One vote for no cans in a bedroom.

Here are the problems with cans:
- they are horribly inefficient - light gets directed downward, not sideways.
- they are good for 2 things - task and accent/artwork lighting - not really child's bedroom lighting.
- they are expensive - not horribly so but the bulbs are not cheap and that is ongoing cost.
- They create yet another hole into unconditioned space (at least when they are on a second floor like a bedroom). They can't really be insulated well above and they are rarely air sealed adequately despite being called airtight.
- they are visually disturbing to look at when on - can you imagine staring up at them from bed?
- they are not "pretty" when off either.

Our builder typically does them in master bedrooms and we deleted it. They might be good for cleaning I guess. We have them in our living room and never use them. Absolutely never. We do use the accent lights on the fireplace though.

What did I do and would I do? Ceiling fan lights when appropriate that face down so that the fan doesn't flicker the lights and lamps (switched at the entrance door)

I have to agree with David, we have been in our new home 5 months...and I hardly ever use ANY of our cans! He is right, they might come in handy if you are cleaning your house at night. I never use the ones in the kitchen, family room or study. Between the UCLs, the light in the vent over the range, the pendants and the bfast chandy...there is absolutely no need for them in the kitchen, they are redundant. I like lamps so much better. I am super glad I didn't put them in the kid's bedrooms, what a waste that would have been. In dd's room, I have 2 lamps and a small chandy overhead. In ds's room, I also have 2 lamps and a fan with a light. The guest room is lit by wall switched lamps. I was so flummoxed with lighting by the time we got to the master bedroom that I gave up. I had NO IDEA what to do. The ceiling is ridiculously high, there is nothing on top if the master, so dh told the builder to take the ceiling all the way to the rafters and put in beams. I couldn't decide if it needed a fan to circulate air or a chandy to look pretty. I did have the presence of mind to veto the cans the electrician helpfully offered up. So right now, we have two lamps on a switched outlet, and a covered ceiling mount for either a fan or chandy, and big loops in the walls for wall sconces (which I haven't found yet that I like.) So, 2 lamps in a 16x17' room with a 19' ceiling. Fab. But at least no overly bright cans!

A vote for cans!

Our previous MBR had a tray ceiling with a fan / light combination in the center and four recessed cans - one in each corner. We used small (35 watt?) bulbs in the cans with a remote controllable dimmer switch. The soft lighting from the cans was so much nicer than staring at the fan lights above. We will be following this same scheme in our new home as well.

I vote no cans. We've never had them and have never wanted them. But I've been in masters with them and feel no need. I liked the calm feeling that lamps provide. That and a good overhead light (alone or in a fan) is plenty). I like my MBR to be serene and cans are not serene IMO. I put my overhead light on a dimmer even! I've never needed more light than that in our bedroom ever. Cans are overkill for us.

Recessed ceiling fixtures can be fine if they light walls with a focused beam but if you don't like them sconces are fine too just don't put a light in the center of a bedroom ceiling hung below a fan where it will be in your eyes; light in a bedroom should be more subtle than that. When you are reading in bed the only light should be over your shoulder and when watching television a light should not be reflected in the screen.

Best lighting for master bedroom is uplight from a fan. The light washes the ceiling and does not flicker from the fan. We have ours on the fan remote dimmer. Soothing and romantic if desired. Only a few (?one) fans provide this option - I think ours are Minka. This is not an updirected light under the fan - the light comes from above the fan. Ours does not have a visible bulb or glass - in fact it just looks like a fan only.

CEILING FAN WITH LIGHT

CONCEALED WALL-WASHER RECESSED LIGHTS

A wall-washer recessed light is not considered a "downlight" because it puts most of it's light on the wall (if selected, sized and located properly) so they would be considered "accent-lights".

These photos are not the best examples of what I would do. I would put individual wall-washers at the side walls of the bedroom and light art work on the bed wall with a small hooded LV recessed adjustable accent light or a frame mounted light on a separate switch or let it be lighted indirectly by shaded bedside lights.

I'm going to jump in with a question (for Renovator)--I can see accent lighting working well for evening light. However, what do you recommend for someone who lives under gray skies 98% of the time (Seattle area here, with the added shade of the house of very tall, century old, doug firs). Lots of windows work in most of the country, but not here. So, if I need light to see what I am doing during the day (for example, changing bed sheets, putting away my clothes, etc), what kind of light then?

I try to design the lighting for a room in several steps. First I light task areas like desks, work surfaces, tables, built-in cabinets, shelving, bedside reading lights, then I light the walls especially where art work might be hung, then I try to find a way to not add additional lights and find out where the owner might want table/floor lamps or chandeliers.

If the room is so large that more lights are needed I usually use deeply recessed lights in open areas on a separate switches so they can be turned on when needed for cleaning, entertaining, etc.

Thanks for all the information, so glad I asked for your opinions. Lighting is very important to me and well worth the research NOW (before we break ground). I will go over this with DH and make sure we are covered for all our lighting needs.

