Working with an interior designer

11 years ago

Hello.

I recently worked with an interior designer on my dining room. It is gorgeous. I was very much looking forward to working with her on the rest of my house.

Here is my problem. She recommended a buffet from a manufacturer from which I was ordering my daughter's furniture. I was curious, so I asked the sales person to quote me the price of the buffet.

The sales person quoted me HALF of what my designer quoted me! Nothing in her contract said anything about me paying a mark up on the furniture she found for us. Regardless, I would have been fine paying 20% more, but 100% more seems outrageous. I paid her what I considered to me a substantial design fee.

I am turned off to this designer, but still need help. I'd like to look elsewhere, but now I'm wondering if this is how the process works.

Insight would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks!

Featured Answer

PRO

Mona Ives

11 years ago

I only read some of the above comments but feel compelled to weigh in.

1) The designer should include markup information in the contract. Mine says that I reserve the right to markup retail merchandise between 10-40% over store prices when not available at a to-the-trade discount (think homegoods or cheap stores that don't provide trade pricing) and custom merchandise between 30-60% over wholesale (my best price). This tends not to exceed what you would pay retail by more than 10-20%.

This is on top of a flat fee or hourly fee for services that frankly barely covers my travel costs i.e. gas/mileage and other expenses required to do the job.

2) Most designers I know do not have this type of transparency in the contract. If they mention markup in their contracts at all they would never list the percentage. I simply believe in transparency because it prevents situations JUST LIKE THIS ONE.

If you didn't appreciate the markup level, don't get turned off. Simply call your designer, tell them that you weren't expecting to be marked up at 100% rate and that you'd like to work with her on a new project, but you would like more favorable pricing terms and you would like those terms to be spelled out in the contract ahead of time. If she is a professional she will understand and will be willing to negotiate terms with you. Problem solved. If not, move onto someone else and insist they spell this out in the contract not just verbally.

Don't assume she had an evil intention of robbing you. She simply may not have had access to as good pricing as the retailer did. This has happened to me many times. I have clients come to me and say they found a better price online for something and I call my manufacturer and ask they tell me that they can't give me that price even wholesale. So how could I possibly sell it to a client for that price?! Does that mean I'm intentionally trying to rob my client? Nope.

Now she may have overdone it with the markup but don't automatically assume she had ill will or something like that. I have had clients come up with pricing that was astronomically lower than I could ever hope to achieve and it has nothing to do with me. Some larger retailers can command substantially lower prices than small design firms and will do anything to drive customers to their stores.

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Comments (40)

decoenthusiaste
11 years ago
Welcome to the design world! Yes, it does happen. Have you re-read your contract and the fine print? Taking a mark up is acceptable and standard procedure for designers, who usually get a great wholesale price for pieces they purchase for clients. 100% does seem high, especially if not custom pieces and the mark up is taken on a retail price, instead of a wholesale one. Such a thing can be expected in some metropolitan areas, I'm sure.
PRO
Brickwood Builders, Inc.
11 years ago
I will be interested in hearing the responses from designers. My impression would be this is typical and that most professionals mark up materials.

For a little different perspective, as consumers we pay our doctors a fee for their time plus a markup on any products that are provided through the medical facility - and that far exceeds a 100% markup.
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snowball_369
11 years ago
You like the designer and their style and would like to use them again. Tell them how much you appreciate their advice and knowledge. Could you hire them as a consultant and get the furniture or other items on your own and do any work on your own? Ask about the mark-up. There might be a reason you don't know about or understand, maybe not. Working together you might be able to come up with a better contract to suit both of you. I have trouble paying the mark-up as well. Working with contractors I will do a lot of fetching or sitting at the county offices for permits. I am great un-skilled labor and I take advantage of myself whenever I can.
PRO
melindas inspirations
11 years ago
i am a designer and that crazy how she did that. there is usal fee,but not like that and should be listed in your contract.but yes snowball 369 is correct just hire some one flat rate for certain amount of hours and they should welcome your buisness as being a consultent for u.
groveraxle
11 years ago
I don't know how designers work, but architects normally get furnishings for approximately 60% of retail. I assume it's the same for designers, and if so, it sounds like her markup was more like 200 percent. Of course, a designer is free to charge whatever s/he wants, but I would suggest spelling out the terms if you work with her again.
PRO
Linda
11 years ago
If you enjoyed working with her, it would probably be worthwhile to have a discussion with her about this subject.

