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Fig, I really agree with everything you said, soo much knowledge that is EXTREMELY important and priceless could one day be all gone.
And this forum is great but even then how long is this app going to be around?
I hope to collect many many rare things and learn this knowledge because one day it may not be easily found.
-Ian Stewart
@Ian Stewart: Zone 6 Western Kentucky, USA unfortunately, for many varieties, the day they are no longer easily found has come. MANY once easily obtained roses are simply gone. No nursery sources, no garden sources, just gone. Many long-listed gardens on HMF are also gone. I've researched many roses in many gardens. I've researched many of the gardeners listed as I've been able. MANY haven't been on HMF in over a year. MANY have public obituaries connected with their names and locations and when addresses are available, Google Maps images and Zillow listings show no roses at the most local images and Zillow shows property sales within the last time indicated of their HMF participation.
Spreading rarities around has always had its dangers...Japanese Beetles, Brown Apple Moth, RRD, etc. and none of those are gone but now we also have Chilli Thrips and Heaven knows what else.
For anyone wanting the "old knowledge", I would strongly urge you to obtain every edition of the ARS Annuals from the 1920s (they started in 1916, but didn't contain AS much history and discoveries until the twenties) until about 1990. The later ones are "OK", but don't contain NEARLY the history of the earlier ones. And, you can often find them at outrageously inexpensive prices now. Old rose books, not the coffee table picture books, but the meaty ones containing history and discoveries are well worth their prices (also relatively inexpensive these days compared to years ago) and time to read them. Memory, even sharp ones, are fallible. Reading the writings of the ones who experienced, explored, discovered and lived the history then passing them around to the next "generation".
Agreed, @fig_insanity Z7b E TN! To your list, I'd add Roses by Jack Harkness (Dent, 1977); Rose Growing Complete by E.B. LeGrice (the later paper back edition rather than the 1960s hard cover as it contains MUCH more information); The Complete Rosarian by Norman Young; My Life With Roses, Harry Wheatcroft, 1959: Papa Floribunda: the Gene Boerner Story; A Life in Roses by Alain Meilland; Roses From Dreams to Reality, the Herb Swim Story: and many others I have to dig around in the garage to rediscover, but that must wait for health challenges to be dealt with.
I would like to mention the old Vintage Garden catalogue - I consult it regularly, especially for all of the information it contains about the growth habits of various types of roses. For those of us who garden in warm climates, it is so much better at predicting how a rose will actually grow in our climate. Also contains information about old roses that like warm climates. (I once was reading a rose book from the UK, and instead of saying "I cannot recommend that rose for our climate", or "that rose needs to be grown under glass here"as Graham Thomas did, or something like that, it said something like "I tried to grow the old tea roses, but they are hopeless."). Also good for reading if you garden in a warm climate are of course rose books written in Australia, South Africa, the US South, etc. It took me years to realize that the lovely rose books written in the UK and the East Coat US were of almost no use to me, except for the photos.
Jackie
Ian, Sheila mentioned Suzy Verrier. I HIGHLY recommend her books "Rosa Gallica" and "Rosa Rugusa". They're both available on Amazon. The ONLY problem with them is that Suzy was the only commercial source for many of the roses in her books, and she passed away in 2019. I communicated with her regularly for a couple of years, back in the 2010's. She was a fount of knowledge about cold climate old roses. Get the books if (and while) you can.
Gee...thinking about Suzy makes me miss Lynette, too. Olga, as well, come to think of it. Though Olga wasn't "famous", she grew so many gorgeous gallicas...and had some unorthodox methods I still use to this day. You old timers will know what I mean. We've lost so much knowledge.
At Amazon:
@fig_insanity - Thank you for the book links. Glad you could find them.
I really have needed some rose books and these look amazing.
That's really sad that she passed and that the fact you knew her so well.
Off I go to your new threads for further talks
What a wonderful thread. I'm awed by the knowledge on this forum. Always have been.
@jacqueline9CA Jackie, the consensus is that it was definitely "dubious circumstances" around the introduction of CW, lol. We may never know what the true name of the rose is, because it's widely accepted that Wyant, the man who introduced it as Colonial White, had pilfered it from another breeder, or at least re-introduced claiming it was his.
Perhaps the actual breeder did not get a chance to introduce it -?? If that is the case, then it never had a "real name".
Jackie
I have "welcome outliers" on some of my "once bloomers" some years - did not know it was so common. One of the reasons roses are wonderful is that they constantly surprise you!
Jackie