We had very large rooms (in my opinion) in our last home. The kitchen was something like 26' X 19' and the lighting (again in our opinion) was great. We had 2 chandeliers over the large island, another chandelier open to the kitchen over the nook and a ceiling light above the sink. In addition we had, if memory serves me, about 9 or 10 can lights. I have no idea how the lighting would have been adequate in that kitchen without the cans. I don't dislike cans (especially on dimmers), but I rather use attractive chandeliers, pendants and sconces. However, I'm just wondering in a larger kitchn, for example, how would one go about this without cans. I admit I like the sun and bright rooms. We will soon have our sixth boy and spend time doing homework, baking, etc in the kitchen. It seems that you need adequte lighting for these activities. Thanks for your input.

Thanks Renovator, for your reply. I was guessing you were going to say separate switches.

6boys! Any nieces in your family?

I vote for cans. While I agree that they aren't the most attractive lighting options, they are effective at lighting up a space. We have 4 boys, and I don't know about you, but our boys are really physical. We have a few lamps around the house (and I love lamps), but we really can't have more without constantly worrying that our boys are going to break them in the course of their wrestling/horsing around. We really try to simplify our lives and from a practicality standpoint, can lights are great. We have fans with lights in all the bedrooms, but I agree that they alone don't provide enough light in a bedroom. We have 4 cans in each of our bedrooms in addition to the fan/light combo. Anyway, for us, I felt like we really needed lighting that was out of reach of our boys.

I am not a fan of cans, but they are a necessary evil to me because I also don't like dark rooms. We have no cans in dining room, library, family room, or any bedrooms. We do have them in the basement (TONS - didn't want a dark basement), kitchen, hallways, laundry, back hall, etc.

I am putting them all on dimmers, though . . .

The other issue is budget. We took cans out of several of the closets and opted for a ceiling fixture to save a little money.

A recessed fixture is not appropriate in a walk-in closet because it forces light down or to one side (wall-washer). A closet needs light distributed in all directions. There is one line voltage recessed light that does that (a "cross-blade") if you want to save some money and hide the light source a bit.

The point of recessed lights is to hide the source of the light better. Many electricians do not fully appreciate that and often recommend 6 inch recessed fixtures with large R lamps that have such a large beam spread that they reduce the total number of fixtures needed. These fixtures are easily noticed on the ceiling and the R-40 lamps often project below than the ceiling. A better fixture is a recessed 5" or 4" one with a deeply recessed line voltage LED, or PAR lamp or an adjustable Low Voltage MR16 lamp.

The design principle that is the most difficult to communicate to electricians is that it is more important to light walls than floors. I don't know but I suspect that comes from looking at layouts as 2D plans instead of 3D spaces where reflected light lights other parts of the room. Borrowed light is often the best light.

Cans cans and more cans. I love them in my kids rooms. I had the builder put a light switch right by the bed so they could turn them off without getting out of bed. They read now in bed!

We did 4 and 5 inch cans only except we did do can fans in the toilet areas. . . was pushed to do that and we will see if I regret it ;). . . .

I think the architect put cans in the walk in closets because they were sleeker looking. I am not worried about my 6 year old's closet being sleek, however, so we switched to basic flush mounts in there. . .

I have learned a lot from this feedback. We will most definitely be adding more task lighting and additional lighting in the bedrooms along side the fans. Thank you!

Yes, we will have six boys...soon! We have lamps in our master bedroom only...LOL!

My sister has 5 girls to add to the boys!

I just thought of our past chandeliers and the only time I think the boys had a purpose for these beautiful lights...to hang "fake" spider webs for Halloween...Boys!

The one thing that no one has mentioned is that the best lighting is always in layers. I would never have just can lights in my bedroom. Can lights / down lights are usually used for general lighting, not task lighting. Bedside lamps or wall sconces are an additional layer that provide low levels of light for reading at night or when low level lighting is needed. The other thing to remember is most of the time when you are in your bedroom, your eyes are closed.

No one ever wants to walk into a dimly lit bedroom, think ceiling fan/ light combo with "soft white" incandescent lamps. You also don't want to be blinded either. However, dimming the amount of light is usually much easier and cheaper than trying to add additional light fixtures.

I wouldn't rule out using can lights in my bedroom, but I also wouldn't want it as my only source of light in the bedroom.

I also don't agree with Renovator8's comment about the trim size for cans. A 6" can is the most commonly sized down light. Most builders use them because they are common and therefore cheap. They can designed for most common household lamps including both PAR, R style, and "A" style lamps. "A" style lamps are the pear shaped incandescent lamps that most people refer to as bulbs or lamps for their home. An "A" lamp does a great shop of spreading light, but not at delivering it. Most of the light is usually lost within the fixture. Many builders use PAR or R style lamps because due to the way the lamps are shaped, most of the light is delivered to the work space and has a decent spread. If a lamp or bulb is seen from below the ceiling plane, then two things are going on. One - the can light is cheap and not deep enough. Or two (more likely) - someone is using a lamp that is not designed for this fixture. This can be a compact fluorescent "Par" style lamp or a larger wattage R or PAR lamp. Either way, the fixture is not being used as intended.

