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sally_harrison68

Placement of dining & family area

LTS
7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago

Hi. We are having an extension across the back of our house. I'm thinking of putting a U shaped kitchen in the extension next to the existing utility. Do you think the dining area is best placed next to the Bifolds so that it gets lots of natural light? And the family area in the existing part of the house with extra artificial lighting (uplighters/lamps etc?) as it won't have any windows? We haven't decided on roof lights yet as contemplating a double pitched roof or a pitched flat roof first. Thanks!

Featured Answer
  • septimus1
    7 years ago

    Hi,

    See attached as something to play around with.

    Septimus

    Comments (37)

    • LTS
      Original Author
      7 years ago
      Or this idea? I'm after the feeling of space. What do you think?
    • bookworm987
      7 years ago

      Just wondering which direction the bifolds are facing? That will affect the amount of natural light at certain times of day, so you can then make a decision based on when/where you do or don't want natural light. I love the idea of the walk in larder on the second pic, you could fit one in the other layout too, in the top left hand corner.

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      I made two different layouts of your house. Hope it may inspire. Left: First floor similar to yours, but some tweaks on the wardrobe and ensuite area, to make better use of the space (in my opinion). Ensuite is 170cm wide, so either walk-in shower or bath tub would fit. Hinged or pocket door, I'm not set on a type. Created a landing cupboard for towels and such. Utility could be a bit wider, as 160cm is tight. Hallway has a shelf or shallow shoe cabinet next to the front door, more place to stand and welcome people. Coats with bench can go a bit further in. Lounge rotated as interior psychology makes us feel more at ease when we can see who's coming in. Kitchen in C shape, nice looking hutch opposite, tall units in the middle of the room, bench with storage (under and above) top right with table. And an extra sofa. Right: First floor completely different. Extension has two smaller bedrooms and new bathroom. Two bedrooms on the right turned into master suite, bathroom wall moved over to the right. Again added a landing cupboard. Kitchen diner with an island looking into the room (though the whole thing could be rotated ccw if you don't want the sink to go under the window), round table with very comfy chairs, so a sofa is not required. Plenty space on the sides for storage and play. (to return a favour paypal.me/rinkedit)
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    • LTS
      Original Author
      7 years ago
      Thank you. The garden is s/w facing so lots of natural light in the afternoon. Sorry, where abouts would you place a larder in the first plan?
    • bookworm987
      7 years ago

      I think you could put one in the corner between hob and sink. You'd lose some counter space but corner counters and corner units are awkward to access anyway. It wouldn't need to be very big- a metre squared is plenty if you shelve floor to ceiling - keep a step stool in there- and have a variety of deep and narrow shelves. You could angle the door between the two counters.

    • LTS
      Original Author
      7 years ago
      Ahh yes. I'm not a fan of larders like that as I much prefer the sharp lines of a worktop going round the corner. Being so close to the utility I'd have the opportunity to utilise cupboards in there. Decisions, decisions...:)
    • PRO
      AlenaCDesign
      7 years ago

      Hi there, I like your floor plan and location for different areas make perfect sense. I'd go for your layout. The only detail, did you draw floor plan with actual size and proportion? Make sure you plan min 610mm width for each seat at the breakfast bar. Good luck with project!

    • LTS
      Original Author
      7 years ago
      Hi Alena thank you for your advice re 610mm space per stool. The plan is pretty much to scale apart from the larder, stool spacing, sofa & desk. Do you think there is enough free space between each area for ease of movement when we have guests over? I really want space!
    • LTS
      Original Author
      7 years ago
      Oh & these are some of my older ideas I tried. The kitchen units in options A would need to start in front of the chimney (not shown in the plan) so would get a larder in the bottom corner again & could have appliance garage along that back wall. Architect has done survey so am waiting for his ideas too :)
    • Daisy England
      7 years ago
      That's some lovely floor space area to work with. I personally like the plan in your second post.
    • LTS
      Original Author
      7 years ago
      Thank you Daisy!

      septumus1 thank you so much for taking the time to sketch a plan. Unfortunately your image is very small & I'm struggling to see your writing when I enlarge it. Could you make it bigger please? :)
    • septimus1
      7 years ago

      Hi - Hope this is better! Let me know.

      Septimus

      BTW - only meant to give slightly more accurate plan. If you have the basic wall to wall dims of the area shown on my sketch send them on to me.

      . I suggest it might be easier for you to then cut out pieces of paper to the sizes of the furniture you will be using and move them around on the more accurate plan to get the best results.

