Is reptibark toxic?
I was speaking to Greenscape Gardens on the phone a little while ago and we were chatting about mixes... he uses a top secret proprietary mix and I mentioned a lot of us on here are huge fans of reptibark, since the proper fir fines are usually so hard to find.
He mentioned that reptibark is heavily treated and pretty toxic... which horrified me as I try and avoid using treated materials.
What do we think? I assumed it was just the raw material chipped into proper size. I guess I may have to call the manufacturer to find out, in the meantime I thought we could discuss :).
Comments (68)
PROGreenscape Gardens
6 years agoI will post the results of my side by side grow of eight New Zealand lemonade planted in 4 different mixes at the end of the outdoor season. Two trees each have been planted into the "gritty" mix, the "5-1-1" mix, ProMix and my soil mixture.
I can already see that the trees in my mix and the promix are doing better then the gritty or the 5-1-1. But don't take my word on it, that's why there will be pictures lol.
Vladimir (Zone 5b Massachusetts)
6 years agoGreengardens – your answer to tropic
of cancer (“keep reading”) is a cop out. Having said that cedar in a soil
mix is toxic to plants, it is incumbent upon you to provide evidence, not just “your
experience”. How about some scientific papers published in peer reviewed
journals?Do you have evidence that your soil mix requires less
fertilizer than the 5-1-1 mix?
Laura LaRosa (7b)
6 years agoThe only thing I can note is that I have all of my trees now in 5-1-1 made with reptibark and they are all growing incredibly well and show no signs of deficiencies (except for a few I inherited). I use FP and Oscomote Plus for fertilizer. Now I do know Brian uses promix with great success I've just not been brave enough to try it bc my trees are doing so well already.
- PRO
Greenscape Gardens
6 years agolast modified: 6 years agoVlad - It is common knowledge that beneficial bacteria aid plants in the uptake of nutrients (therefore less nutrients are necessary in bio diverse soil). Simple.
I'm not here to write a doctoral thesis for your amusement, so keep
reading is hardly a "cop out". I recommend you keep reading, but really
you can do whatever you want! - PRO
Greenscape Gardens
6 years agolast modified: 6 years agoHi Laura. I'm very glad to hear your trees are doing well in the 5-1-1 mix, I always like to hear people are having success :) may I ask how long your trees have been in their mix and if applicable, how often you change your soil out for new soil?
Vladimir (Zone 5b Massachusetts)
6 years agoGreenscape - So, you are not willing or unable to back up what you are saying.
hobbyartisan (Saskatoon, SK Canada, 2b)
Original Author6 years agoHi Greenscape, just an fyi, we have some scientists here so they do dig for the "hard evidence" lol. Just wanted to let you know everyone is very nice so no one will be attacking you for having a different opinion.
That's why I brought it up, I am interested in all sides and I knew there would be some differing opinions. Can you tell us more about your winter set up? As far as I can tell having citrus success in summer when they are outside is easy, it's what happens come winter that is my challenge. Particularly for us northern container growers. I actually had more casualties this winter in modified 511 than I did the previous year when they were in boggy bagged mix. But I think I had drain hole and salt build up problems that caused it- easily rectified for this coming year. The root development in the pots seemed good.
- PRO
Greenscape Gardens
6 years agoVlad - I certainly am and if you had just asked for an example I would
have been glad to provide it. But you have not just asked for a link to
an academic paper, you have stated that my claims are without base and
my experience counts for nothing. Would the fact that I have gone to
school for this/do this for a living not have any bearing on the weight
my 'experience' carries? If you want to be condescending perhaps you
should try growing your trees in the same 5-1-1 mix for ten years
without changing it and prove me wrong. Good luck with that. Or as I
said initially you could just do some more research? Since you don't
want to learn from my mistakes that is.... - PRO
Greenscape Gardens
6 years agolast modified: 6 years agohobbyartisan - I would be glad to tell you about my winter preparations in terms of soil treatment. The soil is heavily flushed, then top dressed. As soon as the trees come inside watering is reduced to once every three weeks for the first month and a half with the exception of trees carrying fruit. That's about it. Let the soil dry out and it will not retain as much water as it would during the summer and root rot issues/ winter salt buildup solved. this is what I do for my soil mix and would help for a straight promix planting as well. It might dry out the bark in the 5-1-1 too much and prevent the bark from soaking up enough water, but it depends on the conditions of your house.
tropicofcancer (6b SW-PA)
6 years agoWow Greenscape: No one asked you to write a thesis. A simple direct answer with links to articles would have done it. Why not answer hobby's question about what is in repti-bark that is toxic instead of asking him to call the company.
