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Renovating Design Dilemma Kitchens

1930s semi-detached single storey extension layout advice please

3 years ago

Hi,

I've only just discovered that Houzz has these discussion forums! I've look through quite a few posts and have seen some great ideas and advice.

I'm hoping for some ideas related to my proposed extension.

The first image shows the proposed plans. There are some changes we are going to make, for example we've decided not to have an external door in to the utility area as it's not a necessity and gives us more space in there. The stud wall which will seperate the downstairs loo and utility can also be shifted across slightly. We are also considering having doors from the lounge to the kitchen-diner, although this depends where the kitchen goes.

My sketch is one rough idea. Although a variant of this would be to put the sink along the wall with the other units in one run, allowing us to have doors that stretch right across (the best view of the garden is on that side, the other side is obstructed by the garage which sits part way up the garden). The dining table would also probably end up near the bifolds (rather than the sofa which is currently on the sketch).

We've looked at putting the kitchen on the left hand side but the space doesn't seem big enough (even if we move the utility entrance door to the stud wall leading in to the area marked 'dining room'). Also, doing this just leaves a big open space at the other end.

The other alternative is to put the kitchen at the back in an L-shape and forget about the double doors in to the lounge.

What I don't want is for the space marked as the dining room on the plans, to become just a walk through space. I want to join them both together somehow (so the units down one side and the island is one idea of trying to acheive this).

Any advice gratefully received!

Thanks.

Featured Answer

Steph

3 years ago

If you take the door out of the utility, you need to make sure you have an emergency egress (escape) window in the utility as it becomes an inner room. I’d make the space feel really open by freeing up the walls and having a large island as shown. Floor to ceiling units along the left side side and a sink area here as this will connect to your drainage outside

Comments (14)

HU-578295075
Original Author
3 years ago
Just to add, I'd really like a seperate utility area but other ideas considered regarding the location.
Steph
3 years ago
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PRO
Room-by-Room (UK) Ltd
3 years ago
Hello,

It would help the thought process if I could ask a few questions.

Will the support beams be inserted into the ceiling voids.

I noticed that there were a few steps at the front door. Do you walk up the steps to reach the front door?

Is the ground floor block and beam or suspended timber?

Where are the gas and electric meters situated?

What is currently under the stairs beyond tread 6?

Are you deliberately building up to the fence because of a party wall agreement or could this wall be moved so that its across the boundary to allow more room in the kitchen extension?

What is the roof design proposal for the extension?

Could the return walls between the extension and the existing building be cut back to create more space?

I look forward to hearing from you.

Regards

Andrew
HU-578295075
Original Author
3 years ago
Hi @Steph

Thanks for your reply. My drawing isn't very clear there...the oblong shape in the wall by the sink in the utility is a window that exists at the moment (we considered a door for an extra entrance but leaves us with very little functional space so we are sticking with the window as it is).

We had toyed with the layout you suggested above - the thing that steered me away from it was having the island right across the width of the entrance, I thought it might block light to the back of the room and make it feel more enclosed. I might get the ktichen place to render a design in that layout though so I can look at it properly again.

Thanks for taking the time to comment, much appreciated!
HU-578295075
Original Author
3 years ago
@Room-by-Room (UK) Ltd

Thanks very much for your reply.

Will the support beams be inserted into the ceiling voids.

- I'm not sure about that. I've got loads of drawings but can't make out whether that's the case or not. I have added some other images just in case that answers the question!

I noticed that there were a few steps at the front door. Do you walk up the steps to reach the front door?

- Yes there is a shared sloped driveway- including 3 steps up you can see in the image, and 3 steps at a right angle to those steps (which lead up from the shared driveway).

Is the ground floor block and beam or suspended timber?

- The area which is marked as dining room is suspended timber, the rest (towards the back which is a small 1980s addition is concrete udnerneath).

Where are the gas and electric meters situated?

- currently under the stairs in a cupboard. The house will need a total re-wire and central heating installation.

What is currently under the stairs beyond tread 6?

- understairs cupboard just used for storage (with both meters)

Are you deliberately building up to the fence because of a party wall agreement or could this wall be moved so that its across the boundary to allow more room in the kitchen extension?

- the neighbours were in agreement with the plans when we showed them. Sorry, not sure I understand moving the wall? Do you mean moving it so it isn't touching my neighbours' wall? I just followed the architects suggestion for this part. I assumed it was as far across as it could go.

What is the roof design proposal for the extension?

- images attached (no longer having the door shown in the SE elevation image).

Could the return walls between the extension and the existing building be cut back to create more space?

- possibly, that is something that I've asked my architect (do you mean the little bits that stick out that will have the beams over?)

Thanks again!
HU-578295075
Original Author
3 years ago
PRO
Room-by-Room (UK) Ltd
3 years ago
Hello and thanks for your prompt reply.

The drawings provided show that the support beams are 203mm depth and therefore they will be too big to sit inside the ceiling void. As the weight per linear m is 23Kg as detailed on the drawings it may be worth asking the engineer to reduce the depth and and increase the weight so the beam can be inserted into the ceiling void. I note that there is also a couple of posts in the stud wall and these could be upgraded if necessary. I do not make these suggestions lightly. The main benefit of inserting the beam inside the ceiling is the removal of the shadow cast on the ceiling.

The return nibs on either end could be cut back and if needed posts could be fixed direct to the brickwork to provide vertical support. There may need to be a spreader plate welded to the bottom of the post in order to mitigate the point load on the foundation. Obviously this is more of a structural design issue.

Is there a good reason for not centring the bifold doors to the external wall?

You have so much height on the flat roof why not put a warm deck roof on instead of a cold deck with in cross ventilation?

