jockewing,

I use BM products almost everyday and I am behind a paint counter many times over also. To my knowledge their colorants are not listed in this manner at all. I have used Wythe Blue before and that was definitely not the formula for that color. Not in the Regal line, nor the Aura colorants. A gallon formula you would just 5x's it Their formulas are not listed that way.

Unless the color was a BM color and different brands were used for the mix and products like their Ben, Nurtura and Aura uses the special gennex tints and they are not listed the way you found them neither.

Another thing , just thinking these could be just plain standard universal tints and are not any way Ben Moores 12 glycol based or their waterborne gennex acrylic pigments. Could be UTC's which are closer to artist pigments.

The numbers/letters you have listed above is not the typical way BM formula's are dispensed. They are fractions of fluid ounces, referred as shots 32shots = 1 oz. or such as 0x .14033 with oy, bk, tg, or aura tints r- 1,2,3; y- 1, etc. and the oz. given.

I just don't recall anything ever being on their labels as what is listed above. Wish I could help you more, but that is what I know about their pigments and measurements.

just checking back to see if you might have found something else out with those letters/numbers?

No, all I know is these came from a web site called Master Wall Inc. I have no idea how they came up with these formulas.

One thing I like about Sherwin Williams is that when you buy paint from them, the sticker they affix to the can includes the formula and the pigments used, so you can get an idea of what tints make things look a certain way. For instance, I was surprised to see BM Stratton Blue mixed by SW includes magenta. Unfortunately, BM does not do this with their paints.

Also, I understand there are 12 (or 16?) universal tints that just about all paint manufacturers use. Can anyone tell me what the names of all those tints are? I know SW has ones including deep gold, blue, new green, magenta, black, and raw umber.

I am interested in purchasing a set of these tints (in a small size, of course) and trying my hand at mixing my own colors for fun.

jockewing,

every paint can I have mixed has a label and the formula is on the can and especially Benjamin Moore. If you are getting paint from a store that does not do this, JMHO I would put a stop to this right now. Those labels are there are reasons and the end user definitely needs the printout for obvious reasons. I also get an extra print out for my customer files. Keeps me sane and I stay a happy camper when I need to refer back to something.

QUOTE::::: Can anyone tell me what the names of all those tints are?

Well, it's like this . All paint companies will have their own unique set of machine tints to go with their own unique set of tint bases. Its like trying to transfer the machine tints , UTC's, and artists acrylics to give you the same equivalency. One of the main differences in the above is a variation in the pigment names. Machine tints are typically made up of red, yellow, blue, gold, umber, oy, ro brown (basic color names ) whereas artist colors/UTC's are more associated with burnt umbers, raw umber, phthalo greens, quinacridones, cobalts, etc. etc. and knowing how to cipher between them and your utc's/machine tints can render the same color. For instance using ultramarine blue and quinacridone crimson works great with Ben Moores blue and magenta. Artist acrylics will have more binder in them verses the machine/UTC which do not and need the help of the tint base. They just can't be used on their own. Dries up to a powder. Just like if you get UTC's, make sure the lids are tight, they don't clog up and they have a tendency to settle if not used often, can get a little crusty. Lot of this is determined also on which supplier the company chooses to use , the cost of the pigments, the strength, lightfastness and opacity ratings. Ben Moore is going to be a little more unique in their playground because they make their own and not even the elves in the forest are going to know the secrets. I have gotten machine tints from other stores before and I can definitely tell a big difference in their store tints compared to the BM I get. I've always gotten my tints from BM store (long time family friend store-yeah it does make a difference). I can tell you this though, some of the organic pigments I have had to pay some for. The prices of some lab pigments are out the wazoooo, Just like BM Aura colorants, you will find them listed entirely different also, like different labels of reds, red 1, 2, etc going from red tones, brights to oxides , same with yellows and the other colorants. Theirs is based on 32 shots , while some others are 48=1oz or fractions thereof. ; or if the amount is just a hanging chad, it won't even dispense it to break it down.

