It would be best if you can show the whole room, so we can see how this fits within the rest if the room. A simple sketch with measurements and doors/windows marked on.

Is the building there or are you extending?

Hi Ellie,

It's part of a double storey side and single storey rear extension so pretty big. I've attached a few more photos if this helps. Top one is building regs, middle is the original architect drawings and third is my kitchen planner attempt.

I’m not very good at kitchen planning but just thinking if you swapped the position of the hob and bar stools everyone gets a view out of the doors. The cooking area is then contained so you’re not carrying hot dishes past everyone and you can also use the island for set down and there’s easy access to the fridge for those on stools. I don’t know where all your appliances are (?) so it may help to add these but I’d try and move the sink left just a little which would give more space for washed up items and set down.

alternatively swap fridge and ovens positions!

I would also have an integrated fridge and freezer.

where does the internal door in the utility lead to?

I agree with the suggestions to have an integrated fridge, having the stools with a garden view. I also think that the place you set down food from the oven needs to be bigger which means moving the sink.

Furthermore I think you need to consider the structural elements of the room- for instance is there going to be a vertical structural pier where the sink is now? Will ceiling beams interfere with the plans for cabinets and ceiling pendants? You need to be realistic about the size needed for stools and if you want five stools perhaps you need a larger knee space on the back of the island because I think you will have insufficient space for two stools at the end. I notice that the plan includes no fillers which is important to better allow cabinet and oven doors to open, it helps disguise uneven walls and it gives you the flexibility to order before the room is plastered and before you have the final measurement.

Hi Steff,

You could move the ovens to the fridge area and have one above the other, then move the sink along alittle further towards the glazed doors. This would then keep your cooking area together and also create more worktop space. At the moment you have one main prep area and not much space for kettle or drinks making. Otherwise Quooker hot taps are fantastic.

Hope that helps :))

@minnie101 thanks for the comments. I also would prefer to have the bar stools at the other end of the island but was concerned by the distance between them and the small structural wall sticking up into the kitchen. This wall can't be moved and I wasn't sure if access through to the utility would be sufficient. Is there enough room? I'm was pretty fixed on the island being the same size as the roof lights (plus counter on wall side being 3m as well) but if it wouldn't really matter or be noticeable then maybe a smaller island works?

The dishwasher was going to go between sink and ovens if that helps. Good point about the sink and I'll move that across a bit for more space.

Fridge and oven swap I considered but thought the fridge was better in a busier area than at the end as it would get used more. Why would you have integrated fridge and freezer? Is it because otherwise they stick out a bit?

The internal door to the utility goes to the garage if that helps.

Jonathan, thanks for your comments. Again as with the comments to Minnie101 I did think of having the stools the other way but wasn't sure if there would be enough room behind this to get past the structural wall. At the moment there is 1100mm between the run of units and the island but this is much less to the partition wall and figured that this would be a high traffic route in the kitchen. Maybe not a problem if no one is sat there though.

Again I'm curious as to why you prefer an integrated fridge and freezer, can you let me know?

Structurally, it is a brand new space and all steels apart from the steel from the partition wall to the sliding doors should be out of sight. This should mean that nothing gets in the way of cabinetry or lighting. Pendants may or may not be on a board as was planning a roof extractor but there may not be enough depth in the floor.

Good point about the knee space. I'm only looking for 4 stools and know recommended is 600mm per stool but wanted to keep the island to 1000mm to match the roof lights. This could be widened but then takes it closer to the structural partition wall.

I certainly hadn't thought about fillers so that is a great shout to leave room for these. Is 50mm enough at both ends?

Thanks again

Thanks Mark (Dual Designs).

We have sooooo much space compared to what we are used to so thought the ovens side by side would look nicer. Plus I tried to mirror the kitchen with tall units to give it balance. I will give your suggestion ago on a planning site to see how it looks though as hadn't considered it before.

Does the island not count as a prep space or is it because we have stools there it is a bit impractical now. Maybe moving the hob along would help?

PS If we still lived in Surrey I may have been given you a call. Your kitchens look great!!

