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kitchens - which bespoke joinery would be reasonably priced?

2 years ago

We are looking for a wow kitchen and love the bespoke joinery look with handles, an island table, Miele cookware range. Our kitchen will be mid-size. What is the price range I am looking at? Does anyone have a spread sheet for budget purposes? Also is 7-8k per toilet renovation for a wow toilet enough? Thanks.

Featured Answer

Claire Nicholson

2 years ago

last modified: 2 years ago

We just had a bespoke kitchen made and fitted.

3m sink run

5m wall run

3 x 1m island

3.5m pantry run and dresser top

2 x Neff ovens

2 x Neff fridge freezers

1 x induction hob

1 x under counter fridge (pantry)

1 x Neff dishwasher

1 x Quooker tap

Armac Martin solid brass handles

Total for the above £30,000

Worktops on top at £5k for quartz.

Its in but we haven’t done all of the finish details with artwork, styling etc but here’s a few pics so you can see what that sort of money gets you.

Hope that helps :)

Comments (40)

Daisy England
2 years ago
I work for a bespoke joinery company. We also make (if required) and sell ‘off the shelf kitchens‘ (meaning I buy in their requirements).

There is no such thing as estimating a price without a plan and a specific component list. The variance in price could be huge.

Everyones idea of mid range could be different. You could be looking at £10k or £40k depending on specifics and especially worktops.

Miele is probably one of the top of the range with appliances so they won’t come cheap.
Nekul
Original Author
2 years ago
Thank you Daisy. That’s so helpful. May I know the name of your joinery? We won’t have a plan until July but at this stage trying to put a budget on everything ahead of our meeting with our architect / project manager
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Daisy England
2 years ago
We are in Staffordshire and only deal within our own county. Do plan in advance as all contractors are so busy at the moment. Our waiting time is 3-4 months minimum.
Nekul
Original Author
2 years ago
Our architect works with a recommended builder so we will go with him.
Sonia
2 years ago
My very average kitchen from Wrens (not high spec) and a medium size kitchen cost, 10 years ago, just under £6000 for units, worktop and all appliances. Then electrics, flooring, plastering, tiles, new window and freestanding fridge brought the total up to £13000.. If you are looking at bespoke and handmade with high end appliances it would be considerably more.
Jonathan
2 years ago
I think it’s very easy to spend £1000 on an oven and in fact some Miele models are twice that….. so I think by the time you have got ovens, warming drawer, hob, fridge, freezer, dishwasher, wine fridge you will have used £7-17k of your budget. Quartz work surface could be £5-20k depending on how much you need and what choices you make and fitting can be £3-4k meaning that with the cost of furniture a quality kitchen can be £30-70k to buy.
Nekul
Original Author
2 years ago
So 30-35k is doable. I will account for 10+% more but I really don’t want this to become a 50k project for kitchen alone if possible :)
Lois C
2 years ago
I would allow at least:

- £20k cabinets.

- £5k worktops (quartz)

- £7k appliances

- £2/3k fitting

- £500 lighting and handles

it might be high, it might be low - depending on room size and tastes and how savvy you are.

that is dry fit (electric, plumbing, flooring and room lighting n top).
Nekul
Original Author
2 years ago
Lois you don’t know how much this helps me. Can’t thank you enough. Would you have something similar for bathrooms too? Completely new to this but want to be prepared before we work with the project manager / architect and be as specific as we can be. Thanks so so much!
Lois C
2 years ago
Hi

£8-£10k for a good bathroom should be achievable. Could do it cheaper, could also easily spend twice than much or more. But again depends on size of room, what you want, where you get it from and where you live. If you want a stand alone Bath, very fancy taps, fully tiled with natural stone, underfloor heating, then you are looking at quite a bit more.
Lois C
2 years ago
Best thing is to go to a sensible bathroom
Showroom and start the process moving. They will take measurements and start the specification.
Nekul
Original Author
2 years ago
Claire you are amazing. Thank you for sharing your breakdown. Who did your cabitnery. It’s beautifully. Well done!
Claire Nicholson
2 years ago
We’re also just doing our downstairs toilet- which is very small as we’ve located it under the stairs!!!

£600 sink, toilet and tap

£1000 vanity unit for the sink to sit on

£350 Karndean flooring

£250 wall paper

£200 paint

£600 match board

£600 electrics

£500 plumbing

£300 radiator

£250 new door

£100 door handle

£400 on decorative bits eg mirror, toilet roll holder etc.

Clearly not finished yet but a few pics to give you an idea on size, finish etc

Hope it helps :)
Claire Nicholson
2 years ago
It’s a Cotswolds based independent company near us, called Unfitted. It’s the second kitchen we’ve had from them and the quality is really very good.