You could purchase say an artist grade set to start out with, this way you won't have to give up an arm and a leg. Some of the better universals are quite expensive if you really aren't going to use them regularly or are just trying to learn. JMHO, I wouldn't start out with an expensive set, until you can master some of the basic color mixing and what reds, blues, yellows, etc. strength qualities, color fastness warm or cool colorants will render an effect you might be looking for. Measure each increment and write it down. Do you mixing on a white stock paper. Set your palette up with the basic colors to get a feel for mixing your complementaries, etc. and it is ok to mix mud, (that happens to all of us). I still get a little carried away sometimes and just a reminder, blue and yellow don't always make green. I like to use a dropper also. Of course these aren't going to have the same strength qualities and are not going to be as concentrated or saturated as your UTC's or machine tints but they will give you some ideas if you are that interested. Once you have worked with your less expensive grades , then you can graduate to say more exclusive tints such as Mixol, or cal-tints or aquacolors. Mixing your own housepaints or color palette for art work is a wonderful thing. It just takes a lot of dedication, trial and error and constant working. Hope some of this helped.

Wow decorativewalls, thanks for all the info. There was so much there, I had to read through it a couple of times. Just a couple of questions:

-Can you recommend a basic kit I could start out with to play with colors? I have been an artist since I was a little kid, and went to art classes in my early teens and did watercolors, oil, acrylics, pastels, etc. Unfortunately, I got out of it and I am now interested in getting back into it in my early 30's. It really is a shame that I am not using a gift God gave to me. And I want nice art for my house, and those paintings in the shops are too darn expensive!

I am also a paint color nut. I carry my paint chips around with me everywhere in a little satchel and sometimes I just look at all the chips and try to imagine what all the colors would look like on the wall. I would love to be able to attempt to mix my own colors.

What are UTC's?

I can give you some suggestions and jockewing you can decide if the prices are a little steep or not. You can use artist grade liquid acylics say dick blick brand, or better starter kits such as liquitex, winsor newton, royal langnickel, or utrecht. You can also ask your paint store dealer if they can order you a small size basic starter kit of cal-tints or tint-alls, proline, or mixol. They may (don't know for sure) be willing to sell you some of their machine tints (just know those organic colorants come at a hefty price). If not you can order them off the www. Prices are going to go up with UTC's. They aren't cheap at all. I would think you would need your reds, blues, yellows, greens, siennas , ochres, umbers, white and black if you use it. Warm and cool tints of each.
Now, if you just want to play around a little without spending a lot of money right now, you can get those little 2oz. bottles or artist pigments from folk-art. They have some really nice concentrated liquid pigments. Of course these are not going to be store quality strength but at least you can get an idea of say a red + green = a possible brown, depending how it was mixed and the amounts used. That is going to be the most important key part- knowing the exact amounts so you don't get mud or neutralize the colors. Then again, that is all part of color theory.

Since you have studied art and already have some knowledge, this should start filtering back to you.

UTC's are glycol based pigments that can be used in either oil or acrylics. so good luck

UTC's...

"Universal Tinting Colorants".

Glycol-based because they can mix into Latex AND Alkyd paints, as D-walls mentioned too.
Only FPE uses separate colorants for Latex & Oil lines.

Jockewing...I did list some colorant names in my post. Abbreviations are different for every company.

Faron

hi all - thanks for the info about deciphering paint formulas. Apparently I'm not supposed to unravel the mystery, because this website is the only resource.

For starters,
what is the "D" color?

My local hardware store stocks ValSpar paints and uses a software program which converts other manufacturer's formulas, or a customer sample, to a ValSpar formula.

Recently I purchased two one-gallon cans of a custom paint color, one week apart. I used the same paint sample both times, which was "read" by the same spectrometer, fed into the same computer program. Even the same salesman.

The two cans' formulas are not the same, but I didn't realize this until I got home. I'd like to know how to read the recipes and how they could be so different. Although I I can see only a very slight difference on my wall, how do I know which of the two cans is the right match to my sample?

My question is about how to read the formulas, but more to the point, what is the effective difference between these two colors?

(1) B [no oz] 12 shots
C 11
D 6 1 half shot

(2) B 19 1
C 14
D 12

paca,
each paint colorant is going to being different and labeled differently from the next one. When I looked at the letters you had listed below they do remind me of letters that Valspar uses with the paint tints. In order to know if the "C" stands for yellow, yellow oxide or whatever their code colorants are- you would need to ask your paint dealer "what are the colorants used in this paint". I am more familiar with BM than any others.

