Reinforce loft floor without using big steel beams

3 years ago

Hello, looking to do some MODEST remedial work in the loft to make it safe & compliant with building regs, and the biggest question is whether there in an alternative to large steel beams to support floor?
Thinking of using thick rebar on every second or third beam, for example, but don't know if that is compliant.
Which prof service would do an inspect, report and recommendation to inform what works need doing?
Thank you
Lee

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Hullo Masklin, it does sound like a tricky situation, and I'm sorry to hear about these additional costs. Building work is always expensive to begin with, and additional and unexpected costs are never welcome. In respect of whether there is scope to obtain costs for this from your architect and structural engineer, this will most likely come down to the original appointment, their scope of involvement in the project, and whether they where direct appointments with you - or whether the SE was appointed through the architect. If the architect and SE were appointed to undertake planning and building regulations drawings with no exploratory or invasive works (ie stripping back existing structure in the house to assess structure before the project was tendered) then there will have been a number of reasonable assumptions on their part, which will only have been assessed when a main contractor started. The conversion of the attic would have added some additional loading to the property, but certainly less than adding a whole additional storey. There is every chance that additional bedroom space at this level would have less weight implication than someone stuffing their attic full with storage. SE's are notoriously cautious, so their assumption for the attic should have taken into account any additional loading, and if an existing (previously completed) opening needs to be reinforced, it might suggest that the existing opening was not designed appropriately to begin with. The flaws in existing structural design would generally fall into 'unforeseen' items, which is generally where contingency funds are intended for use. However, as others have suggested, if you are unhappy you can always pursue this further through the ARB, or RIBA (if your architect is a member of these bodies) or through the body that the structural engineer belongs too - but it is always worthwhile starting a discussion with the architect and SE and asking them to clarify how this happened. They will no doubt want to try and address this and have the opportunity to resolve this with you direct. Check your appointments with them, and what they were briefed (and paid) to undertake on your behalf. It might also be worthwhile trying to source any information you can about the original works and structural beam that got installed. Hopefully there will be a positive outcome from it all. Good luck! K :)
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Hi Heidi, Having just done such a project (and learnt a little from it...): Ceiling heights: minimum thickness of a floor is around 200mm/8" but some of that can be "reclaimed" below e.g. by leaving the joists exposed. Above is trickier because insulation requirements for the roof mean you can't really do that much there; the distance between the outer surface of the roof ridge and the inner ceiling will end up at least 250mm. Do your figures. Regarding the steelwork, there are lots of technical options to build this and "all of them may be right" as in (not) needing a ridge steel beam. Have you got an SE (structural engineer) spec for it? You can talk directly to steelworks fabricators about this. Builders tend to buy RSJs from specialist companies whose business it is to "sell steel made to size / spec" - steelworks fabricators. Some builders like to "cut&weld on site" because it saves them time but workshop welding and steel preparation tends to have more consistent quality and is preferred by structural engineers and/or insurance & building control (the latter often because of the fire risk for welding work on small sites). So this may be a case for more questions to the builder ("who's your steel fabricator and would you mind me talking to them?"), or a 2nd opinion by showing the plans to a fabricator and asking them for how they think this could/should best be built. The technical term is to request a "method statement" - how will the steelwork be made to conform to design, comply with structural spec & building regs and/or constraints of property deeds, and how will it be installed (to satisfy site insurance and Health& Safety regs, and/or other provisions e.g. from party wall awards/consents) ?" On the fire suppression system: building regs part B (fire safety, https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/485420/BR_PDF_AD_B1_2013.pdf ) extensively talk about "means of escape" which usually are protected / made "safe" by the additional fire resistance hallway walls and fire-rated doors to the hallway/stairwell provide. Where you have open-plan, the guidance says (quote): "Alternatively, it may be possible to provide sprinkler protection to the open-plan area, [ ... long sequence of auxiliary requirements/explanations ... ]" And the devil is in the detail. Not the least because "sprinkler" isn't the same as "mist sprinkler" (let's not go there now, rabbit hole...). It's definitely worth pre-clearing the design / fire suppression method with building control, because once you start, having to "alter" later to put extra partitions in not only blows costs out but also kills the design. From my own experience - do not let the builder "just start" because ... they may hold _you_ to ransom if their (hidden) cost-saving provisions are felled by external agents/influences. With no roof on the building and neighbours breathing down your neck for potential damage or perceived risk, or building control refusing signoff unless major changes, you're in a pretty bad negotiation position. Building regs will pre-clear designs for you, possibly for a small fee. Good luck !
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Hi ... As you see on my profile picture, the front door is very much at the office, the only way to reach the house is via the main driveway to the black door. It's because the driveway is so long, the house is behind another house, and currently we dont have our "own" boundaries at the side of the driveway at the main road to post a sign on that some have an issue finding us....we will get to rectifying that. Even if we did allow access via the path to the utility room (which we dont want to do), that path also doesnt reach the main road either, and looks like an entrance to the new telephone exchange next door with identical gate to theirs (we are the "old" exchange). The main door was the utility but now I changed things and put the new entrance in, it's very obvious that going further than the office front door is private. Trust me... bloke with a sledge hammer has happened here already, several men 2200Watt demolition hammers... this place doesnt wan't to budge! I agree on the macerator, but it's the only way, I have however taken heed and re-planned to to only need one, not crazy 3. None of the internal walls are structural so to speak... apart from holding up the ceiling, which I add that is not sufficient as an upstairs floor using beams that should have been bigger than there is. The house is adapting through stages of also being able to live in it. While we tear down one part of the house, 2 bedrooms needed to be in service, the one bathroom retained, and the kitchen/laundry are going nowhere. Currenty the newly "finished" rooms are the Office, kitchen, Laundry, Bedrooms 2 & 3, the hallway(stairwell) shaped up and about to cut the bathroom door, the in floor electrics are in the living room, 65" wall mounted tv. Basically, we are working from one end to the other whilst keeping it liveable. Upstairs is future /maybe at this point. To be brutally honest, I dont think the architect has given it a thought, and in the latest plan actually removed a steel truss to make rooms look like will work, odd cupboards at the extremes, diagonal steel truss through bathroom, no thought to head height or where the plumbing services are. I'm sending a plan back with everything stripped out of the loft bar the master bedroom because of this... What I want to know, is how we are going to construct the floor and ventilate the loft etc... I cant say I'm enjoying it anyway, and I thought it was going to be and exciting move for the money :(
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Reinforce loft floor without using big steel beams

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