Victorian House Side Return Extention

4 years ago

Hi all,
I'm going around and around in circles trying to figure this one out... See attached floor plan. Looking for a cost effective way to create a kitchen with living room space suitable for children but struggling with how best to do it.
Any thoughts would be much appreciated or examples of people who have done similar. The things I'm keen to achieve, get light into the back of the house via bi folds/crittal or similar, family space so all can be together and to keep costs as effective as possible. Drains currently in side return but could be boxed.
Thank you for your time.

Comments (16)

ianthy
4 years ago
last modified: 4 years ago
I have just completed a similar side return on our period home. Looking at your plans you already have a good sized kitchen. If it were my home, I would close off the sitting room at the front and then give the 2nd part of the room to the new open plan space. Create a utility room and loo in this space - you already have the plumbing near. Then the remaining part of the dining room would become part of the new open plan space with side return. Likely you will need to move the drains - usually they are located in the side return area - this is not a big job for a competent builder. You will also need a roof light or maybe 2 to let in as much light as possible via the side return roof. We opted for 2 x 1m roof light because we also have a skylight looking into the kitchen.

Due to the layout of your house e.g. the 1st floor sits full length on the ground floor - you may need a supporting column at the end of your kitchen. We got round this with 3m bi-fold doors and then a 1.4m single pane of glass the other side of the column. Think about how you want to use the new space - we preferred to have the kitchen at the back of the room with the dining and sofa space next to the doors and looking over the garden. Also consider how you will heat the area - we installed water Underfloor Heating, it was costly but we will see a reduction in the cost of running the rest of the house, because in the winter we will spend most of the time in this area. I think it will be a great project but you are right to put in as much planning as possible before applying for planning permission etc., Once you kick off you don't want to keep changing your mind on the bigger items.
Victoria Needs
Original Author
4 years ago
I'd love to see photos and/or drawings! Is that possible?
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really difficult to design the right solution, without knowing house value, budgets etc etc. some of the proposed ideas will be in the tens of thousands not including kitchen, finishes etc. maybe talk to a builder/structural engineer to at least get an idea of what's practical. it's all doable - at a cost! then get an appropriate designer to consider the 'overall' brief
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Ellie, Jonathan – thank you both for your replies. Apologies in advance for long post! Ellie: Regarding hallway /entrance it feels very narrow with view directly onto stairs rather than any sightline through to rear of house moving the wall is partly aesthetic & partly practicality of dragging bulky items through narrow entrance (appreciate point that things will change as kids grow) perhaps opening up the entrance to front reception room will create more light and feeling of space without moving the wall + redecorating hallway to create lighter / updated space will improve the aesthetic Downstairs WC thanks & what I have been thinking too (wife disagrees & thinks 1st floor loo is sufficient) Alternative is trip upstairs each time (toilet in cellar will be removed entirely as we find it’s not really usable (down steep stairs, at back of utility which is invariably cluttered & pokey space (c. 175cm ceiling height). Would prefer to reclaim the space and create a bike rack on that back wall instead Kids / Parent Bedrooms all on same floor Perhaps we are too relaxed as parents but this doesn’t feel so important to us (at least right now). Use video monitors so hear every squeak and have stair gates fitted Jonathan: Where to start – you have definitely given lot of food for thought & thank you for the drawings! General point about use of rooms changing over time is well taken. Lower level: Like your idea re curving stairs to hall. Only issue I see with that is how to navigate a large bike through 90deg angle – that would put me off Will remove the loo as it’s not usable in our view, recycling the space for bike storage (wall racked) Revised utility position – that space is all currently occupied with boiler / water tanks etc so not practical to move In general looking to spend minimal amount on this space – decorated to OK standard. What is missing is smart storage & better insulation as some damp penetrating from the portion of basement which has not been dug out Ground Floor: Generally like your suggestions and hadn’t thought about putting kids in front room rather than middle room Flexi doors rather than completely blocking front and middle reception rooms could work well while keeps light flowing through / preserves front to back view Flex room concept is interesting but I don’t think it solves long term problem of boot / coat storage & something I am struggling with Another potential solution for boots / coats etc. may be to steal space from kitchen (say 1.5m) and create a storage room on left hand side, while also extending hallway and cellar stair entrance to keep symmetry (which can deliver further shelving / pantry storage in that additional space on right hand side) By doing that we could keep our existing front reception room as is (add flex doors) & use that for tv / quiet time, have kids playroom in middle reception close to kitchen & get long term fix for boots / jackets 1st floor guest bedroom - Point well-made re. stairs for grandparents Master bedroom vs. Formal Reception Depends on what plan we go with downstairs obviously Neighbours have formal reception in this space with small office to rear (where our existing en-suite sits). Certainly worth considering & offers better view than downstairs reception 2nd floor If moving master bedroom would basically look to replicate the existing master on 1st floor but shift it one floor up (L-shaped with walk-in wardrobe space & en-suite beyond) Could turn existing office space into the exercise area (if shifting office a floor down to rear of new formal reception) but eats into master bedroom space or have it in Loft Loft If we want to keep large master (while moving formal reception room) then we will struggle to use this for anything other than bedroom (likely with en-suite) and possibly small exercise area as that would give us 4 beds overall To me, the biggest change from your suggestions would be in moving the master bedroom as has a large knock-on effect. It does offer chance to return that flex room (at some stage) to a formal dining room, keeping reception room on 1st floor and having a separate tv room. Would welcome any view also on the boot room / coat storage /downstairs WC dilemma! Finally a concept planner is next stop once we have had chance to get clearer idea of what we need vs want. Many thanks
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Hi Sarah, You can modify an existing extension, but in your case, as you said, you might need to replace the spanning beam - unless the structural engineer finds a way to extend this, but you will have a column inside the space, which might not be preferable. Full length bifolds, again depends on the structural design. You could probably have them, but not necessarily. There's plenty of design tricks with glazing to ensure it looks great and brings the right purpose. I wouldnt necessarily block the second entrance if I could. Relocating the toilet will be a game changer in my opinion, as it will open up the space even more and allow you to have a living area with dining as well. Also if you are hiring an architect, check with them the option to not extend the current side return, and modify the glazing & layout only, i think there's some potential there too. You can do plenty of awesome things with your space, the key is to have the right people on board. Hope this helps. Cristina.
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Great ideas - all will work but I agree with Jon R - you need to live in it to get a feel for it. I did start to sketch out what you could do - but marina has done a great job of that already 😍. Have you seen the programme ’My House Made Perfect ‘ (I think that’s what it is called) some eye opening and practical designs on there. Simple solution is to move the kitchen into an L shape backing onto the front bedroom wall and creating a good space for dining or lounging area in front of the patio doors. As per my quick edit of your plan - (blue : kitchen , yellow : walls , red : storage units housing TV) Note in this if possible I would move the wall back on the bedroom just a couple feet, which would make the world of difference , lining up the storage cupboard under the stairs. You have high ceilings this gives you a sense of space - make the most of this but putting in floor to ceiling window/ patio - something like the crittal range look amazing. Your investment money is a lot but with real feature items won’t go far. But those items could be the difference between WOW and practical, it’s already practical and my gut is to spend more on the WOW 😍.
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Jonathan
4 years ago
What sort of budget is available?
Victoria Needs
Original Author
4 years ago
a small one... trying to figure out what sort of numbers are viable. Is it possible to achieve something like this for around 25K or we looking at 75K?
PRO
Kitchenpod - Temporary Kitchen Hire (Home use)
4 years ago
It is possible to reconfigure your room to have a new kitchen and double doors onto the garden with circa £25k but a full side return extension + new kitchen is more £50k+. For inspiration type 'side return extension' into houzz and there will be loads of images to inspire. Your budget will be key to the extent that you can do. A side return extension will pay for itself in terms of value added to the house. Good luck Ed
Victoria Needs
Original Author
4 years ago
thank you
PRO
Abdul
4 years ago
i can draw 3D if you need.
Victoria Needs
Original Author
4 years ago
you can draw a suggested new layout?
PRO
Richard Ruddick Architecture
4 years ago
last modified: 4 years ago
The configuration of the rear of your house provides an
opportunity to create a contemporary, open plan space. I would open up the side
of the house where the hob is shown and infill the outdoor space with a glazed
roof to create a large kitchen-dining area filled with light. A flat roof with skylights could be another option.