Really it is not so much at how to read the formulas as what was actually scanned and given to you as a match to your first gallon. That's where I would be really concerned. I know it is very possible to hand a paint chip to a person and even though they have the chip, name, number, etc. in hand , if they are not really careful with what pulls up in the computer, "it could very well be the same color in a different brand", or the same color even within the brand you are buying." That is something the handler needs to be aware of.

Honestly if it were me, I would be taking both of those gallon cans right back in the store with your sample chip and find out what happened. Both cans should spell out the very exact same thing. Hope you find out what happened in the mix-up.

In ACE, RL, & Behr...
(C2 is different, as I stated above)

B = Black
C = Yellow-Oxide
D = Green

If I'm understanding your color-matching issue/steps correctly, you had the sample scanned twice?! Ideally, you would've brought the lid in, so the staff could replicate your original custom color.
If we're not too rushed, we try to save the color/sheen/size/brand/Int. or Ext. use/tint-base, customer name, etc., and make a custom label.
This way, it's always in the computer.

I could write 3 pages on why scanning a sample twice will ALWAYS lead to slightly different scans....so bringing your label is always best.

Faron

PLEASE HELP! I am trying to understand this Ace Royal Exterior paint formula (originally gallon size can) so we can match it best we can at Miller Paint, but they don't understand it :(

y 1/48 1/96

B 2 1 0
C 1 9 1
E 0 25 0

Please help asap, my painters are coming soon, and I want this color so bad :( the above table reads over and down, but its getting smooshed together when i post it. i hope you can understand it. also the only other info I have on it is the label said deeptone 330. thats all the info that was put on the original can :(

I always thought the C was Chrome Yellow... No? Maybe that's just one retailer's name for it? They don't make this easy!

"C" is Yellow-Oxide.

You'll HAVE to have a dried sample, or color-chip.
NO other way around this for a custom-color!

Every companies colorants are different.

Last fall, I could've made that color for you in a heartbeat in ACE-Royal Ext.
* BUT....last Oct., ACE entirely changed their colorant/formula-database to 0-VOC Acrylic-based colorants. It was in the works for a while...
* Smaller ACE's will lose their old colorants sometime this year, as the conversion rolls out.
* So....even if you went back to an ACE store, chances are they'd have to re-scan/match it anyway!
* Also....that ACE Deeptone-base was dropped ~ 2yrs. ago!
* Further...Valspar bought the ACE Paint-Division last year, so you'll be seeing Valspar/ACE stores soon!

Sorry!
The paints they-are-a-changin'!

Faron

Because of exactly what Faron describes, I sought out a technology solution. Hand-held devices for scanning color have been around for a long time but they've always been super pricey and often limited in brand. i.e. Pantone has a Capsure but it's only 'loaded' with Pantone colors - doesn't help me.

What I found is a device (a colorimeter) under $200 called NODE+Chroma and I use an app with it called PaintPro (from iTunes)

Many brands are experiencing the same thing as ACE. There are colors that can no longer be found/made/matched.

Scanning with a colorimeter is the best solution I've come up with so far. There are other paint contractors, consultants and designers doing the same thing for all the reasons outlined above.

It is a time of major flux and change in paint and color. Full disclosure I am an affiliate for Variable but this is NOT my link or anything. It goes directly to Variable completely circumvents all things funcolors.

Here is a link that might be useful: NODE+Chroma Colorimeter

Y means 'ounces' the the other numbers represent drops.

Don't know how current this is. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.penofin.com/pdf/color-formula/PenofinRenewAllColorFormulaGuideBenjaminMooreGennexWaterborneColorant_32_64.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwjipcW1u47VAhUCl1QKHQnEBa0QFgg4MAE&usg=AFQjCNFhkkxXDNkGASLWkGEef7NR3N6mBw

Faron79.... thanx, that helps a lot... any help on I??? Capital letter and AXXN, I understand the AXX (described above as organic yellow) any idea what color the addition of N is?? ACE is what I've got...

I owned an acs and cant say that ive ever heard of N. unless theyre referring to a neutral base but thats not teferenced correctly. the Y after the number refers to an ounce, however the calculations of fhe numbers and the y are calculated in 1:48ths. so i cams up with converting them to teaspoons. i dont have it in front of me but i think it takes 8 to make a teaspoon so 1y would be 6 teaspoons. im saying this by memory but i think thats close. hope it helps. and yes yiuvare correct, the letters are universal color codes for the timt

Anybody have any idea what H would be in the Canadian manufactured Beauti-Tone line?