Can I also suggest a warm pitched roof too. You may find Web Dynamics TLX Goldto be a very useful form of insulation as you will only need about 75mm of PIR insulation in between the rafters.

I've never been fortunate enough to meet a building control officer willing to accept a heavy duty Catnic lintel over a 4M bifold door.

I thought the under stairs might be the position of the meters. I would consider relocating these to an outside wall. Then turn the WC through 90 degrees and design it under the stairs. If I was planning a kitchen diner extension with a beautiful bi-fold door looking out into the rear garden would try and create a direct flow from front of house to the back. I would move the utility room into the middle of the house to provide a direct line of sight from the front door to the rear garden. GD3 would provide access into the utility room. I'd consider moving the door along the living room wall so it could open into the hallway. This would allow a 950mm wide fully glazed door to be placed between the hallway and the kitchen diner.

With regard to the position of the new extension wall which is adjacent to your adjoining neighbour I suggest that you look up the party wall act 1996 booklet online here - https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/523010/Party_Wall_etc__Act_1996_-_Explanatory_Booklet.pdf

The part that is of interest is "Line of junction - building astride the boundary".

If you build across the boundary you should gain at least 150mm of additional internal floor space along the length of the outside wall. Also if in the future your neighbour decides to build an extension they can utilise your wall for if they pay half of the cost of its construction. I'm sure you know that you are responsible for paying all of the costs from all sides relating to the party wall agreement. If the neighbour on the other side is within 3/6m then you will need an agreement with them as well.

The architects drawing indicates that the drain is not adopted or shared and therefore you will not require a build over agreement with the water authority.

Best wishes

Andrew
pazzomed
3 years ago
Hi, i haven’t read through the comments above but i have attached a few visual ideas that might help you decide on a final layout. Also i would keep in mind the following points:
- my friend has bifold doors without any ventilation and it often gets too hot inside so the only option she has is to open a bifold (or wear a bikini!) – not always ideal when its windy or raining
- middle areas always end up being dark so choose some good lighting for dining area – maybe dimable ‘daylight’ bulbs?
- reconsider outside door to utility – are you happy carrying washing to bifold to hang out/would outside door help when bringing in shopping?
- kitchen sink definitely needs work space either side (and room for dishwasher if you’re having one)
- also walk through doing your daily stuff on the plan - from making a cup of tea to entertaining (this helped me to decide where to place items/sockets, etc)
- it will be cheaper to have your sinks/loo near your existing drains
It’s easy to get stuck on one idea but do consider you’re life style – I would probably dedicate the biggest zone and cash to what is most important to you - if you are a quiet couple who don’t entertain much then a smaller kitchen/dining area with a larger lounging/hobby area might be best – and vice-versa for large family/party people.

Also, is it a ‘forvever’/long term home or do you envisaging moving at some stage and want to make a profit - this might help you prioritise what’s most important and how to allocate your budget.

My final advice is to make as many mistakes as you can on paper and then stick to the final plan – this will save you time, money and a whole load of stress :-)

Good luck & hope this helps
pazzomed
3 years ago
p.s. sorry forgot to put in supporting pillars in all pictures but sure you can work around this!
HU-578295075
Original Author
3 years ago
@Room-by-Room (UK) Ltd

Thanks for your reply.

I hadn't considered shadows cast by the beams - do you think it can really change the feel of a room or would you consider it just a personal aesthetic preference?

I have only just noticed that the opening isn't centered. There's no reason for it not to be so I'm going to ask for that to be adjusted, thank you.

I have to say I have no idea and warm deck v cold deck and what that actually means in terms of day to day functionaliity and cost. Could you elaborate a bit for me please?

The plans I attached have already been approved so they were happy with the heavy duty catnic lintel (but since then I had to pause on starting any work and have looked again and the plans and wanted to make some changes).

Having watched 1001 property programmes I was trying to find a way of enabling a line of sight all the way through but we couldn't really come up with anything that worked.

I just went with the architects drawings for the boundary - your suggestion of considering going up to my neighbours wall is a good one though. I will be enquiring about it. How much does a party wall agreement usually cost?

Thanks again,

Clare.
HU-578295075
Original Author
3 years ago
@pazzomed

Thank you so much for those drawings, I really appreciate it and have been looking over them this week.

I'm hoping to have bi-folds with one independently opening door (which can also be folded across as part of the whole set). I'm also going to have veluxes that open. We are SW facing so it's fairly sunny but our garden is terraced so we don't get full sun at the back apart from certain times of the day.

Your other suggestions are great, thanks. Still tooing and froing with a door in the utility! Can't decide.

I might ask my architect to extend a bit further out as then I feel like I could fit everything in. I'd lose a bit of (what will be) patio space but I think it would solve a lot of headaches!

Thanks again,

Clare.
PRO
Room-by-Room (UK) Ltd
3 years ago
Hi,

Thanks for taking the time to read my email suggestions and responding to them.

Beams under ceilings and wall nibs create shadows which can significantly reduce natural light entering a room. Consider why you have a vaulted roof with roof lights in the extension and not a flat ceiling continuing from the original house. Light.

Warm flat and pitched roofs do not require cross flow ventilation. They also allow the spot lights to be fitted into the ceiling easier. They provide space under the plasterboard for electrical cables to pass easier.

Have you already got building regulations approval?

As I mentioned the party wall agreement will be required and the builder you select should not start work without a copy so that they know exactly what has been agreed. For example if the neighbour has not agreed to scaffolding on their side. Building a wall overhand will cost more and take longer as the scaffolding will need to be inside the extension.

If you have planning permission now you will need to go through the planning process again in order to make the extension bigger.

Best wishes

Andrew
madeleine_brown8
4 months ago
My recent renovation was similar.

I like when the back of the house (garden) is visible from the front.

Instagram account of alternate layout

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