For the worktops we went for Unistone and got it from Granite Planet in Honeybourne.
Claire Nicholson
2 years ago
This is the full breakdown if it helps - just noticed it was actually slightly more than £30k but not much. The handles added quite a bit extra and £500 of that is LED strips and drivers to light up the inside of the two breakfast cupboards
Sonia
2 years ago
Claire that’s a great thing to do to share the costs of your beautiful kitchen. 😊
Claire Nicholson
2 years ago
@sonia well I’ve got no reason not to share and if it helps someone out then that’s great- all these things are so unknown so I always think it’s better if you’ve got a few comparisons :)
Nekul
Original Author
2 years ago
Claire you are amazing!!! This is such a helpful guide. Did you hire a company with an architect and project manager or did you take this on yourself because if the latter I obviously need to consider that too. It’s a beautiful home - hope you are enjoying it. Thanks so much again
Claire Nicholson
2 years ago
Hi Neha, thank you - it’s not finished yet but we are slowly getting there. We hired an amazing interior designer who has done it all with us- we removed a lot of interior walls and had a LOT of big decisions to make, so it would have been too much for me alone. You can only see half the room in the pics and that was previously 4 separate rooms - there were so many possibilities that without the 3D renders and a designer it would have been almost impossible for me- I just can’t imagine things in my head!!!

Our interior designer did all the concept plans and then we chose the main layout from the 3D images she did for us. After we had decided on the layout, we got and architect to do the formal drawings for the structural engineer and building regs submission.

I should that although those costs are accurate for the kitchen there are a bunch of other costs that aren’t part of the actual kitchen but all still needed paying!!!

Our decorating bill for that room was £1200 labour and £500 for the paint, £4000 on electrics (it’s an Edwardian house, so electrics needed redoing in there), £800 on light fittings and then the flooring which was £4,000 before fitting or underfloor heating.

Just thought they were worth mentioning as it’s things like that that add up quite a bit and I had missed some of them off!!!
Nekul
Original Author
2 years ago
Super helpful. Thanks for openly sharing all the details.
Nekul
Original Author
2 years ago
Louis and Claire,
do you have an architect and builder you can recommend pls? Ours might be out of our pocket now :(
Claire Nicholson
2 years ago
I would recommend our builder in a heartbeat but I’m not sure where you are located- we are Broadway in the central Cotswolds. He works locally, so not sure if that would be in your region?

We used an interior designer for all of our plans and concept planning and then just had an architect do the formal drawings and structutal engineer do the calcs. The architect didn’t actually do any of the design work, so there would be no point in passing in his details as we never even met him!

Our interior designer is amazing and it is the second property we have done with her- Gina from Create Perfect who you will find on here and I cannot recommend highly enough. It is a very cost effective way of designing.
PRO
Create Perfect
2 years ago
Hello All, Thank you Claire Nicholson that's very flattering :)

Nekul, 7-8k sounds reasonable but it does depend on the size of the toilets (or if they are full bathrooms). It also depends on how you want to get the wow factor - through wall coverings, or the sanitaryware itself, or a wow factor layout, will all have different costs involved.

We look at the budget as part of the planning stage of projects. With kitchens, it is really dependent on the size and then the style of kitchen you are looking at.

It can also depend on things like where you are based and the company you are using. 30K-40K sounds like a good starting point and do try getting a few quotes to make sure you are getting a comparison.

You could also try sourcing some parts individually to get the best prices. For example with Claires, we sourced the worktop directly from Granite Planet. With trade discount, this worked out cheaper than getting it as part of a kitchen package. You can also look at sourcing things like appliances and handles separately.
Lois C
2 years ago
@Neku We used a “Design and Build” company: what we wanted was fairly straightforward forward and we were hoping that an integrated approach would be cost effective and well managed.

I would have difficulty recommending them, to be honest, though. Their tradesmen have been really good, although a couple of technical issues: drainage (mostly sorted now, although I had a lot to do with the solution myself - I am an engineer, although not a building / construction engineer) and ducting for our venting hob (annoyingly not yet sorted…).. however, the real issue is financial: they have made a LOT of mistakes in pricing and invoicing and it has been quite stressful. We have had to go through most things with a fine toothed comb. They do charge a flat 20% margin on all contractual materials and labour, but charged 30% for any amendments / additions. This is extra annoying, because - when negotiating the main contracted works - they were always saying “don’t worry, that can be added later!” (Well yes, at a 10% cost increase!).

If you go for a prime contractor, then ensure that you get everything you want in the main contracted works and get the amendments margin agreed in the contract (otherwise you are over a barrel - “oh, existing floor and ceiling joists rotten? amendment, 30% margin thank you!” Etc etc)

So, we have paid all of the materials and labour, plus 20 or 30% margin, plus VAT 😳. We have tried to separate what we can off (and used other tradespeople, who often aren’t VAT registered…. So 50% cheaper than using our builder!)

I would look at an independent project manager: someone who looks at getting the best deals for you and manages things for you.
Nekul
Original Author
2 years ago
Got an estimate from the company who will be working on our project. Is there anything in this I should be questioning or is good to have and not must? I don’t know why we need Pinterest rationalisation at two stages? Thanks!
Arvydas Grabauskas
2 years ago
Rv
Nekul
Original Author
2 years ago
What’s RV?
hedgehog99
2 years ago
I don't know what Pinterest rationalisation is but it looks expensive!
Daisy England
2 years ago
Flipping heck that is one heck of a load of money. I must have been spoilt married to someone in the construction trade but I’d seriously be thinking twice about coughing up for that amount.

