Yours is an expensive extension to build. Is this place the best place to extend. What is the room on the plan? Can you extend behind the utility instead? Could you please show the whole plan. Is suspect keeping the kitchen in the same room is going to be more expensive than moving it.

Any change you could do this? You then get a great sized Utility accessed from the kitchen, albeit possibly with a step up. The study is better, the lounge accessed from the Hallway and the new kitchen diner. The kitchen / diner light and airy as it has light front and back.

would be interested to see the re-arrangement.

Thanks for your replies!
@Jonathan - I am afraid we don’t have enough space to extend on the study side - the study, utility, loo and hall is actually a 1990s extension on a 1924 house and they went out as far as possible then. It’s a shame as the principal house has lovely tall ceilings and the extension, well, doesn’t.
@MATH - yes - I see your thinking - changing the utility still gives access to garden. One of our previous iterations put the loo and the utility in the dining for that reason.
But - what is not apparent from the drawings is that the way the 1990s extension was bolted on meant the only access to it was underneath the mini landing of the stairs. Which means my 6ft6 other half has to duck whenever he moves around the house. So we have been trying to fix that issue too. I will post my work-up later this morning. It’s a big (and likely hideously expensive) project. Maybe my husband will have to continue stooping ......

To be clear..... you said you can’t extend to the side- can you extend behind the utility instead?

I agree, on a lot of levels, it would make sense to extend out the back of the utility. But (there is always a but) as you will see from the photos the difference in levels is really challenging and we wouldn't be able to square the extension off and still get access to the back. Also, we were hoping to get another bedroom above the extension as at the moment we only have 1 bathroom, so we were going to convert one of our existing bedrooms to be a family bathroom. But yes, although it looks dreadful now, the verandah would be lovely restored and it is a shame to build over it. We are on such an awkward plot. The original front door between the lounge and the kitchen is at the BACK of the house. The 90's extension did put the porch and front door actually facing the street...

Will post my grand plan in a tic ..

Shows the space where Jonathan put the extension

Shows the back of the utility and loo (excuse the mess - its a project!)

Here's the original 1924 bit of the house showing the patio (and verandah) where we were proposing to build... Again, please excuse the state of the garden. It is all a rather large project.

And finally:

Existing upstairs floorplan

Downstairs plan restating the fireplace in the existing kitchen to be the dining room; making a new entrance and loo where the existing dining room is (bathroom directly above); new stairs to allow squared off entrance to lounge and enough space to walk up! @Jonathan, this is not dissimilar to your idea moving the entrance at the front.

Upstairs plan showing new bathroom in old Bed 3, and new master suite above kitchen with dressing room and ensuite

And finally, a plan like @MATH suggested, which had both the utility and the loo in the existing dining room and keeping the old entrance in the 90's extension. This is in view of sacking the two-storey extension idea, which is why we need to keep the study in the front so we can WFH (will lose space upstairs as need another bathroom).

What do you reckon? Would any of these work or am I making life too difficult and too expensive for myself. And if we did this would the kitchen be better in the new extension at the back or where it is?

Thanks very much!

I think i'd get someone in to look at the stairs as they are spoiling the lay out. Maybe you can make them longer, thus higher and have less of a return, so the return is higher up?

Alternatively, you could cut back the Utility ( dining room ) to make a new wider Hallway.

I like this plan better than the original plan that seemed to require steels to take out the corner of the building which would have added to the cost.
If you are set on this general layout I would do a few tweaks- firstly I prefer the front door where I put it- the aperture (where I put it) appears wider and may well be wide enough for a door so this is less expense, I prefer the door in the middle of the building and I think the front door first impression is better see the bottom of the stairs where there is likely a nice Arts and Crafts newel post, and a glimpsed view through through the main reception to the garden beyond.
You should just check that your plan leaves enough room at the bottom of the stairs to navigate and for the door into the main lounge.
Personally I would sit the utility room back slightly from the main house. If you make it subservient to the main house you are less likely to visually change its proportions and it is easier to tie in the roof.
Personally I don’t like the step down from the dining to kitchen. I am speculating that you think it is cheaper rather than pouring an exceptionally deep concrete base- instead consider a suspended wood floor which you can have at any height and a void underneath (probably the main house has this).

If you needed to build a smaller square footage extension my plan might still work and you could retain the patio and the verandah. I don’t think it matters that you only have access to the back around one side of the house. But you could make that extension just a little smaller if you had to keep a little distance from the boundary.
I offer a 4 and five bedroom layout for the upstairs.

I think i must have posted at the same time that you posted Gclj2.

Can you put up a list of must haves:- Clearly this is larger problem than kitchen / diner extension.

I see that you currently have 5 bedrooms and whilst you may / want 5 ( one for a guest, i don't know ), bed 3 screams bathroom . The ideal scenario would be to have all the family use bathrooms upstairs. So as one of Jonathan's plans shows, 4 beds, 2 baths. This really has it's advantages as it requires no structural work at all and would be as cheap as chips leaving the budget for a ground floor re-config and no two storey extension.