It is certainly a common knowledge that soil in the ground is bio-diverse and it is beneficial. Can you say the same whether container soil can sustain any reasonable bio-diversity for any reasonable length of time? Any article/research you can find?
You also seem to stuck with 511 needing changing often. A lot of people do not change it completely. Complete change of soil is not for the faint of heart. It is done as a matter of choice to control air/water/nutrient holding capacity. There is absolutely no bio-diversity except some opportunistic fungi and bacteria. Eventually in about 2-3 years the bark would decompose and the plant would chug along fine.
Now coming back to normally scheduled program.
Of all Cedars, only Western Red Cedar is known to have a chemical (thujaplicin) that
can harm plants. It is harmful to soil biota only. The paper by Linda
linked earlier states that. The paper does not say anything about its effect on other beneficial organisms in soil.Anyway,
I am not advocating using cedar as a soil mix. Like any other sap wood
it will deprive the soil of nitrogen. Cedar mulch is all largish chunks
of sapwood and these parts it is all white cedar. I have not seen any
evidence so far that white cedar is harmful as a mulch.hobbyartisan (Saskatoon, SK Canada, 2b)
Original Author6 years agoWhat do you mean by top dressed? And did you say they are in a sunroom in winter? With supplemental light? With supplemental heat? On the floor or off the floor? Thanks!!!
hobbyartisan (Saskatoon, SK Canada, 2b)
Original Author6 years agoTropic, also FYI Greenscape is a nice guy so let's not be harsh, everyone who has received trees from him has been very pleased... we were chatting about mix on the phone and I said the reptibark question would spark huge debate so that's why I wanted to bring it up. Especially with all of our scientists on board. I actually agree with you on a lot of your points too, just wanted to convey that Greenscape is very nice and has excellent experience and info so there are no ill intentions there...
We know we have a lot of people on the forum using wild and crazy mix and still having good success... Steve uses compost and crushed bricks, Brian uses promix... so I'm not sure there is a right or wrong answer.
hobbyartisan (Saskatoon, SK Canada, 2b)
Original Author6 years agoPS Sage Gardens in Winnipeg uses Sea Soil!!! Which is amazing stuff for in ground vegetables but I consider it basically straight compost and was shocked to see his gorgeous trees grown in only that!
Tropic, I also have read that there is no biodiversity in container growing medium as the small container size does not allow for that process, which is why I use non organic ferts on my conatiner plants with no guilt. So it is always interesting to hear of people growing with success with compost mixes and or organic ferts.
cory (Zone 7a, NJ)
6 years agoInteresting discussion. I remember a friend of mine that was a nursery man years ago warning me that toxic resins would build up in my soil as I was using pine needles to add to my sandy yard at my beach home to try to improve the soil. I had never thought about that as I had read of people using pine needles as mulch. Then I thought about how flammable the needles could be because all the resin they contained and decided against continuing to use them although I like to use materials that are readily avaliable to me, especially at no cost. I hadn't thought about repti-bark having toxicity, natural or otherwise since all my plants growing in it so far have been doing well and it is light weight, airy, and drains well. And I was thinking that if it was safe for animals it would be safe for humans too. Now you got me thinking about it. I just put cedar mulch around my hedge and bushes and the smell makes me cough, probably as I am asthmatic. I will have to re-think using it and also repti-bark which I hadn't thought of as being cedar or pine. Will changing out the mix regularly disapate the resin buildup? I have liked using the 5-1-1 as it is so lightweight and does not compact like other bagged soil or soiless mixes. It makes hauling around all my large container plants so much easier as I only have myself to move them around.