Hi Steff,

Yes of course the island will count, though if you have people sitting round, it's nice to have this extra space. These are all just options and yes the ovens side by side do look nice. It's your kitchen so it just need to balance for you and good to consider all options of how you work.

Also with the seating at the other end, does seen not enough room. It's nice to be close to the large doors, especially in the summer when the doors are open .... Ah summer!!

Thank you for the lovely compliment ... we do London and surrounding counties if that helps :))

Thanks again Mark. Do you mean that seats away from the large doors wouldn't work because of room to access and they would be better on the other end near the windows? We've moved to the north west so not sure they have as much summer as the south!

Yes, it looks like walking around that end of the island will be restricted if you have the seating that end.

Sorry to hear you've lost the summer, though I'm sure it's very nice up there :))

Hi- the entire kitchen and living room looks lovely so I am sure it will be terrific no matter what you do. The drawbacks of the existing sink and oven placements have already been mentioned. Based on my recent kitchen remodel I would suggest the following:

1. Consolidate your cooking zone: I’d move the ovens close to the stove- it’s much more efficient for cooking and avoids issues with kitchen guests being in the way/ risks of hot food/ lack of set down space etc. One layout worth considering is placing your ovens side by side just under the counter, perhaps under the stove. Sort of like a fully bespoke range cooker.
2. To keep the cabinetry symmetry, consider turning one of the tall towers into a “breakfast cupboard”/ drinks zone. eg a cupboard with a worktop and perhaps fold back doors. It’s good for hiding countertop appliances and also useful as a bar when socialising.

Some floorplan tweaks:

Rooflights: As you need a lighting plan too, ceiling pendants and such, this placement would make more sense. Smaller rooflights, yet very effective.

Kitchen: Though not a fan of the oven placement, I've kept them where they are. Dishwasher directly next to them. Moved fridge because of working triangle. Freestanding is fine, as it breaks up the vast wall of kitchen cabinets. Added a drink-making corner with small second sink, imagine coffee machine going on there, nicely tucked in the corner. Made the island 260/280 x 120cm as there should be more clearance towards fridge and utility, plus seats now are a bit further from cooktop.

Dining: Table centered in front of garden doors. Again enough clearance for traffic. And no rooflight over it, so plenty room for a nice chandelier (wink).

Lounge: Not much changed. Moved sofas inward a bit to create nicer lines and walkways around the dining table.

Study and hallway suggestion: As I do not know the layout of the rest of the house, I kept the original wall as the study could double up as bedroom (or playroom) when slightly larger. By doing so, I've moved the hallway doors too, as it felt a bit odd to have such a long 'niche' added to the living area and the study door goes into the hallway aswell.

Some more fun with your layout. If the study wall says, the chunk in the kitchen area can be removed (same beam length). Break up the kitchen wall, as 6m sure is a lot. Some playful worktops make it easier for multiple people people to do their thing. Tall units hold appliances. Again coffee corner. Island about 320x120 with sink and cooktop.

Afternoon off hahaha, so here's another: Ovens behind cooktop. Fridge where utility door was, bit of worktop next to it. Utility door in hallway.

Thanks for your input rinked and I prefer the second one. Downside of both and perhaps should of mentioned before, is that above the kitchen is the new master bedroom. So can't have roof lights in that bit. I'd like to remove the 'chunk' but don't think it is possible as it is supporting the upstairs and the steel goes into it. I'm not sure that those two large steels (study to side, and chunk to rear) can be joined together as they are both 250+UB.

I do like the coffee corner idea and TV on study wall is a nice thought too, although may get a lot of glare from roof lights. For info we are going to remove the letterbox window on the side as it isn't needed with all the glass going in and proximity of next door.

Based on everyone's suggestions so far, I am now looking at integrated fridge and freezer units!

If so, only keep the middle rooflight then :)

And make sure there's about one meter between the 'chunk' and the island (120 is better).

I agree with changing the rooflights because the original position in the centre of rooms messes up light placements.