I've always thought one of the advantages of working with a designer was that the furnishings didn't cost more to the end customer than simply buying at full retail price. I thought that designers make money from the commissions paid by the supplier, not by marking up retail prices. In my opinion, charging someone for the effort involved in selecting something and then marking it up sounds like double-dipping to me.
User
11 years ago
I am not surprised by what can only be described as a morally and ethically reprehensible practice.

I consider it devious and underhanded.

Apologists should be ashamed.
designideas4me
11 years ago
I agree with aja................. this is what gives designers a bad name and makes people like me believe that its not worth working with one because they are trying to rip you off and not help you. I do think that they are worth getting paid for their advice and skills but the price of a product should not be marked up to line their wallet while the poor customer is taken advantage of.

I recently needed a pool pump and my pool guy who I pay monthly to service my pool, said he would get me the pump and install it and only charge me 50 bux to install and get it at a good price only he could get thru a wholesale place. Great it seemed he was trying to help me.........but no...........he was deceptive and if I didnt do my own checking and investigation I would never have known that he got it cheaper and passed on a huge mark up to me. WHAT !!! I dont think so. I confronted him with this and he said he doesnt make that much just servicing my pool and part of his income is to get his customers the replacement parts they need and in doing so he charges a 40% mark up. Oh I get it. Thanks for telling me...............after the fact. Ummmmmmmmmmm I dont think so... I need every penny I have and not going to pay you a mark up for something I could have got myself for 30% less. Oh and thanks for lying to me and making it seem like I got a deal. Geez. You need to watch people carefully. He is a good guy and we discussed it and he agreed from now on if I need a part I can get it and he will install it or we will both discuss and look into the price options ( many posted on the internet) and I will pay the lowest price. So he gave me a $300 credit towards the next few months of service. My point is. Service fees are one thing but buying products and deceiving a client with a mark up is another. I used to sell cars. I know how the game works. Buyer beware.
lefty47
11 years ago
HI -- Yes, this is how some of the designers work but not all , some are high and some more budget friendly. Just how did you think a designer earns their living anyhow. They charge for the time it takes to run around finding items for people . They can't afford to work for nothing . How she earns her fee and what she charges you should have been discussed with her before she started. Just be glad you are not a celebrity or a notable person , then you may have payed 3 or 4 hundred % more for something . Some designers get into the higher ups and have outragious commissions. Some designers are very good at what they do and some not so much , so you have to pay for the level of earned talent and reputation. I am sorry you feel so cheated . I have been there too.
designideas4me
11 years ago
I think the bottom line is...................... she should have been honest about it. if a celeb is ok paying 5x as much for a service no big deal. if a modest homeowner is ok paying 2x as much fine......it is a service like any other..............bottom line........... a professional should not make a living being deceptive.............many do but its not right. I know in sales deception can be the name of the game but if someone is truely worth the years of talent than let them get paid for their advice and other skills that help to make the room great............not their ability to deceptively mark up furniture.
PRO
E Jackson Design
11 years ago
I have the enviable responsiblity of wearing both hats, I work as the designer and estimater for a cabinet manufacturing company. I have a really hard time with this because I can barely mark up materials or labor on the cabinets we build and still remain competitve. Sometimes I am expected to kick back to other designers for a substantal referral fee. I always have to ask where that money is coming from? Are you (the designer) and I so good that the client will gladly pay an extra 10% on a $10,000 wall unit? Probably not. Job is lost.
I always ask what is that mark up for? I as the designer tell my customers it is for me measuring for, handling, paying for, responiblity of that product, guarentees because of my relationship with the vender which is invaluable. I figure I am making a excellent hourly wage. The mark up is for the responsiblity of the product or marking up labor to manage the trades. It is not free money, it is not a gift.
I would be so embarassed if a client of mine found out I marked something up 100%. She has lost your trust. And probably a good client.
User
11 years ago
The honesty and emphasis placed on relationships of E Jackson Design clearly demonstrates
why E Jackson Design received a 5 star review!

http://www.houzz.com/browseReviews/stefannrogers/e-jackson-design
PRO
JMittman Designs
11 years ago
I would not be so quick to judge the designer since we obviously don't have all the details. @jerjela--did you both order from the same place--the designer bought the item at a retail price from the same place you did? Or did she purchase it from one of her wholesale accounts, and it happened to be from the same manufacturer you ordered from? Did you order direct from the manufacturer? Were you charged an hourly rate by your designer? We don't know what your contract was.