    • LTS
      Original Author
      7 years ago
      Hi septimus1 many thanks for this. I'm unsure about boxing in the kitchen (although can see it is open to the extension at the back) as I want the feeling of space as you enter the room from the hall & fear the it will feel corridoory from the front door down to the extension. It is definitely an idea to play with though & much appreciated :)
    • PRO
      AlenaCDesign
      7 years ago
      last modified: 7 years ago

      LTS,
      roughly looking at your sketch I would say, you will have enough space
      to move around but you can say for sure when you see all your furniture
      on a plan and cabinets in scale. Practically if you plan to entertain in
      your kitchen and dining, both areas should be "see through" and close
      to each other as on your first plan and more light and sun always create
      nice mood, especially when you open your folding doors to patio and
      enjoy your meal on a fresh air. As for the family room, then what
      furniture arrangement do you plan? Will be area with TV on a wall? or
      may be you will go for quiet chill out and conversational atmosphere
      area?

      Living Room · More Info
      Answers on these questions will help to create your vision of the space you have.

      In addition, it is great to have architect on board when you are building but it is more effective when you have interior designer on board. Architect makes sure that your house and new construction is safe and designer makes sure that your internal space will be practical and satisfy your lifestyle. If you know a designer in your area, call for a help with floor plans, if you enjoy decorating yourself then keep this part to yourself :) If you like, you can contact me privately to discuss how I can help you, I make plan as a part of my service. In any case, I'm glad to help with an advice!

    • PRO
      Evolv Design
      7 years ago

      Hi. I really like Septimus's layout, but would suggest opening up the space and adding a large kitchen island. See sketch. Just a thought...

    • PRO
      N7 Design Studio Ltd.
      7 years ago

      Personally, I think you're initial sketch looks fine. Having the utility and the kitchen close means there shouldn't be any issues with drainage. I would, however, swap the family and dining areas (I know this is just a matter of moving furniture) but I think the family area will be used a lot more than the dining area. The family area will benefit from the light (potentially velux roof lights or roof lantern?) and view to the garden . The dining area will be used less frequently and allow the passage through to the extension and you could have attractive pendant light fitting hanging down over the table.

    • PRO
      Evolv Design
      7 years ago

      Click on icon...it will open.

    • LTS
      Original Author
      7 years ago
      Thank you, thank you everyone! So very kind to offer advice :) The problem is I like elements of all of them so need to think about how we live more in general. The seating area probably won't have a TV, especially if situated in the old part of the house as it would be competing with the playroom TV! A quiet area to sit/read/talk. I like the kitchen in the top left corner because then I can have a window & also the wall will block out the sun until it gets into the back garden. (I'm not a fan of hot weather). But I also like kitchens with a straight run & a long island in front. Ugh...no wonder the new kitchen has been in the planning stage for nearly 1.5 years as I could never get the layout or space I wanted, hence why we are now knocking down the conservatory & extending. Will have a look at it when the kids are in bed. Many thanks again :)
    • PRO
      AlenaCDesign
      7 years ago

      LTS, it is hard task to understand your lifestyle but once you make this homework, the project and final look will pay you back. A little tip: imagine yourself in new space in the morning, in the afternoon, evening, weekend, party days and so on...try to draw a picture what you want to see or how you want to feel when you enter into new space, what would you like to do there, your kids, husband, guests etc. play each routine scenario how you would move around and other people in different time. It will all help you to build idea of how you need arrange things around.

      Another thing, keep a little room for compromise among space and comfortable lifestyle. Give more credit to comfortable living rather than look from your imagination or from inspiration. Unfortunately, sometimes our space has limits. Best of Luck with project!

    • ianthy
      7 years ago

      We opted for your plan A and moved the kitchen to the back of the room with the utility room behind it - the builder loved having all the drainage in one place. This allowed the dining area and sofas to come to the front and take advantage of the garden views thru the bi-fold doors etc., I think it's really a matter of personal preference but I felt that when I'm in the kitchen I am too busy to look outside plus we have good lighting in that area via a skylight etc. For the dining and relaxing zone, I didn't want to be tucked away at the back of the room. we also have a roof light over the dining table zone.