Cory
hobbyartisan (Saskatoon, SK Canada, 2b)
Original Author6 years agoI've called ZooMed for more info... they are busy, I am calling back.... stay tuned lol.
gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
6 years agoReptibark is NOT cedar and it is NOT pine - it is made from fir bark - a different plant genus altogether. And if it was so darn toxic or harmful to reptiles, the product would not be on the market or sold with such frequency to those who raise these creatures. It is even recommended by herpetologists!!
As to its use in a container planting mix, it is perfectly fine. For that matter, there is also no issue using the composted bark of any other conifer, including Thujas or junipers (both commonly referred to as "cedars"). The do not kill plants!! The turpins they contain resist decay - a very desirable feature for a durable container soil - and they also discourage a variety of insects. I would not have concerns about them destroying or even disturbing the soil biota in a container mix as the presence of soil microorganisms is not strong in any soil-less mix nor is it needed. We all need to remember that growing plants long term in containers - and it really does not make any difference what kind of plants - is distinctly different from growing them in the ground and different rules apply. That's why it is difficult to be completely organic in a container growing situation........things don't work the same way.
btw, bark-based soil mixes have long been considered superior mixes for any sort of long term container plantings. In fact, most commercial growers now use them for growing on their containerized stock. As a professional horticulturist and a long time container gardener, I would recommend them above any other prepackaged mix.
tropicofcancer (6b SW-PA)
6 years agoBrian and hobby: My goal is clarity and so far we have been beating around the bush. Blanket claims like cedar is harmful to plants, repti-bark is toxic, etc gets me thinking and researching. These are specific claims that can be verified and nothing to do with experience. So if he knows the answer then just point us to the right place - that would solve it easily. I did some research myself and posted my findings.
I am not debating whether his mix is superior to others either. But existence and benefits of bio-diversity in ground is a verifiable claim. No question about that. Extending that claim to containers without any supporting evidence is not verifiable.
There are two schools of thought that are poles apart. I am in the camp where I see that the benefits of soil aeration outweigh the benefits of soil biota. Logically I cannot see how a container whose moisture levels, air and temperature fluctuates wildly can support any soil biota.
I would love if containers can support bio-diversity like mother nature but every time I introduce some earthworms in any of my containers they seem to find their way back to the soil :( Slugs will make a long trek up the container and eat the leaves and trek back into the dirt.
Mycorhizzal fungi will populate containers to some extent but nothing like in the ground. It is easy to spot them since they form this white mat like network. Usually they tend to be close to conifers.
All my in ground plants never see any chemical fertilizer. None of my
plants including container ones see any chemical pesticide. I am not entirely opposed to organic fertilizer for containers either. I put the organic stuff in tea bags and leave them on top of the soil in summer. That way they do not clog up the mix. They act like slow release fertilizer. They need to be kept damp. Over a couple of weeks you will see some mould on them and start noticing they are decomposing slowly. I am not sure whether they help or not. I also use liquid fertilizer and CRFs in lower amounts for containers.- PRO
Greenscape Gardens
6 years agolast modified: 6 years agoLets just get this right out out the way here. There are definitely micro-organisms in your containers, just not the same diversity as if you were to plant into the ground. If you use a soil-less mix you won't have any bio diversity. However if you do use soil type mix with organic matter at different stages of decomp then it is very easy to cultivate beneficial bacteria.
Just to really quickly touch on mycorrhizae for a moment, it's added to potting soil by the pros because it drastically increases the uptake of nutes by a plants roots. It's just one kind of beneficial organism that is easily cultivated in a container.