@designideas4me--did your pool guy tell you he would sell you the part at wholesale, or that he could "buy" it at wholesale. Were you expecting him to sell you the part for the same price he paid for it?

Keep in mind that it is quite possible for a designer's wholesale price for a product to be a retail price--or higher somewhere else. A designer will not pay the same price to order 1 buffet that a retailer buying 500 of them will.

Your designer, pool guy, plumber, architect, etc. assumes all the risk when they order items for you. They maintain their wholesale accounts, research the products, do the ordering, shlepp the products around, and deliver everything to your home--there is MUCH risk involved in this and is all the cost of doing business.

@jerjela--I would have a discussion with your designer and clear up the any issues with your contract.
PRO
Designs for All Seasons
11 years ago
I agree with JMittman, you should talk it through with your designer. It may be that the furniture maker is just offering you a much cheaper price because you are buying other furniture from him. Some suppliers have a 'trade' price and a 'retail' price but they don't always stick to those prices and might offer a retail sale price which can sometimes actually be less than they are selling it to trade customers. It sounds mad but I have been caught out in the past and it is really awkward if a client can ring up a supplier and get a cheaper price than the supplier gives to his trade customers. It shouldn't happen but it sometimes does!
PRO
Designs for All Seasons
11 years ago
Also remember it is january sales time and he may just have some furniture he wants to shift at this time of the year!
Jayme H.
11 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
You seem to be a very nice person & what came to my mind was, "Caveat Emptor" or "buyer beware", a little phrase I learned taking real estate courses. Unfortunate that we must do this, but it applies in all areas, car repairs, home repairs, even banking. I am sorry you got the shaft. This would make me reluctant to work with this designer again. I am sure you could find one that you will work well with and like, and one who won't stick it to u again. In business, people mark up products to make money, but this sounds a bit excessive to me.
PRO
Renaissance Kitchen and Home
11 years ago
I have to agree with JMittman Designs and Designs for all seasons'
comments. You really need to check with your designer on exactly what you got a price on and what she was ordering. Also, there are alot of additional professional courtesies that the designer will provide when doing the entire job for you. They will check all materials that they order, coordinate deliveries, check inventories, suggest optional accessories etc.
Remember it's not all about price. When you hired your designer it was because you were happy and excited about their work and how they could help transform your vision. I would get all your information together had have the "Heart to Heart" talk that this dilemma desperately needs.

Torry Manzo
Renaissance Kitchen & Home
PRO
R J Hoppe Inc
11 years ago
I agree with JMittman Designs. I find this discussion facinating. As a manufacturer where do I turn? The compition is feirce. I have a shop and yet I am competing with folks who work out of a van. Something has to give and that something is always quality. The old addage of you get what you pay for still holds true. Is a 100% markup excessive, if your paying it and don't see the value yes. If you are receiving it and have to pay the expenses of running a business no. The best advise I can give is have an open discusion about fees and expenses, clear the air. If still not satisfied move on.
Jayme H.
11 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Maybe it's just me,,,,, but under whatever circumstances a 100% mark-up seems pretty substantial. I understand supply, demand, sales, inventory clearance, etc.. At the very least, I think the designer had some responsibility to discuss options with the customer. IE:" I can get this piece for you for ....., however, there is a possibility you could get a better price yourself ", and explain services encompassed in the transaction of the obtaining of the furniture, if any. That is integrity, and will help develop a positive client-provider relationship.. Unless the designer went and got a pick up truck and hauled, moved and installed the piece, I say she/he overcharged.
PRO
Brickwood Builders, Inc.
11 years ago
Mona, you're correct and well said. Because we have contract pricing at Sherwin Williams, when they run sales to their retail trade (consumers) we sometimes pay more for a product than if the customer walked in and bought it off the shelf. This is a small item I realize, but confirms the point that sometimes we don't get deals.
PRO
Jonathan Hress Design
11 years ago
I would say 20-30% markup is fair and more standard. Be aware that a designer's wholesale price for an item can vary based on the volume of product that designer is able to sell within a year. That is why you find several prices for the same item. For example: You see a sofa advertised at a local furniture store. They sell 60,000 worth of that manufacturer a year. They get a lower wholesale price. a local designer cannot usually get that price unless they can match volume.
Jayme H.
11 years ago
Sounds like honesty and good communication are the key.
PRO
JMittman Designs
11 years ago
Mona, I like a lot of what you said, but I do respectfully disagree that a designer should feel the need to lower her mark up because a client thinks it is too high. The designer has her mark up at a level that works for HER (HIS) business. A client should not get to dictate how you run YOUR business. My mantra "everyone is not your client". I would rather have 5 jobs that pay me $1000 each than 10 jobs that pay me $500 each. Work smarter, not harder.
PRO
David J. Design Inc.
11 years ago
I always just charge the client the retail price and I take my designer's discount which ranges from 10-20%. I have never had an issue. I would like to hear the designer's side of the story just to be clear.
PRO
Mona Ives
11 years ago
Jmittman i agree. What i meant is the designer should be willing to disclose and negotiate. If she doesnt want to work for less than that markup then the customer should walk away or pay what the designer asks.... bur know what she's paying. I dont believe every designer should lower their price. If a client called me with this (and many have) i would simply say well that is the price for mmy work and let them pay or walk.
PRO
Julie Thome Draperies, Inc.
11 years ago
It sounds like a communication problem, and as everyone else has pointed out, pricing can vary so much from vendor to vendor. I assume you are sure the buffet is exactly the same as the one she specified. While I am not justifying 100pct markup, remember that in the event of defects (and they are VERY common) the designer will make sure that what you order arrives is in good shape, and if it doesn't she will deal with replacement. This is something that as a DIYer you would have to deal with yourself.
By your own admission , you said your room was "gorgeous". I would not be so quick to dump this designer over the pricing of one item. I am sure you and her can work out the situation if you give her a chance.