    • Angie
      7 years ago
      We bought our house last year and had been looking for an open plan living/dining/kitchen space, but we found many that we viewed just seemed soul-less. And they lacked kitchen storage space. In the end we bought a small Edwardian property with a large kitchen that had been extended and we use that space for daily living, with a small "study" area and a table and chairs, and then retreat to the snug lounge for cosy evenings in front of the log burner we had installed. We'd never imagined not having open plan, but are so glad with what we have. Mind you, we don't have children at home so it's just the two of these days.
      All that said, I like the suggestion of having the kitchen away from the bifold doors, with seating and dining open to the garden for when the weather is good enough. Or how about moving the play area towards the bifolds so the children have easy access to the garden?
      It all looks very exciting so enjoy planning and doing!
      Angie
    • LTS
      Original Author
      7 years ago
      last modified: 7 years ago

      Thanks everyone for your tips & advice.
      Alena preferably I would like to see all areas whilst I am cooking to be able to help the children doing homework, arts & crafts (keeping a steady eye on that glue, marker pens...!) or reading / iPad use in the family area. The long run kitchen plan would tick all of these boxes but encroaches on floor space for the family/dining zones. I would be happy with a small sofa & chair or couple of chairs plus a coffee table, bookcase & a nice rug for the family area. I do have an interest in interior design & am enjoying researching different options/styles :)
      N7 a couple of neighbour friends have a similar layout to the one you prefer & I know it works well for them.
      ianthy the dark part of the house is where the current dining room & kitchen are so there shouldn't be a problem with drainage there. We will be removing the dividing wall. Good tip about being too busy when cooking to fully enjoy the garden!
      angm47 I have 3 lively kids so do not envisage filling/utilising the space will be a problem ;) We already have a big conservatory that we use a lot (with a family & study areas) which the larger extension will replace.
      Thanks again everyone. Fab advice. Love this site!!

    • minnie101
      7 years ago

      I personally prefer the 2nd option you posted on Tuesday. The main kitchen area, living and dining are all getting the light. The bar stools overlook the garden and you have a view of the whole space plus play room. As you've got a separate living room i do think the seating area for here shouldnt be prioritised over a large kitchen or there's a danger the living room wouldn't be used (personal view obviously!). I might move the utility door to the kitchen side. I might also consider a round table (5ft) which should give you a little more space for a small sofa and chairs. Is the desk for adult or child use?

    • LTS
      Original Author
      7 years ago
      last modified: 7 years ago

      Hi Minnie thanks for this. The desk will mainly be for when my husband works from home 2-3 times PER MONTH (hence why I'm not wanting to create a separate study room as the kids are all in f/t education & all have a desk in their bedrooms). We have a large desk in that area now (in the conservatory) with printer etc. I'm looking at wrap around doors to have the potential to keep it hidden but I don't think it will really matter if it is on view in that location. We have contemplated moving the utility door but like where the washing machine & tumble dryer are currently stacked to the side as you enter, with a fridge freezer next to them, because we would lose space if we had to shift them to the long wall to create a new door.
      Good point about the family area, a small sofa & chair or couple of chairs would suffice...what with 6-8 dining chairs plus 3 stools there should be ample place to sit down! I did this rough plan incase we only get 3m at the boundary wall (we are semi-detached & already have a double storey side extension so will need planning). We are going to talk to the neighbours before we submit plans to take into account any concerns they may have. If we only went out 3m there we could possible go out 4.3m or so where the living/dining area is. It should still work well. One thing I'm concerned about is that as soon as the sun starts to come round the back of the house from lunchtime it could be streaming through the Bifolds unless I get integrated blinds or something. Thanks very much for your help :)

    • minnie101
      7 years ago

      Hi. Just another couple of thoughts. Can the desk go in the play room if the kids are at school? I assume you have 2 FF's? (Great idea!). The kitchen space should be big enough to incorporate 2 to enable you to move the utility door? Hopefully the neighbours will be happy with your plans but if not the 3m on that side is still good. My brother recently built an extension (south facing) with bifolds and 2 lanterns. He's already looking to get I think the solar window film on the lanterns. That's another option or the solar control glass although I have no idea on costs..I think the glass is meant for south facing rooms with long hours of sun exposure

    • LTS
      Original Author
      7 years ago
      last modified: 7 years ago

      Hi minnie - thanks for your reply. Unfortunately there isn't room for a desk in the playroom. It already has a sofa, 2 IKEA expedit units (stacked like a chimney), a bookcase & a TV with stand. Oh, & lets not forget...too many toys! If my husband has a conference video call when the kids are at home he uses the desk in our eldest son's bedroom, which is quite comical as it has Minecraft prints on the wall!
      We currently have an under counter fridge in the kitchen plus the FF in the utility. In the new kitchen I would like a large larder fridge & will use the FF fridge for drinks & the FF freezer as normal. It is definitely something still to consider but the builder said there would be a lot of pipework to reroute plus the consumer unit to rehome, which could stack up the £££s. After having a conservatory (inherited) for 6.5 years I'm happy to block out as much sun/heat as possible :) We did insulate the conservatory roof & put in a false ceiling so have managed to enjoy the space for 3 out of 4 seasons of the year. Roll on the extension though!! :)