Also, I see that on one of the plans you changed the study to a playroom.

As Jonathan also mentions, the height problem isn't really an issue build wise, i't just either more concrete or a hung floor and cheaper than cutting out the side of a house.

So, again, do you want a guest area with en-suite downstairs? A study, a playroom.........what's needed versus what's wanted?

Regards the Playroom, i didn't put this in, simply because if you were to have one, then I'd recommend that's it's directly off a Main room and so that you have 'visuals' on the kids at all times. Putting it in a corner the furthest away from the kitchen / diner isn't ideal and requires a re-think. Possibly an area at the front of the house on the left beside the Utility and moving the kitchen back. None of the plans have dimensions, thus it's difficult to see what you can fit it.

For me it is better to try to keep the original building intact. The corner door in the living room for instance- just changing that seems like a small job but by the time you have moved it, possibly sourcing a narrower door, repaired cornice, plastered and decorated, bought a new flooring for the lounge you might well have spent £3k for little gain.
I also remain concerned about removing the vestibule at the bottom of the stairs as I worry the space at the bottom of the stairs will be tight without it.

Absolutely agree Jonathan, which is why it's so important to have absolutely every bit of info, most importantly the dimensions of everything. What's load bearing, what isn't, what's needed versus what's liked or just on a wish list.

You can't put up proper suggestions without the basics, dimensions at the very least and position of all main drains.

We ask loads of questions as part of the design process when we design with clients ( we are independent Concept Planners ) - but just be aware /remember that this is a totally public forum - so don’t put anything too personal up on here !

I think considering the size of the project and the importance of getting it right, you would be far better off with someone like Karen @ OnePlan. She has fabulous reviews on here and really knows her stuff. It's so important to look at the whole thing and not bits of it, so i'd highly recommend giving her a go.

Wow everyone. Thank you so much.

I have posted pictures with dimensions. Hope you can read. I will try and put something better up this evening. The drawings should be scale 1:50 but I get that this will be lost when uploaded on here. To give you a starter, the internal dimensions of the lounge are 4.2m across (to in the alcoves) and 4.5m deep (not including bay). @Jonathan - what program do you use to draw your plans? The tracing paper just isn't cutting it ;-)

1. @MATH - by the time we get PP and this is built - playroom rapidly moving towards teenage cave. So no sight lines required and probably not preferred !

2. Cheap as chips? Now you are talking! I had worried that wouldn't be able to do Jonathan's plan building out by existing utility because of the site slope (much more marked on that side than on the verandah side), but maybe it could work after all ....

3. 4 double beds, 2 baths and 1 study minimum. Study can be upstairs or downstairs (we use Bed 3 as a study at the mo - doesn't have to be massive). The beds to be all upstairs. If we can fit in a 3rd guest ensuite, would be fab - but not essential by any means. Bed 3 does scream bathroom - especially as all the plumbing next door already.

4. @Jonathan yes, it would be too tight to get up the stairs without vestibule - unless we moved the stairs. I'd assumed that we would have to. Or, if we extended on the patio and put a kitchen in, would fire regs dictate we needed a door into the kitchen? Otherwise could keep a pillar of the existing walls and keep it open and stairs as it? £3k for moving the door? Ouch!

5. However, really want to sort out the issue of walking under the half landing under the stairs as hubby fed up of banging his head.

6. Drains - man hole cover is circle at corner of existing "study" at front of house (where my arrow now points into). Soil pipe goes down front of the house at the edge of bathroom and bed 3 - I suspect that what is now the dining room was likely the kitchen when built in 1924.

HTH - and thanks again.

I have just checked the sizes of what I have drawn and I have gone a little small- this is good news- since your house is bigger we know everything I suggested will fit.
I use an app on my phone called HouseDesign for drawing plans

I pondered this one long and hard. I think you can keep the whole of upstairs the same as it is but change the bedroom to a bathroom. That's really easy and cost effective.

Downstairs, given that the new extension has a good drop to the ground level outside, I see no point in opening up that side and think you can house the teenagers in the study area, leave the downstairs toilet where it is and have a great boot room.

I'd move the dining room wall back and create a Hallway that your poor hubby can walk down.

Re- the kitchen / diner.

I personally think it's large enough just extending backwards.

However, if you want a really big kitchen and maybe a lounge / diner, then yes you could go further over if the budget goes that far and it's what you want. You will have saved by not moving the stairs and changing the bedroom to the bathroom and not amending the rooms on the ground floor to the right. So, go for it:-

@MATH and @Jonathan - thanks so much for taking so much time to come up with some great ideas. You have given us a lot of food for thought. I've booked a local architect to come round next week to look at both extending out of the utility or extending on the patio to give me a view on costs, chances of planning etc. I'll let you know how I get on.