Let us know how it turns out with her.
User
11 years ago
Greed is very unbecoming.
PRO
Renaissance Kitchen and Home
11 years ago
Great comments everyone, I feel you should be full of useful knoweledge to resolve your issues and bring your points to the surface with your designer. Just make sure you were quoted an "apples to apples" bid on the exact item.

Hope it all works out for both of you,

Torry Manzo
Renaissance Kitchen and Home
2dogssashatess
11 years ago
To be fair to your designer, the prices anyone pays for an item can vary greatly. e.g. I was looking for a toy online as prices are cheaper (very often) than going to a store. The toy varied from $100 -$150 approx when buying online! A 50% difference is substantial.

Buying it from a shop would cost maybe $200.

You may have been offered a special price because they were directed to move stock and your designer may have not been offered that price.
You can go into any retail store and pay one price one day and the next day it is their sale and you see the exact same item for 70% less!

I am not a designer, have never hired one ( through lack of funds, not lack of appreciation for their skill) and have no vested interest in defending them. I am just a realistic shopper.

I buy antiques usually. at auctions because it is cheaper. When you go to auction rooms you appreciate that dealers may spend hours at auction rooms inspecting goods, collecting goods and have to transport them, pay rental on their shop, they are taxed on their profits etc. Yes, when you go to a shop there is a mark up, but you see something you like and have the convenience of easy purchase as the hard work was done for you. I have bought two pieces from a shop ( and I dare say the markup was huge, but the pieces were rare, I would look for ages before I got something, they imported them from overseas, pay exorbitant rental on their shop etc)

I imagine having a designer purchase items is a similar case
PRO
LM Designers
11 years ago
I thought that was part of the perk of hiring a designer that they could buy it for less than the public and with a mark up it would still be close to store retail. They are getting paid an hourly fee plus their mark up. I don't think a 100% mark up is reasonable at any time.
PRO
Julie Thome Draperies, Inc.
11 years ago
It used to be that way once upon a time when there were "trade only" vendors out there..but now in the age of the internet many vendors are no longer trade only and everyone has access to the same pricing on most things as designers do. In hiring a designer you are getting much more than someone to buy stuff for you. There is a whole level of service involved, plus you are getting their taste and their eye, which is all too often overlooked. It is also common practice (depending on the contract) for a designer to get paid a markup for any item that the homeowner purchases without them as well. Sort of like the designer "signs off" on the suitability of the item to the overall scheme.