Most manufacturers of down lights have a wattage label inside the housing, but there should also be a sticker on the trim indicating the correct style of lamps to use. Whether or not someone pays attention to it is another matter.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

FYI - I'm a manufacturer's rep of over 100 different commercial and residential lighting lines. All I do every day is sell light fixtures and look at different lamps.

I'm intrigued by the comment about can lights being more inefficient from the heat/cool standpoint to the house, as all three bedrooms I'll be putting new lighting in are on the top floor.

Any comments on that? I'd like to keep my house fairly energy efficient and would rather not lose a lot of heat out the top.

A rather large source of heat gain and loss in an average house is air infiltration. A typical vented attic is basically open to the outside as far as temperature except in the summer when it is actually hotter than outside air. Any penetration in the ceiling is basically a penetration to the outside. A can light is a larger hole and harder to seal than a surface mount and they are often multiple. So 4 cans vs 1 surface mount probably represents 10 times the infiltration. Any energy rater will tell you that can lights into unconditioned space always light up on their infrared heat loss instruments.

The other issue is that you are not insulating the space that they take up in the attic. While that isn't a huge issue, it is like having an extra small window to allow heat to escape.

You are not allowed to foam a can either so if you are doing foam, you have to leave room for the can to breathe.

All of this can be dealt with with boxes to seal the can that are then foamed but this isn't conventional construction. It is also not an issue with a attic that is foamed at the rafters. Much easier to avoid cans in the second floor.

I am not against cans everywhere but I think bedrooms are a bad place for them. Sleep hygiene states that sleep and sex is all you should really do in a bed. I just throw that out there because someone was happy that their child was reading in bed but that isn't really something we should strive for. Also, looking up and seeing a bright can is telling your body that it is daylight and can be another sleep issue.

This thread has been interesting, I am surprised by how many people want a bright bedroom. I am also surprised by the desire for so much overhead light. There is another school of thought that hates overhead light at all in a bedroom and cans are even more overhead. It is generally not soothing to walk into a room lit with cans compared to a room lit with lamps. Of course layered light is the best but this is a bedroom, not a kitchen.

Now shower cans are fairly useful....

Thanks David. (There are several rooms in my house where it would be good for my body to know it was day time. Yesterday at 3pm, it felt like 7pm because it was so dark (even outside--drizzly day)). Good info to file away.

"A can light is a larger hole and harder to seal..."

Sealed can lights are available.

But they are still one of the worst ways to provide area lighting around.

Even ICAT lights leak air. Even ones with a gasket leak air.

We prefer to have some type of overhead light in every room. Although I like lamps, I don't like them as the only source of light. I do wish we had done fewer cans and more fixtures. In our master, we did wall mounted reading lamps above the night stands and 4 cans. The ceiling fan has a light but it's totally useless. I do love chandeliers in the master is you are willing to forgo the ceiling fan.

The other thing to consider is that adding 4 cans per bedroom will probably add around 300 dollars. I generally don't like overhead light, but turn it on in the boys bedrooms to clean and they turn it on to play. We have a chandlelier in ours and I turn it on on a dimmer occasionally, but usually we just use lamps. . .

If cost is a concern, it is something I would eliminate. 2 60 watt bulbs is ample light for a medium size bedroom (assuming you have a lamp by your bed to read), so if you get a fan which allows this you should be fine.

The thing which has made the MOST difference in our newly finished construction, has been wall-switching HALF of SOME of the Electrical Outlets. At least the two beside the bed.

For example, if you allocate the top half of your electrical plug-in receptacle to be wired to the wall-switch. This will allow you to enter the doorway, flip a wall-switch, and have the two (or whatever) lamps on either side of your bed come on. This was engineer-hubby's idea, and a good one. But we did not do EVERY outlet, I don't think. Also, if you will run security lighting timers there, take care to pay attention which "upper or lower" you plug into, if they are wall switched. Else you'll leave home and your timer will not run without the wall switch on.

We found the most important thing about lighting is to examine the way you behave in that area. If you vacuum at night a lot, you might want overhead light. If you are like me and loathe working in my own shadow, some other sort of lighting will probably be better for you.

Cans: We have task-oriented cans in the kitchen that I could not live without. A room is over the kitchen, so vast quantities of heated air being sucked out through these leaks (seriously??) is not an issue, and visually they are aligned / centered in the window space (yes, we had to beat the electrician, but got them re-done before drywall).
I let DH have his way in the laundry room, and now I wish I'd fought to have one overhead, and one task-can over the laundry sink. I find myself only going into that room to work when it is daylight, when I can use the window light. (DH is an engineer, whereas I am school in theatrical lighting & still photography - you can see the native dichotomy here? are you laughing? LOL)

But you are PLANNING. That alone made ALL the difference in the world for us. Good luck!

v/r - Les.