    • Elliott Cook
      7 years ago

      Afternoon - we're working on a brand-new ITV property show that is going to showcase some of the UK's most inspiring and aspirational renovations - your kitchen design looks wonderful! Check out the link below - drop us a line if you're interested. All the best, Elliott




    • LTS
      Original Author
      7 years ago
      last modified: 7 years ago

      Ok, have narrowed it down to two...I'm favouring my plan with the Long Island (2nd photo) but only if the special reflective glass in the doors works effectively & is within budget. Otherwise plan b (3rd photo) as then I can have a vertical blind on the kitchen window to slat & the dining table is away from direct sunlight so you there is no need to wear sunglasses whilst eating/working. Living area by the bifolds to snooze in the afternoon sun...who am I kidding with 3 kids?!! Thanks again everyone you've been great at helping me make decisions :)

    • LTS
      Original Author
      7 years ago
      last modified: 7 years ago

      Hi everyone this is what the Architect has come up with. Any thoughts? We don't need a study, a study area would be sufficient. We feel the kitchen is big enough as it is pretty similar to what we have now & we'd also like an eye level larder fridge & oven.
      Going back to my first sketch (but swapping the living & dining area round) I do like the fact that there would be a window we could open rather than a door. If we put a window near the kitchen area of my second sketch then you wouldn't get that clear line of view from the front porch through the bifolds/sliding doors (haven't decided which yet) to the garden. Still undecided!!!! Any inspiration greatly received :)

    • PRO
      BI-FOLD DOOR FACTORY
      7 years ago
      last modified: 7 years ago

      We would be delighted to help provide you with further clarity on whether to opt for sliding or bi-fold doors. Contact us for expert advice.

    • septimus1
      7 years ago

      Hi LTS,

      The sketch plan your architect has come up with is not what I would expect from a 'qualified' architect. If you didn't request a study why is it included? The dining table is orientated such that three of the eight seats do not allow a view of the garden but face the kitchen. The door to the utility room is in the wrong location which should be adjacent the kitchen and I'm not sure you need anything like the length of the utility room as shown. There could have been a little more thought given to structural matters at this stage - eg: the beam above kitchen will be large, expensive and cumbersome to install correctly. On the plus side the overall planning principles are OK - but the whole plan needs to be prepared to a larger scale (1:50) and to indicate clearly where each piece of furniture is to be placed and how the kitchen functions (worktop/cooker/worktop/sink sequence) before you make any commitments to the architect's proposal. Get into the whole detail of the plan now and avoid the headaches of having to alter designs as the work proceeds. There should be no charge from the architect for requesting this second stage work by the way. You should also insist on receiving an elevation and a section drawing at this stage together with a clear indication of how the extension will look when viewed from the garden and, most importantly what the architect thinks the whole of the work will cost and how long will it take. (If you have already received this information my apologies)

    • LTS
      Original Author
      7 years ago
      Hi septimus1 thanks for your post. The Architect said he'd do plans with/without a study & this is just his first version. The door to the existing utility hasn't been moved because the consumer unit & a lot of piping would need to be moved, which could be costly. We haven't decided against that option yet but need to think about £££. Which beam do you mean - between the old house & extension? The wall between the current dining room & kitchen is not load bearing. Thankfully! We have hard copy plans in a scale 1:50 of existing plans/elevations & proposed plans/elevations & he has given us an estimate of what he thinks the build will cost etc. Thanks soooo much for your information septimus1, it's extremely kind of you to ensure we are receiving good service :)
    • LTS
      Original Author
      7 years ago
      Looking through old posts...still haven't made a decision! LOL
    • Carolina
      7 years ago
      Hi, whichever layout you go for, if you want to watch television in there, do think about where your TV would go. Sometimes people focus so much on the kitchen that they forget simple things like that.
    • LTS
      Original Author
      7 years ago
      Hi Caroline. We aren't planning on having a TV in the family area (we have one in the playroom & one in the living room). We'd like a TV in the kitchen area instead. Many thanks :)
    • PRO
      AC Design Solutions
      7 years ago
      hello I wouldn't put it near the bi fold. You want to give that feel that the dwelling is spacious.
    • LTS
      Original Author
      7 years ago
      Hi AC Design Solutions sorry what wouldn't you put near the Bifolds? Sorry, I'm confused!
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