you could also split the living room and put the bedroom in the right half which would mean not having to refit the kitchen

ah yes but it's a 21 ft high ceiling there (in the reception room area) and you'd loose the 'height effect' when you walk in I think (sorry should have mentioned this)

Could you not create a small hallway and put a door between the staircase and new kitchen living area. Or is the mezzanine level still open to the floor below? Can't quite tell from the plan. You can get incredibly quiet dishwashers now. Mine I can't even tell I've actually turned it on sometimes! Not sure about fridges though. I'd then have the bedroom as the bit of kitchen with the window and a jack and jill windowless shower room that can be accessed from the new small hallway. Could you squeeze your washing machine into the space under the stairs?

Hi. Can I ask why you want to do this? A windowless kitchen and a tiny living/dining area doesn't sound appealing personally if I'm honest for a 3 bed property particularly with such a high ceiling. It sounds like a great flat and I'd be worried about devaluing the property. If it's a guest room needed can you not just add a sofa bed and perhaps a tiny shower under the bathroom?You can also use sliding doors so the room can be closed off. I may well be wrong but it might be worth talking to an estate agent unless this is your forever home?

Hi there - thanks for your ideas - things I should have mentioned -

1. it's a listed building - I can't add more windows sadly

2. the flat is the ground floor of a bigger building (a victorian school) so I can's go outside the parameters on the plan sadly. Or extend anywhere.

3. I do get your point about a windowless kitchen - however I need to rent out a second bedroom and I think I will be able to get a 'proper' rent for a bedroom with bathroom and window rather than the current second bedroom (which only has a balcony onto the living space and shared bathroom). I was going to use this windowless bedroom as a little sitting room/tv room with a sofa bed for guests, and have one full time lodger with their own bathroom downstairs.

Any further thoughts most welcome - thank you so much for your help - all valid points!

Perhaps there is a way of just adding a bathroom to the main bedroom on the right? Building the mezzanine out further. Or even just splitting the current bathroom to make 2 small ones.

What are the exact dimensions of that space in the bedroom with the window?

about 1.5m x 1.5 m I think (have not moved in yet so am not there at the moment) - and floor plans from estate agents, in my experience, can often be wrong!

here's a quick vid I took of the space (annoyingly doesn't focus enough on the important bits!) https://youtu.be/5xDYVEsJvrU

It seems to me that I don't need space for the table in kitchen as I will have big table in main reception room probably.

Wow, it looks great, I love it! It's not in Greenwich is it? Looks really familiar! That space looks a little bigger on plan and in the video (wanted to slow down your walking!). I think it might be feasible, it looks longer than 1.5, maybe see if you can get the exact measurements. I might actually keep a small table in the kitchen with a banquette seat and small tv on the wall so the lodger has another space they can use for relaxing? The only issue is sound travelling from the balcony but couldn't see that properly, will have to watch the video again

it's not in Greenwich but is in south London. What would you suggest minnie101 for the 1.5m in the main bedroom?

I am also open to having shower in bedroom downstairs and separate loo with basin somehow

Hi, just before everyone gets gung ho with what you could do....................Flats are usually leasehold, therefore, you cannot make internal structural alterations without the consent of the Freeholder and planning permission. There is no permitted development on Flats. So, you would have to factor the planning application cost in to the equation, the wait for it to come through, the fact it may not be granted and the requirement with the Freeholder.

I fear that you may not get permission as a lot of the planning has to do with bedrooms / car parking space and occupancy.

Close then! Well I think it looks longer than you've said on the plan, plus you've got wardrobes there? Assuming it's fine for utilities it may work with a 1200x700 shower where the wardrobe is with slim storage shelves next to it, loo under the window and a slim sink opposite. You could then put a half height wall concealing the loo from the bedroom and then glaze the top to still allow light from the window and then obviously move the bedroom door so it's opposite the storage. I think I would glaze that balcony too for privacy. Personally I would be really nervous re adding a bedroom downstairs, that living space is fantastic and you've got to bear in mind you need consent for any changes.

Hi there - thanks for the above - it is a freehold flat. And we are allowed to change internal walls so long as we let directors of building know. Like the idea about the small bathroom within bedroom - the balconies do have glass doors. Keen to have air from the external window as well in the bedroom but there may be a clever way to do this with half wall as you say.

Well you could do something like below but with frosted glass on the last one. I also think it's a bit wider than 1.5 but as I say it would be good to get exact measurements to see if it's feasible and you need to find out about utilities but given where the bathroom is it may be do'able. You could also put glazed doors on (as I think Jonathan and Hugh will hate my suggestion for open plan!!). I couldn't see the glazed balcony, must be very clean glass! I'm not sure if it differs for a flat but if it doesn't you'll also need listed building consent to add the bathroom and make changes to the door but that's free

Another idea might be to put a narrow sink in where the wardrobe is in the left bedroom that you can walk past to a small shower and loo. Then have shower, loo and basin the the right half of what is now the old bathroom for guests and the right hand bedroom to use.

no can't go up sadly

Dear all, If you want to add a bathroom, you have to start there and work everything else round it. The reason for this being that you usually have to feed into the existing soil pipe. The soil pipe in this case is on the left hand outside wall.

Without knowing if you can put another one on another outside wall ie the rear, which is probably unlikely, you have no option but to place a bathroom as close to the entrance on the left as possible.

Obviously you could change the system in the new bathroom to a macerator style toilet, and technology has come a long way with regards those, but they are not for everyone.

It may be possible to change the shape of the kitchen, remove the back entrance and push the front wall back, ( maybe not, as i presume it's instrumental in holding up the mezzanine )

If it were possible in theory:- You could - move the kitchen wall back to make more room in the lounge. Add a bathroom with pocket doors ahead of you when you come in and split the lounge down the middle. You could also have a pocket door entrance from the bedroom to the bathroom jack and jill style. That bedroom would also get the balcony.

In agreement with OnePlan, it's just not going to work is, let's face it!

there is actually a soil pipe on the right hand external wall - to the right of the cooker...

i don't think splitting the downstairs would work well due to the ceiling heights in the living space - you'd get narrow very tall rooms!

there would still be living space as the current left bedroom would be a sitting room

I personally feel that it will spoil the whole feel and look of the entire space. As Karen says it's been specifically thought and very well to be a 2 bed. If you need space for guests use some clever zoning in the spacious lounge area and get a sofa bed.

yes understand that - but am still keen to have a second bathroom (and utility) even if there's not another bedroom.

As far as i am aware & don't shoot me down in flames:- Flats are leasehold, some and we own two like this, are leasehold with a SHARE of the Freehold. We own the freehold for the whole building. The freehold governs the land that the building is built on , the flats are then leasehold with or without a share of the freehold.

Because of this, a lot of what you do in a flat is covered by planning requirements, for protection of other residents of the building.

Also, with regards the placement of the kitchen. which happens to be by somebody's soil stack................I agree that it is the only one that you are likely to be able to reach, possibly. You will require building regs. You may well be able to get a shower room in on towards the rear on the right, but i think that ditching the extra bedroom would be for the best.

Hope you get on well with your project!