Gardengal - I would be very interested to know if you as a professional horticulturist have experience with fruit trees in the bark mixture long term. My experience has been rather negative. The last nursery I was working for switched from the readily available 'triple mix' to promix for all their fruit because of massive problems. if you have experienced otherwise would love to hear :)
Laura LaRosa (7b)
6 years agoMy trees have been in the 5-1-1 for over a year now. I recently potted up a few that were in 5-1-1 from last year, so almost a year and the mix still looked great and was not broken down much. I like it because it is light and fast draining. I expect that about every 3-4 years I will have to change out the mix but because it is so light, it falls right off the roots which makes it easy. Unless very compacted, I have no intention of rinsing out the roots of my trees, although I have done that when necessary. Gardengal, you make excellent points. I said above, I have had nothing but success with the 5-1-1 and have used reptibark in my mix exclusively.
gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
6 years agoALL the nurseries here (and the PNW has more wholesale growing nurseries than anywhere else in the country) use a bark based mix as I stated. Fruit trees are no different than any other kind of tree and have no special demands (other than some specialized pruning and/or spraying requirements). I don't know what "massive" problems there would be........there is NO reason a bark based mix would not work and it has worked for me when I did grow fruit trees in containers (no longer do so due to lack of available sunlight). All my other trees - and I grow a lot - are in a bark based mix as well
FWIW, mycorrhizal fungi (not a bacteria) are quite different from the soil biology that decomposes organic matter to release the nutrients in it or an organic fert. And it has been effectively proven that quantities of decomposable organic matter in a container mix alters/slows drainage, decreases aeration and raises the perched water table - all very good reasons NOT to include in a long term container mix!
orangelime1
6 years agoLaura you have to wonder if it is the mix s we use or the how people take care of there tree's . I guess what I am trying to say there will always be failure not matter what mix we decide to use for some people green thumbs come naturally then there are the other people. Lol.
Brian
Laura LaRosa (7b)
6 years agoI am not a botanist, but it appears to me from a basic internet search that fir, cedar, and pine are entirely different species of trees and as such have different properties. Reptibark is made from FIR (as mentioned above) which does not appear to have any of the (justified or not) claims to toxicity of cedar being discussed above by Greenscape. We are not comparing apples to apples here. I have no doubt that the soil-less mixes like the 5-1-1 do not have the biodiversity that can be found in a soil mix. Again, you have to basically run a risk/benefit analysis based on YOUR particular growing conditions and make the call. What do you value more? Biodiversity in the mix? Drainage? Lightweight? Brian uses ProMix with great success. However, many of us also have great success with mixes like the 5-1-1, and many on this forum have been using these mixes much longer than I have. Regardless of the mix you use, it will break down over the years and will need to be refreshed. I don't have any problem with discussing the various mixes we use, but when someone makes a claim as substantial as that something is "toxic", then it needs to be backed up scientifically. As I have said on previous threads with "animated" discussions, anecdotal evidence is great, but to make a blanket claim of that magnitude, it needs to be backed up by solid evidence from peer-reviewed, scientific articles. No need for a doctoral dissertation though ;-)
Laura LaRosa (7b)
6 years agoBrian, I think we were typing simultaneously! LOL I agree. As an example, I took the time to make 5-1-1 mix for a good friend of mine and even potted the tree for her. This tree was dead within a few months (and should not have been). That was not the mix or the tree, but owner error and neglect.
orangelime1
6 years agoLol . Not really funny but brings up the point both of us are trying to make I think , some have the gift some not so much .
Brian
hobbyartisan (Saskatoon, SK Canada, 2b)
Original Author6 years agoThere are just so many darn variables!! And when you don't have ideal conditions like a greenhouse it does make it even more challenging.
It's like fishing frankly.... you can "do everything right" and still BOMB on the lake lol.
tropicofcancer (6b SW-PA)
6 years agoA lady in our block had this beautiful flowering plant in a pot in what looked like standard potting mix. I was admiring the vibrant colors when she mentioned they were made of plastic. And she watered it every few days to get the dust off :).
Hobby, a few posts above you made a comment on soil mixes. I was not debating whether one mix is better than another. I am sure Greenscape has successfully mastered the mix of his choice and produces very healthy plants.
I have tried many different mixes with many different components for soil and each has its pros and cons. The components I use: chicken grit (two different kinds), turface, haydite, growstones, akadama, kanuma, pine bark, peat, perlite, crushed brick, pumice, coarse sand and lava rock (red and black). Most are in 511 or some variant of it since it is cheap, light and quite universal. I do experiments with the others since they are quite different with regards to water and air porosity, bulk density, long term stability and nutrient holding and releasing capacity.
