fixture.


      Then if you can get through the entire build with the contingency, or towards the end of your build if that money is still about because the extra time needed verses what was quoted often eats into your two contingencies if unforeseens do not - then you can keep the savings or splash it on whatever you'd like. Anyway the point of the this is this is how to keep from spending 2x+ your budget and keep within you maximum budget most of the time.


      That's more the reality of a renovation in this country I am afraid. It is frustrating, even when working with reputable builders at times.


      So when you start getting quotes, if they just don't come in in the range of your £30-£35K including the kitchen you want, then you may have to revisit your budget because if you use your £60K as a starting point, it will go significantly over. Or you can do the work in stages, or possibly become the best sourcer of materials & fixtures and fittings ever!


      I know you didn't ask, but hope it helps.


      Best wishes

    • PRO
      Walk Interior Architecture & Design
      3 years ago

      then add the VAT!

    • Suzanne
      Original Author
      3 years ago

      Thank you very much for your budget advice. Lots to consider :/

    • kl55hp
      3 years ago

      I like "Artistic Interiors" clever lay-out suggestion. But I would put the utility/washing machine etc into a section of the garage

    • Artistic Interiors
      3 years ago

      Hi Suzanne,


      I just wanted to say that I am sorry if I overwhelmed you with the Budget info. I don't wish to deter you from converting your forever home into exactly what you want. I do think your £40-£60K budget is realistic for what you want done within your home's existing footprint. This is mainly because most of your work will be internal with relatively easy structural changes, so you are far less likely to run into too many unforeseen circumstances. So if you work on a £30-40K budget (keeping the rest stashed until your project is for sure running smoothly), then you'll be infinitely less likely to be over budget on the £60K max when you are done.


      Honestly, sorry if I caused too much stress over the situation. Don't let what I said deter you. You can do this and you will be so happy with the results!


      Best wishes

    • Suzanne
      Original Author
      3 years ago

      That's OK 'Artistic Interiors'. I'd rather know what I'm letting myself in for! Thank you for all the details and suggestions. I have kept back some budget for contingency and I will keep that to myself ;) Your help has been very useful!

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