But the Integrated/ free standing fridge conversation polarises opinion. For me I don’t understand why someone would take an unattractive lump of metal and proudly frame it with the most expensive thing they buy for their house. Fridges are an appliance and are better hidden in my opinion.

I also think having a utility door in the hallway is more useful than having one from the kitchen. If you get rid of the kitchen door to the utility you increase wall space for space in the kitchen for a freezer and when you cone down stairs with the laundry it’s a quicker route to your washer.

Thank you all for the advice and suggestions so far. I've incorporated lots into an updated plan attached. This one is pencil to show more measurements. Things I've changed based on your feedback are:

1) Moving hob to other end of island to keep cooking area all in the same space.

2) Binned the American fridge in favour of separate integrated fridge and freezer

3) Centred the sink into the middle of the base units

4) Put a dish drainer above the sink to keep countertop free (seen on other discussions)

5) Moved island seating to opposite end to view garden. This is going to be our house for the next 15 years or more so think this would bother me if it wasn't.

6) Widened the island to 1200mm and shortened it to 2700mm. Doing this and moving the island 100mm closer to the side wall gives around 1200mm clearance to the 'chunk' structural wall that can't move.

I love the idea of a tall cupboard being a breakfast cupboard as @pjdklm suggests to house, cereals, bread, toaster maybe even microwave. 600mm is probably too small so I could reduce the sink or base units by 200mm to make an 800mm cupboard between the fridge and freezer. Does this sound better? The sink run then would be 3000mm which matches the rooflights.

@rinked and @Jonathan thanks for your suggestions and I like the simplicity of the latest design form rinked. However I'm not bothered about distance to washing machines from upstairs as if I'm using the back door, the first thing I'm doing is putting the kettle on. I also want to have the large back room and so don't need as much room for the study or hallway from front door. I take your points about the rooflight above the dining table but with pendants above the island, I'm not sure if I want anything else hanging down from the ceiling. Plus I guess we can always use candles and lamps etc and then we can look up at the night sky. We also have an east facing garden, so have great morning sunshine but if the rooflights were as close to the first floor (as in rinked's designs) they would be in shade by about 1 or 2pm.

A bit more balanced kitchen cabinet sizes, just as a kitchen designer might have envisioned. Let me walk you through:

Filler panel, coffee corner on the left with 2 depths upper units, freezer, fridge, side panel, dishwasher, 90cm sink drawer with bin boxes in the loower drawer, 90 drawer for plates and bowls, side panel, ovens, filler. Aside from the upper units on the far left, there are no upper cabinets, just a full width alcove with lights in it. Perhaps a shelf over the worktop, but mainly decorative.

Island has: overhang, side panel, 45 wine cooler, 80 drawers for utensils, 90 cooktop with downdraft (I suppose?), 45 door, side panel. And at the front 3x 45cm wide doors. The island will have space for 3 people, as the 120cm on the left of it is fairly high traffic.

Imagine the sink and island units in a different color from the others. I'd say lighter, make them stand out. And I played with cabinet sizes lining up, but the way I did them now, the island had the same width as the sink area. And multiple people can move around without bumping into eachother too much.

@rinked thanks for this, it is certainly posing some thoughts. I do only have 6240mm on the sink wall so would have to lose about 500mm. I guess this would be from the sink run or coffee corner.

Are filler panels needed next to ovens and fridges? I know they are at the ends to help doors open and for uneven walls but didn't know the appliances needed them.

With losing about 500mm from the sink run, I will need to lose about 300mm from the island as the sticky out wall will be too close and won't allow clearance. Maybe 60 drawers for utensils and 80 for cook top?

@rinked meant to say good point about two different colours on the units. I was thinking darker on the island and sink run (maybe a blue) then lighter on all the tall units. Will look at it the other way round now though. Thanks

Don't forget to have some landing space for the stuff coming out of the ovens, otherwise you will be moving around with hot baking trays. You will need some extraction the hob - maybe a downdraft as it's on the island? it might be more comfortable to have two sets of two stools that are on different parts of the island so knees don't knock. This also means that people can sit facing different views - depending on time of day or if somebody is cooking.