Budget permitting
you could open up the wall where the French doors are shown, or just remove
them and create a lounge/play space.
Victoria Needs
Original Author
4 years ago
What would you say the cost difference between the two options would be?
PRO
Abdul
4 years ago
yes i can.
Jonathan
4 years ago
If you build a side extension you will likely spend £20,000 - £25000 on the building.
You may find that to build all the way to the dining room window may not be economically possible as the underground drains may be in the way.
New garden doors will likely cost £5000.
A new flooring for the room will likely be £1500.
A new kitchen will likely be £25,000 plus.
campo73
4 years ago
We have previously done an extension to a Victorian house with the same original layout albeit didn't have the corridor extending down the side of the stairs. You can view the plans and the house here
https://www.propertypal.com/57-south-parade-ravenhill-road-belfast/366410. In order to get light at the back of the house the architect created a 'box' in the middle of the house.
campo73
4 years ago
Just to add the total build cost was about £40k (not including flooring and kitchen) but that included renovating some of the rooms on the upper floors and also the whole of the ground floor was renovated including the front room. Also the work was carried out a few years ago and is in Belfast so probably cheaper than England.
Victoria Needs
Original Author
4 years ago
That is super helpful thanks
Luciana
4 years ago
Hi Victoria,

I don't have any plans to show you, but some construction photos of our side extension - I think we have the same layout as you, but in the mirror :)).

We extended our kitchen 4 years ago, unfortunately I'm not able to tell you how much it cost as we'd had a complete house renovation and paid it all as a pack. However, the structural beams and glazing in the kitchen were billed separately; main beam was about £3000, the glass (including folding doors) was £15000. I remember we also asked for a quote for a roof with 3 or 4 skylights, builder said he'd do it for £9000 at the time (we live in Cardiff).

We had the same problem, wanting to maximize the use of space and get as much natural light as possible. We decided NOT to have two access points to the kitchen, but close off the middle room double door and have an internal window instead. Our thinking was that, if we keep a door there, the space is lost, as it needs to be 'free of stuff' for access :)) especially because, as with your house, we have a loo in between and the back length of that loo can't be anything but a corridor (aka dead space). By closing it, we gained a fully usable middle room and a somewhat closed corner in the kitchen, ideal for bins, feeding the cats, dumping hoover/ bikes out the way, etc. I hope I make sense (I'm a bit tired and my English seams to fail me at such times... :)) You can even have it as a play corner...

view from kitchen 2014 · More Info

There are lots of examples on Houzz for side extensions, just search http://www.houzz.co.uk/ideabooks/query/side-extension and browse the results.

I'd be happy to share my experience if you need more details, just let me know. Good luck!

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Victorian House Side Return Extention

Comments (16)

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