Fire Regs

9 years ago

I have plan drawn up sent in and works already commenced.However it doesnt meet fire regs and i found my small dream house having to be redesigned,totally changing layout and look that I dont want just to pass regs. Because I now have open plan kitchen diner and stairs come off dining room, (going from 1 bed terraced -being converted to 3 bed,by double extension above kitchen to get 2nd bedroom and 3rd bedroom from loft conversion ) am told by building regs only way to pass it is sprinkler stystem likely cost at least 3k ,which I havent got or moving stairs into lounge at front of house but they have to be protected as in enclised with a wall as well as fire door into lounge and upstairs in all 3 bedrooms. I can live with moving stairs into from room (just about as will lose floor room in my bedroom now , just about ) but having to have them boxed in which will look ugly and really enclosed ,seems what I gained opening up the kitchen/dining room is at expence of small living room now and horrible dark enclosed hallway leading straight off my front door.Do you have any solutions or contacts for sprinkler or mist sytems. It just seems so over the top when i no there must be millions of houses like this.

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PRO

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9 years ago

Hi Melanie,

There issue you will have with the building reg inspectors is that they are normally treated quite badly, people tend to see them like parking wardens so they tend to be defensive and uncooperative due to the hostility they receive daily.

I must confess I dislike them as well but they are a necessary evil I'm afraid.

My suggestion is to sit down with your architect and come up with a two or three solutions (flat roof / fire glass etc etc.)

Then arrange to go and see the building regs in his offices.

Take your proposals, take a large cake from Greggs !!!

Remember, he / she is a jobsworth but at the end of the day they are human and if you treat them with the respect you would expect yourself and offer them constructive solutions they are normally much more accommodating.

Remember it's not their job to offer you solutions, it's up to you to put the solutions on the table and negotiate with them.

Martin

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Comments (14)

GardenFairyGodmother GFG
9 years ago
How about fire doors at the bottom and top of existing stairs? As well as a wired in smoke detector on each floor? It does mean the door downstairs will open out into room and the stairs will be dark though. But it means you can keep the original layout that you wanted. I once rented a two up and two down, and the stairs were at the back of the house going up from the kitchen.
Melanie Norton
Original Author
9 years ago
thanks but i dont think that would suffice as there has to be protected means of escape,so once you open fire door at bottom stairs you'd still open it ontobthe open plan kitchen where fire most likely to be .
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PRO
User
9 years ago
Hi Melanie,

Firstly, why didn't your architect advise on this whilst the plans were being drawn up. It's his / her responsibility to advise on this as part of the building regulation application.

With regards to your current situation it's difficult to advise without seeing a plan. It is however very unusual to have a sprinkler system in a domestic property.

Fire regulations usually relate to a safe means of exiting the building.

On this basis I have a few suggestions:

1

Is there any other way of adding another exit allowing a safe exit of the building ?

2

If you need to contain the staircase this could be done with clear fire glass.

Fire glass is expensive but it means you can screen the stairs off and still have an open plan look. (also looks very modern if designed correctly)

3

Can you negotiate with the council by adding fire doors to all rooms with self closers ?

4

Is there any way of giving an exit from the the bedrooms ?

i.e.. a fire escape.

Looking at your extension could this be done with a flat roof then alter the bedroom window to patio doors. This gives a means of escape to the room and you could add a simple stair from the roof to the garden.

Not sure if any of this will help but it's all I can think of.

Whilst I understand the regulations are a pain to an extent the authorities are considering your safety.

Make sure you get written agreement from the authorities on which ever solution you agree with them.

Regards,

Martin
GardenFairyGodmother GFG
9 years ago
In some B &Bs I've visited, they have an outside metal staircase at the back of the building. You can have French doors instead of windows at the back. Not a visually appealing fire escape though.
Melanie Norton
Original Author
9 years ago
Thanks Martin,thats really helpful.Didnt no about fireglass. All the other points have definately crossed our thoughts . Yes my architect was correct in that a)he did say raise the concerns so was my decision to try plan see if would get passed we have thought about fire escape from back bedroom with back exit from.bedroom coming down fire escape into garden,we havent asked if we could keep flat roof for fire escape roof as architect said likely to refuse as not in.keeping with neighbouring properties but actually i have nothing to lose by asking as also save me money having flat roof as opposed to sloping tiled.I had hoped to pick building regs inspectors brains yesterday on site visit my builder requested solely for this problem. Unfortunately only my builder had chance see him ,he said he really wasnt very helpful he had to put ideas to regs man he wasnt forthcoming in solutions back.I will try contact them again. I dont have huge amount space to play with so not losing inside is paramount.
Resh
9 years ago
Great posts from Martin. We had similar issues (but luckily earlier than you). Getting on side with inspector, rather than bullying, worked well. We just needed some fire doors and FD30 internal fire glass (pricey, sadly and MUST be installed correctly with the correct materials by someone who knows what they are doing to comply)
Kerry Donnelly
9 years ago
If the stairs get moved to the living room, you can put a wired smoke alarm in each bedroom with self closing doors, it won't need to be inclosed as long as there is a door closing off the kitchen.

But moving the stairs, fire alarms, changing the plans is going to cost X, keeping things as they are but adding the sprinklers will cost X, so weigh it up and may cost less to do the sprinklers.

I agree with getting the inspector on board, their input can be invaluable.
Melanie Norton
Original Author
9 years ago
Ok so right now I am.leaning more towards sprinklers /misting system option (if I can get a costing and if its not tudiculous money then somehow finding extra funds )as at least I will end of keeping my original plan,thats assuming building regs will pass that option,which they havent actually said,so I need more contact with building regs inspector and to find some sprinkler quotes but I guess I need building regs to also tell me what rooms they need to be in before I can begin to get a cost (unless its every every room ? gosh I hope not).
Does anybody no ?
Perhaps I be best putting this on as seperate query for some ideas as wont be able speak building regs till Monday earliest.
Kerry Donnelly
9 years ago
Where do you live?
Melanie Norton
Original Author
9 years ago
I live in Bristol
Kerry Donnelly
9 years ago
I have knowledge of Scottish building regs but not English, I'm not sure of how different the fire regs will be from ours or I would have helped you out.

I'd go back to the architect and tell him your plans, also contact the building control officer directly and bounce it off him. Get a fire engineer out and ask them for a quote and what's needed to comply with the regulations. You will also have to make sure that you have enough water pressure to feed the sprinklers or you may need an additional pump/tank that will determine the cost implications.

But I think it's going to be easier than moving the stairs. Also, building regs in wales now state that new builds need a sprinkler system, Scotland and England are set to follow this guideline so your just a wee bit ahead of the times.
Kerry Donnelly
9 years ago
You should get away with the sprinklers only being in the kitchen if you then hard wire in a smoke alarm in each room and if your windows are escape windows,( less than 1100mm to the opening part).
Melanie Norton
Original Author
9 years ago
Thank you Kerry thats all really helpful.

Fire Regs

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