I have not tried are hydroponics or Steves air guzzling gizmo.
- PRO
Greenscape Gardens
6 years agolast modified: 6 years agoHi gardengal - The problems I am referring to ranged from root rot to acid burn (the mix turned sour; it's where the bark doesn't get any oxygen and pockets of acetic acid form in the soil).
I don't think I can agree with the statement that "fruit trees are no
different than any other kind of tree and have no special demands (other
than some specialized pruning and/or spraying requirements)", this is
just not true in my experience (having worked in both orchards in
nurseries and now running my own nursery). They are substantially more
temperamental then other trees and generally require higher levels of
care, different propagation methods, different fertilizers and have a
harder time surviving and recuperating from various stresses.Of course adding organic matter at different levels of decomposition to your mix changes it's drainage, but so does putting more holes in a pot. Drainage can be addressed multiple ways, like adding something that won't break down like bark will. Something else to think about is the fact that different thicknesses of bark would naturally degrade at different rates, so by your logic bark isn't good in a long term mixture as you previously claimed it was (even though as I just explained it can be, just amend with inorganic material to increase drainage long-term).
l should also make clear that Mycorrhizae is the beneficial relationship between a plant and specialized fungi that support said plant's roots and is not a single fungus but rather a descriptor for group of fungi. It is however a 'beneficial organism' as I stated.
here are a few pics:
the plumeria love a bark mix
I use maple chips when I keep my grafted Japanese maples in pots to grow out,
but if I added any conifer chips/bark of any kind to this native magnolia here, it would hate me, then die.
My point being that specific plants have specific requirements and it has been my experience that conifers can kill. Success with a specific medium will definitely vary depending on the level of the growers skill and the plants being grown.
gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
6 years agoI was hoping to avoid any more responses to this thread as I really do not wish to get into a debate. I don't accept your contention that fruit trees are any more fussy or temperamental or require any different planting considerations than any other tree. I've sold and planted too many trees in my lifetime and have never found these require any more specific consideration than do many other types of trees. Why would they? Most trees produce fruit or seed of some kind........why would only the ones we eat require something different??
I would also ask you to provide us with something a bit more scientific than just your experience to establish that bark kills certain types of plants. I'm sorry but I don't accept that contention either. And considering the popularity and widespread use of bark for high quality, durable potting soils and the success the vast majority of container gardeners experience using a bark-based mix, I am fairly certain most others don't accept it either.
I personally do not care what sort of potting soil you use. If it works for you, fine. But I do object to anyone making extremely misleading statements that can't be supported other than anecdotally, as they just misinform and confuse those new to container gardening.
Silica
6 years agolast modified: 6 years agoMycorrhizae has been brought up in this thread. About mycorrhizae. ALL (every) healthy citrus trees already have mycorrhizae, otherwise they would not be healthy. It is believed that it would not be possible for a tree to take up phosphorous regardless of how much fertilizer you used without mycorrhizae. It is ubiquitous, their spores are EVERYWHERE even floating in the air. For long term plants like citrus, even if you planted sterilized seed in sterilized soil, mycorrhizae would QUICKLY colonize it. As long as the plant is grown in open air, it would become reflected with mycorrhizae within weeks.
- PRO
Tropical Paradise
6 years agoI'm disappointed with this discussion; dissent is common folks, but please try to be less abrasive with your responses. These types of threads deter others from being more active in this community forum.
