Advice and Suggestions for Victorian Semi - Optimising Layout

29 days ago

last modified: 28 days ago

Hi,

New home owners wanting to make our home last with a growing family. We’d like a second full bathroom with utilities (currently downstairs is just a toilet) and to create a second living space ideally with open plan living. Its a Victorian semi with the toilet off the kitchen which its limiting. Floor plans in image 1.

Initially we thought about a small extension into the garden to make space for a full bathroom + utilities, but our neighbour has already extended her conservatory there so not sure we could build a wall against it? Does anyone have experience with this? Image 2

Then we thought about a side return extension. But it would require knocking down two load bearing walls which I’m not sure is possible? Obviously the dream would be to move the bathroom completely and have dining at the end with bifolds out to the garden, but again I’m not sure it would be possible due to plumbing etc which is currently down the outside of the house? Also even with this extra space im not sure exactly how we’d lay it out.. my best guess is Image 3? Also this option sounds expensive, I know its hard to say, but does anyone have a rough guess at the cost of this option?

So now we’re thinking a realistic option is to make our kitchen smaller, by shunting it down into the currently unused space adjacent to the dining room. That will make space for a larger bathroom + utilities. Then create an arch between kitchen and diner to create open plan living (though it would be an L shape) and having more of a dining living area. Image 4

Is that a bad move to make our kitchen smaller? Also it will make a small sort of narrow corridor leading out to our back door, I can’t decide if that will look silly (image 4)?

Any thoughts, experiences, layout suggestions or potential issues we haven’t thought of would be greatly appreciated! Many thanks

Featured Answer

Isla Cherry

28 days ago

Reducing the size of a kitchen to allow space for a larger bathroom is not usually a good investment decision. It depends on how long you expect to be in this house. Most people now are looking for a large kitchen preferably with utility (if space allows) and an open plan layout to facilitate family life. You don't say why you need a full bathroom downstairs but I would seriously look at bringing it away from the garden access if possible. Its the opposite of what the market dictates. I am not sure of the planning rules about an extension next to a conservatory but I would get advice from a planning consultant. It's probably the 45deg rule.

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Comments (13)

H A
28 days ago
Agree completely with Isla’s comments, unfortunately can’t see that any of your ideas will add value or give you more space. If it’s downstairs space you’re after, perhaps look at a side return extension. If you have older children you might be better off with a loft conversion. Nothing going to be cheap here, but might be worth waiting and then doing something spectacular! If your kids are small, remember that stage of ‘stuff’ and toys everywhere does not last forever (unfortunately!).
HU-252783829 thanked H A
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Sorry for the very crude sketch but here's my suggestions 1. Knock bathroom extension and replace with 2 story extension squared off with kitchen block or better again if suitable from outside extend kitchen and replacement extension footprint to width of house. 2. Change rise of stairs to opposite side, this benefits upstairs so that the landing can instead become part of a bedroom. Existing staircase could probably be refuges. 3. Put main/family bath where fireplace is as it would prob be easier to work the difficult shape for a bathroom than a bedroom. 3. The new extension upstairs can then become the master bed with space to incorporate ensuite and/walk in wardrobe etc. 4. Put utility space in downstairs hall making use of under stairs as well if possible. WC could possibly also go there. 5. Dining room/kitchen could become open or broken plan with sliding doors connecting. WC could be on opposite wall with garden entice though small boot room as per second photo.
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Hi Kate. We have three children under 8 so are in a similar position to you. If it was my house I would..... In response to your first question, a 33ft x 14ft open plan room would not necessarily be too big, but it would leave you without a downstairs utility or WC. As tamp75 has commented, a hallway is good for isolating noise to upstairs bedrooms, and you need somewhere for coats, bags, shoes etc. With three storeys, having the kitchen open to the hall may create problems with building regulations (fire safety). I'm not an expert in this area but it should be considered. 2. I would definitely reposition the cloakroom. It looks like the drainage to your house will be on the right hand side of the plan, so I would not put the WC under the stairs. Something like Jonathan's second suggestion would work well. 3. I would create a utility room, but only a small one. Large enough to hold a washing machine and tumble drier (stacked to save space), sink and some storage. If you can get hold of a copy of George Clarke's Home Bible he has a whole chapter devoted to utility rooms - it is well worth a read. 4. I would reconfigure the property in a similar manner to Jonathan's second suggestion. The only minor changes would be to move shorten the hall slightly by bringing the entrance to the kitchen level with the stairs, and possibly reconfigure the area for utility/WC/cloaks. I recommend retaining the first floor living room as it stops the house feeling too 'top heavy' and could be a really good family space. 5. It's hard to answer this without knowing more about you. I think it might be possible to have a kitchen, seating area and dining area but I suspect that you might have to make some compromises. You have the potential to create two lounges elsewhere in the house, so I would compromise on the seating area. Given the scale of this project I would take my time to consider all of the options. I think it is definitely worth spending a few £100s on a concept planner as they could save you £1000s in the long run. Good luck.
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A bathroom over the kitchen.- firstly you should get the opinion of an expert if the kitchen would bear the load- it might do. If not you can strengthen the walls, you can put a room above on stilts or you could investigate lighter options such as a prefabricated low weight box extension. As far as the loft conversion goes I think it depends on where the stairs will come up in the available space- I suspect they will come up in the middle and make the space unusable. Other houses in the street may well have a different stair position. As far as extending goes I think I would be considering a full width rear two story extension - is it possible to extend on the side where the front door is?
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Re the lounge area don’t forget it will not have any natural light once doors are closed, it looks quite dark already although that may just be the photo. Definitely consider some roof lights in the roof section that is replacing the conservatory as that will bring more light into the dining area and the lounge through whatever opening you choose. Maybe use glass doors between lounge and diner?
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HU-252783829
Original Author
28 days ago
Thank you both, it’s really helpful to get a different perspective. Maybe we’ve got so wrapped up in a second bathroom we’ve lost sight a bit of what’s sensible/desirable! So you would both think something more like image 3? Is it possible to move plumbing etc to the middle of the house? Loft is an interesting idea we hadn’t thought of!
0
siobhanmcgee90
28 days ago
I agree with both Isla and H A. Adding a full bathroom downstairs will not add value and may even devalue your home.
Isla Cherry
28 days ago
Of all your layouts I think image 3 is the best position for this bathroom if you must have it but it really compromises your dining/living space. You would improve saleability and possibly the value if you had an ensuite and a bathroom upstairs. A wc downstairs is sensible but not where it is currently situated.
siobhanmcgee90
28 days ago
Great advice Isla.
HU-252783829
Original Author
28 days ago
Thank you for all the advice, it’s giving us food for thought! An en-suite would be ideal but I don’t think we’d have the space to add one without making the master really small!
Sonia Fennell
28 days ago
You could turn the dining room window into a door, and either put an arch thru to kitchen or just move the doorway to be central, then you can shift kitchen up, close off door to garden at the end and enlarge the current loo into a small shower room. You can have direct access between kitchens and bathrooms these days I think.. with an arch thru to kitchen you could if it is same level have kitchen along one wall from dining room thru the arch, but there’s often a step down at that threshold in terraces houses.
HU-252783829
Original Author
27 days ago
This is a good idea Sonia! I was actually looking online last night at other houses sold on our street and there are a couple that have done exactly that. There is no step down between diner and kitchen so no issues there. And by putting the door from the dining room we’d still have a view out into the garden. Thank you!
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Bespoke Glazing Design
25 days ago
last modified: 25 days ago