This thread should not be about "designer bashing". It is about a contract that was entered into, and a pricing issue.
feeny
11 years ago
Thank you, LM. I have heard many designers on Houzz point out that professional designers not only have access to items that are sometimes unavailable to regular consumers, but also receive discounts that are partially passed on to their clients (with a reasonable markup, but still sometimes less than the retail price). This is one of the best arguments for the affordability and wisdom of hiring a designer. So I think that designers like the one jerjela hired, with the 100% mark up, give the profession a bad name and potentially discourage homeowners from seeking out professional help. Thus it seems important for designers on this site to confirm, if it is indeed the case, that this 100% mark up over the retail price (plus their design fee) is not standard practice in the profession.
anitajoyce
11 years ago
Sorry to hear of your problem with the designer. This is where the HOUZZ community ( full of designers and just regular people) come in very handy with some great ideas and advice for anybody that wants and needs help, when you can or can't afford a designer. So, if I were you , I would turn on to the House community to get some great design advise!

Since you are unsure of where to turn, would you be interested in posting a picture of any room in your house that you may need advice on? Maybe the HOUZZ community can help! I agree with other comments and I hope everything works out for you.
User
11 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
I think this is a useful discussion because I believe that a lot more people would hire interior designers if they felt the services and fees were more transparent and that the communication was more open and they understood what they would be paying for. Jerjela, given that you thought the room was gorgeous, I think it would be worth talking with the designer. There could be many reasons for the pricing discrepancy. At the same time, I disagree with J Mittman in saying that she was only interested in $1,000 jobs and not $500 jobs or that the client shouldn't dictate pricing. The concern for a lot of people is that they will have no control over costs and of course they do dictate purchasing as it is their money and their business, they hire the designer based on whether they can afford them or not. People are afraid that they will pay a price and be left with a half done job or that the interior designer will be more interested in purchasing high end items for a percentage or high markups with hidden costs down the line. I think it's an important topic to discuss in that there would probably be a lot more people interested in interior design service help if they understood what was considered acceptable or egregious. As for just going for the jobs that are double what other jobs would be, that's fine, and every business person does have to decide what they will work for, but at the same time, there might be lots more people who could pay a lower price rather than a higher one that could mean more business for interior designers overall. Interior design has a reputation and I don't think it should be a valid one, that it is only available or affordable for those who are wealthy. I think because of this, lots of people who might be interested in hiring a designer are afraid to as they are not sure of how things would be priced, or what it might possibly cost.
PRO
Linda
11 years ago
J Mittman was right on time with the comment about everyone is not your client. Some business we just don't even bother to quote because the only result from doing the work is a distraction from doing the work we should be doing. Just because we are capable of doing something doesn't mean that we are the customer's best option and doesn't mean that it is worthwhile business for us. If we aren't busy enough, then it's time to hustle up business that plays to our strengths. We have to be very careful to avoid getting involved in projects just because we're looking for a change of scenery.

People in a service business have to be careful not to feel a responsibility for helping anyone with any problem that might occur. We have the best relationships with customers when we can hand them off to another person who specializes in their area of concern. Those referrals pay off for us when the other people send business our way and we can do a wonderful job for a customer at a good price because we really have the experience needed for the project.
John Seiffert
11 years ago
A contractor friend received a price from another contractor to perform a service for a client. A mistake was made by the service provider in the billing, which was severely undercharging. In the end the client was charged for the full amount while my friend pocketed the mistaken amount of money.

Designers, what would you do in this situation ???
PRO
E Jackson Design
11 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
John, I would absolutly, with no second thought, pass it on to the client. Of course I would point out what a great guy (chick) I am for it. That kind of stuff is the best customer service you can give. Best chance for a stellar customer referral.
Glad your friend bragged about it. Now what goes through your head when you have to hire a trade?
PRO
Julie Thome Draperies, Inc.
11 years ago
John, if this was a someone I regularly contracted to I would point out the error to them and make sure they were paid properly. Unless we look after our subcontractors/vendors, the will not look after us and it will get harder to offer a service to our own clients then.
I've always made sure my vendors get looked after.
hooked123
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago
I worked at a boutique Furniture store and they definitely get much cheaper prices then designers. I was looking for a bar cart and the furniture store‘s cost was $525 which would have been put on the floor retailed at $1150 I asked a designer friend to check her flat cost without a markup and hers was $850.

I was also interested in a dresser that at cost was $698 would have been put on the floor at $1550. While visiting with my designer friend I asked her to check what her cost was, we logged onto her computer, her cost was $1100 that’s with a trade account and no mark up.

Working with an interior designer

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