Laura LaRosa (7b)
6 years agoI am with gardengal on this one. I have seen no evidence whatsoever that verifies his claims of toxicity. Throwing claims like that around without being able to back them up other than with anecdotes is not acceptable in my eyes, and like she said above, can confuse those starting out. For every picture posted above, I can post at least five showing a perfectly healthy, happy tree in the 5-1-1, but that is also not scientific. I guess it had been a while since we've had a healthy debate on this forum...Hobby, you sure opened up a can of worms. ;-)
- PRO
Greenscape Gardens
6 years agolast modified: 6 years agogardengal - You
say you don't want a debate but respond with unsubstantiated statements
yourself. Congratulations, your argument is moot by way of your own
argument. lol What a joke. Why
would the fruit and vegetables we cultivate be more temperamental then the plants
that have evolved on their own ie in the wild? Well lets see..... people have been
modifying the food we eat for thousands of years. It's been bred for
taste and production; generally farmers don't intentionally expose their
crops to pests and diseases.... See where I'm going with this? It's pretty self explanatory. think about all the pests and diseases that affect cultivated food stuffs vs everything else in the garden.Personally I don't care what soil you use either and am glad that whatever works for you, works for you.
gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
6 years agoGreenscape, I am sorry but your "argument" doesn't hold water. The vast majority of the plants we consciously cultivate today are not native or wild plants but rather have been selected or bred for desirable characteristics. If your argument were sound, that would mean because of human intervention, ALL of these plants would be fussier in their requirements. And they are not. Aftercare may require some additional attention if the grower wants to harvest perfect, unblemished crops but the planting requirements - soil conditions - remain the same. And that is the topic under discussion........not that they might need spraying or thinning or protecting from insect predation...........only that they do not require specialized treatment regarding planting, the planting soil or container substrate.
And you have yet to provide any documentation - other than just your opinion - to support your contention that bark kills. If you can substantiate these currently unfounded claims, then I would be more inclined to concede your points.
Vladimir (Zone 5b Massachusetts)
6 years agoI posted this:
Vladimir: How about some scientific papers published in peer reviewed journals?
Then
you posted this:Greenscape Gardens:
But you have not just asked for a link to an academic paper,Now,
I know I did not specifically ask for a link, but that was what I expected,
although a citation would have been good enough.
Susanne Michigan Zone 5/6
6 years agoand since we are ad it, what is the purpose of the bark mixed in the soil?
Laura LaRosa (7b)
6 years agoSusanne, reptibark (fir bark) absorbs water and the roots access that moisture while still allowing porous air spaces to exist in the mix so that the roots do not "drown". I'm not explaining it well, but you get the gist. The 5-1-1 mix uses 5 parts fir bark (I use reptibark), 1 part coarse perlite, and 1 part peat moss. Because fir bark is so acidic, lime is added to raise the pH and allow the roots to access the nutrients available.
Susanne Michigan Zone 5/6
6 years agoso, it is for grower that would be otherwise not able to control moisture? Isn't the perlite doing the same but without adding too much acidity?
Susanne Michigan Zone 5/6
6 years agothinking about it, how do I know when the moisture in the bark is gone? Right now I use a moisture meter to check. But if it is bound it will show dry even if it is not
Vladimir (Zone 5b Massachusetts)
6 years agoSusanne, you are correct. Moisture meters give inaccurate readings, especially with 5-1-1. I dig down with my fingers a couple if inches and to see if it feels moist. Or, you can use a wooden dowel and push it all the way down to the bottom of the soil, pull it and a see if any soil sticks to it. If it does, then it is moist and does not need watering.
gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
6 years agoThe bark itself contributes very little to the soil acidity. The actual recipe for the 5-1-1 or the gritty mix calls for composted pine bark fines and much of the acidity is removed/neutralized during the composting. Even uncomposted bark will contribute little to the mix's acidity, a long time gardening myth that is very difficult to remove from peoples' mindset ;-)) It is actually the peat that contributes the acidic component, with a pH of 4-4.5.
myermike_1micha
6 years agolast modified: 6 years agoThe 'peat' is the low pH issue more than bark, therefore the reason why almost all good soil less mixes sold at nurseries or box box stores have added 'lime', also as an important ingredient.
Peat Moss has an acidic pH, generally in the range of 4.4
Fyi, I have been growing my trees, including Citrus, Houseplants, and Local Native ones such as Magnolia, Wisteria, Roses, and Blueberries in mixes with Repti-bark , Fir , Pine Bark for several years and no problems yet, in fact much better success than I ever imagined..
I also use Pro mix and other bagged mixes with better success than I did before I came here and learned of perched water issues so that I am in control like some here are. Brian being a great example!! His trees prove that.