As the others have said what is Pinterest Rationalisation?
Lois C
2 years ago
What on earth is “Pinterest rationalisation”?

Who is involved? Architect and interior designer?

We used a “design and build” company. So would not be as expensive as using an architect, but our “design stage” costs were as followed (we started the process last spring):

Stage 1) Site survey and initial drawings for existing and proposed ideas for layout options. Customer meeting to refine design and sign off for further drawings. £1,000. Approx. 2-3 weeks.
Stage 2) Developing and working drawings up for Planning application. £500. Approx. 2 weeks. (If needed)
Stage 3) Construction drawings and Building Control specification. £1,200. Approx. 4 weeks.
Stage 4) Structural engineers drawings and calculations. (Runs along side Stage 3) Estimated at £900. Approx 4 weeks. This is done by a Structural Engineer we work with all the time who is excellent. He will price the works exactly once he has received the initial drawings pack.
Stage 5) Apply for building regulation approval. 6-8 weeks. As per councils fees.
Stage 6) Pricing of the project. No cost. 2 weeks.
Stage 7) Commence works. At pre-agreed date.

So £3,800 (+VAT) + council fees. Got us all design and technical drawings required for planning and building regs.

Our extension / modernisation was not hugely large (single storey), but did include quite a lot of structural work. Even if it was bigger, I wouldn’t have expected a lot more cost.

I would expect to pay more for an architect and something “fancied”, but not as much as you are being quoted. I am assuming that it is just design stage, the project management doesn’t take you through the build? Or does it?
Nekul
Original Author
2 years ago
This is architect, project manager and interior design all in one.
Daisy England
2 years ago
I’m sorry to say but I think you are being ripped off.
Claire Nicholson
2 years ago
So the first thing I would say is that interior design costs money- you would not be comparing apples with apples if you are looking at others people’s costs that don’t include that.

Remind me- how many rooms is this for? The whole downstairs plus a loft conversion? Or is it just one of the rooms downstairs which is a big open plan type space?

From an interior design perspective do you know what you are getting? Does it stop at the 3D renders or are you getting a full design service eg decorating specification including all paint colours, floor coverings, window treatments, then a shopping list with all the recommended furniture and room styling (cushions, ornaments

etc) to finish it off?

If the £20k for the design work includes all things archeitect, structural engineer and full interior design and its essentially for two full floors of the house, then I dont think that is out of the way.

Happy to share a breakdown of what we paid but probably worth understanding what you are and arent getting for that money first, or it might be irrelevant.
Nekul
Original Author
2 years ago
The place will undergo some major changes. And yes Pinterest rationalisation would apparently involve them understanding what we want and then creating mood boards etc but I told them I probably need light touch interior design. This would include their involvement from start to end of the project, which will be a 6 month project
Nekul
Original Author
2 years ago
Claire I don’t know how to private message you. Thanks for your input - you are so kind to share yours.
Nekul
Original Author
2 years ago
This is for a 2200 sq feet home with 5 bedrooms. We are looking at loft extension, having an open and bigger kitchen dining by converting one of the rooms into that space. So you are right, it’s probably not wise to compare :)
Lois C
2 years ago
What is the expected value of the work?

Googling is useful - https://architectureforlondon.com/news/architects-fees-in-the-uk/

Since it is for the duration of the project (and independent - from the builders - project management is a very good thing!) that isn’t as bad.

You have involvement of an architect and an interior designer. London? Assuming a build cost of £250k upwards? Maybe not unreasonable?

There are just different ways to do things: they can be done cheaper, but this may give you a better designed result? Assuming they are well recommended and you have seen other projects and liked them. Have you had other quotes?
Nekul
Original Author
2 years ago
That’s comforting to hear. We love their work. That’s the thing. Plus it will be home for good 15+ years so I want to incorporate my vision and have fun with it but of course have someone guide me through the process.
Claire Nicholson
2 years ago
I cant figure out how to send a private message either!

£15k on interior design / space planning alone was our budget for a 5 bedroom house refurbishment - I would say that ours definitely isnt ’light touch’ though - we get everything from the from the paint specification to a shopping list for every room and then a styling trip to come and do all of the finishing touches. Every room has everything from the floor covering to the window treatments to the files and designs for bespoke furniture. All rooms come with proffesional lighting plans, which can be handed over to an electrician.

We paid around £3k for the structural engineer and £1k for the architect.

We managed the project ourselves, so I dont have a comparison for that element i’m afraid but I certainly dont think that number looks unreasonable.

I would definitely find out exactly what you are going to get for that money but honestly, presuming that the house is of significant value and your build cost is also significant (clearly important for spend to be relative) then that doesnt seem to be an unfair cost to me.

Getting your space planning and interior design right, is a massive part of any project and can vastly change the look and feel of the finished house.

We’ve all seen examples where people have spent A LOT of money on major reburbishments and the end result just looks a bit ’blah’ - its there in my opinion that an extra 5–10% of the overall cost would have completely transformed and ’polished’ the final result. Appreciate design is not possible for everyones budget but if its a possibility for you and you like the quality of their work, then I dont think that figure is out of the way.

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