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rinked
19 days ago
last modified: 18 days ago
idea 5 :)

Extend hallway to new wc, open up kitchen-dining wall (RSJ) and move kitchen inward. Add those garden doors you have in mind and dine with a view! If permitted, add a window next to the front door, even satinated will do, plus glass panel doors, to let some light into the kitchen.

If/when budget allows, you could add some width to the rear, shown in lilac here.
HU-252783829
Original Author
5 days ago
Thats an interesting idea we hadnt thought of! And it would keep the plumbing down the outside of the house! Thank you, we’ll have a think about that one.
0
PRO
Oraanj Interior Design
yesterday
Hi there,

Congratulations on your new home! It's exciting that you're planning ahead for a growing family, and it sounds like you've already put a lot of thought into maximizing the space. I’ll try to break down some potential considerations based on your ideas:

1. Garden Extension and Neighbor's Conservatory:

If your neighbor has already extended into their garden with a conservatory, you may face restrictions on building right up against their wall. Local planning regulations (and sometimes party wall agreements) can vary, so it's worth contacting your local planning authority or seeking advice from a professional surveyor to check what is possible. If there's a way to still do it, a garden extension could be a great way to add a second full bathroom + utilities.

2. Side Return Extension:

Knocking down load-bearing walls is definitely a more complex and costly option. It’s not impossible, but you would need a structural engineer to assess and design support for the new layout (steel beams are often used to replace load-bearing walls). The side return extension could create a beautiful open-plan space with bi-fold doors, but you’re right to be cautious about the plumbing and the cost. Re-routing plumbing can be done, but it adds to the budget, and side return extensions often require both planning permission and structural work.

In terms of cost, for a full side return extension (depending on location, materials, finishes, etc.), you're likely looking at a broad range from £40,000 to £80,000, though it could be more depending on structural challenges and finishes.

3. Smaller Kitchen / Arch to Create Open Plan Living:

Moving the kitchen into unused space and shunting it down to create room for a larger bathroom + utilities could be a smart use of space. An L-shaped kitchen diner could still work well for a family, especially if you integrate smart storage and ensure the kitchen remains functional.

Regarding the corridor leading to the back door, it might feel narrow, but this depends on how it's designed. As long as it's well-lit and kept clear of clutter, it may not look silly at all. Sometimes, small design details like using glass doors, open shelving, or strategic lighting can help make narrow corridors feel more spacious.

General Thoughts:
- Flow and Layout: Consider how the new layout will affect the overall flow of the house. A kitchen that feels smaller could still be very efficient if it's well-designed, and the open-plan dining-living area could make the home feel more spacious overall.
- Utilities: Keep in mind the cost and complexity of moving major plumbing (especially if the bathroom will shift entirely) and ensure you account for enough space for your growing family's needs.
- Resale Value: Lastly, while it’s important to make the space work for your family, try to think about how future buyers might perceive changes like a smaller kitchen. That said, a second full bathroom and an open-plan space will likely be big selling points.
Final Suggestions:
- It might be helpful to consult with an architect or a space-planning expert. They can help visualize how your ideas could work practically and may suggest ways to maximize space without compromising the feel of your home.
- You could also look into software tools that allow you to create 3D models of your floor plans to better understand the flow and space before committing to any major changes.
I hope that helps! Best of luck with your renovation plans, and I’d love to hear how it turns out.

Many thanks!
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Advice and Suggestions for Victorian Semi - Optimising Layout

Isla Cherry

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H A

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Advice and Suggestions for Victorian Semi - Optimising Layout

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