But by far my most important concerns is using mixes that allow good oxygen exchange every time I water, so the reason why if I use a bagged mix, I watch it closely and refresh, change it out, re pot often, when using a 5.1.1 mix I watch for decomposition and compaction then re pot entirely, or when using the gritty mix I don't have to worry about using a fresh mix for years, but still watch how it behaves closely... So many methods but all have one thing in common: That use what works best for us as long as what works best for the roots, the heart of our plants..
It seems as if everyone is striving for the same thing, just in different ways. WE ALL care about our trees and that is why we all come here to share our experiences and facts..))
That we all have in common, and the fact that we all enjoy a nice conversation with different views, as long as it is done in style, with respect for others, and in good taste...
Mike)
Vladimir (Zone 5b Massachusetts)
6 years agoLime brings the pH up to around pH 6. It also adds calcium.
Susanne Michigan Zone 5/6
6 years agoIf trees are grown in 5-1-1 do they have to completely washed of the old substrate when repotting? or is that only when starting to use different mix? Now I have to look what gritty mix is. Just four year with my trees and no clue other then wanting them feeling good and produce some fruits.
myermike_1micha
6 years agoSusanne...If using a completely different mix, it's always best to get as much of the older different mix out as possible without harming the roots and or depending what time of the year it is...If you need reasons I am sure many can explain...Some prefer the easier route and just up pot into a similar mix but then they risk the vitality of their trees..
orangelime1
6 years agoMikey my friend your the man very well said good on you . This forum needs many many more of you . Mikey we are on our 5th day in a row of rain and thunder should be interesting to see how the tree's react. Mikey this rainbow was taken yesterday after a thunderstorm with hail .
. Hugs buddy
Brian
myermike_1micha
6 years agolast modified: 6 years agoHey Brian, what a beautiful pic and you gave such a beautiful person along with beautiful trees! The world could use many more like you along with some of the nice people here..))) Thank you for such a nice pic. You know how I feel about storms and rainbows! By the way, we got about 4 inches of rain yesterday thunder and lightning. A very active season. I'm loving it, It's been years! Wait until you see how this rain has affected my trees buddy. Hugs to you
To answer the question above?
Easy answer, no, Repti=bark it is NOT toxic for use for our citrus trees...)))
tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
6 years agoSome forum members are aware I grow primarily in a mix that is 2/3 inorganic, with fir bark representing the 1/3 organic fraction. I fertilize with a soluble synthetic fertilizer almost exclusively (FP 9-3-6), = a few tweaks, and my plants are extremely healthy. You can easily see that the "healthy" part should be taken at face value by viewing some of the hundreds of images of my plantings I've posted across the forums, though many of the mixed plantings are in the 5:1:1 mix. I think my plant's state of vitality demonstrates in absolute terms that courting soil biota is completely unnecessary when healthy containerized plants are the goal, though I have no axe to grind with those bent on pursuing that particular ideology. I give very little or no consideration to soil biota, and remain steadfastly in favor of focusing on (soil) structure and stability rather than the soils ability to "feed the plant", which leaves me more than pleased with the results I get. I'd never sacrifice my soil's structure or stability on the altar of its ability to provide nutrients; this, because a highly effective nutrient supplementation program is monkey easy if your soil allows you to water correctly. If you can't water correctly, instituting an efficacious supplementation program becomes much more difficult, so to me, water retentive soils (those that hold significant volumes of perched water - more than 1") are not worth the headache and loss of potential.
I use about 12 cu ft of fir bark per year in my soils, and have yet to even suspect that it causes any toxicity issues, though it can create some N immobilization if you don't fertilize frequently enough. Never having used Reptibark, I can't really judge it in comparison to the raw milled product I've been using, but I would think, with the number of growers using it, if it was problematic in any way the issue would have been brought into the light long before now .... but that's just my reasoning and nothing more.
As I scanned this thread, I saw a lot of misinformation that I wish I had time to address. I can't because I'm getting ready for a road trip tomorrow (bonsai convention), but maybe I'll join the conversation when I return.
Al
orangelime1