36" gas ranges: Capital, Dacor, Thermador, Miele
We're redoing our kitchen - a pre-war NYC apartment. We need to get an all-gas range because redoing the electricity for dual-fuel would be too expensive and risky. I'd like a 36" range. Self-cleaning is a must because I do a lot of high-temp roasting. So this narrows the choice down to Capital, Dacor, Thermador, Miele; other brands like Viking and Wolf don't offer 36" all-gas self-cleaning ranges. Which would you pick and why?
Comments (26)
dreamhouseforsomeday
8 years agoI second what Patricia said...I've even heard from various sources that the extremely high heat during self-cleaning mode can (over time & repeated use) cause damage to ranges.
Lisa Bear99
7 years agolast modified: 7 years agoHi Bill, I must vote against Thermador. I'm not trying to torque off any Themador lovers, only our last remodel has put me off the brand, at least for some time. We got a 'package deal' when we remodeled. We chose 30"double ovens (the really cool, retro look with analog clock), warming drawer and cook-top with telescopic down draft. This was summer of 2011. By 2015: on/off indicator light on warming drawer went kaputt. Drawer still worked, but the dead light bugged me, so I had it replaced. My luck, the repair wasn't as simple as one'd think, swap out a bulb, no. It required replacing a panel to the tune of about $250. Next, the telescopic down-draft began to squeak like nails on metal. Repairman back and I forget what it cost...the fix involved food-grade silicone spray. Just before we sold the house last year (husband's job transfer) the double ovens began to spook me...again the indicator lights...they'd come on dimly when the ovens were off. I called the repairman (got to know him too well) and when he arrived, the dang things were NOT doing their spooky little thang. They came back on (and then again off) after he left. He suggested we just wait and watch; the ovens worked fine, it was just the possessed indicator lights. The refrigerator (fully integrated and gorgeous) never gave us any trouble. The water filters were about $50, which may be typical, I don't know. Anyhow, I'm off Thermador for now. Good luck with your decision! <3
Lori
7 years agoMy first double oven Thermador lasted 20 years and was still going strong so when we renovated, we again went with Thermador. Love the. Don't like their cooktop so much but that's only because I think those star-like centers look weird. Went with a Wolf cooktop and love that too.
Vee phord
7 years agoWe had a Capital Maestro installed in my new build home. It's been a month and we still haven't used it yet because it is leaking gas. Service has been out twice already, changing little tubes that are inside the unit. It's still leaking gas and one of the knobs won't depress now. Capital refuses to allow the unit to be taken out to be repaired in the shop. I have them scheduled to return for a 3rd time next week. My heating and cooling tech is going to test the valve AGAIN to ensure that the gas leak is not from the main valve. If this does not work, I'm switching to another cooktop. The problem is I'm not sure which one.
stuarton
7 years agoAvoid Thermador -- quality has gone down considerably and no customer service at all! I could not agree more with Lisa Bear99 on her assessment.
PROBaker + Hesseldenz Design, Inc.
7 years agoWe specify a lot of Miele products. Their new line of ranges are very nice. Worth a look.
Bill R
Original Author7 years agoUpdate from OP: We went with Miele, the HR1134 6-burner all-gas range. The design is excellent, best cooktop and oven I've ever used... when it's working right. However, this is a new product (Miele has only been producing it for a couple of years), and the reliability has been horrible. It's been 6 months and we have had 3 service calls already.
After about a month of use, one of the burners would not light. They had to pull the unit from the wall in order to get at the innards of the cooktop and replace the mechanism. The second call was for another burner, which turned out to be a clogged gas line. The third time, long story short, there is a black piece that sticks out of the top of the oven frame to register the oven door closing. The oven will not light unless the door is closed. The black piece melted. The oven would not light.
The other problem I have with Miele is that while they are great on the phone, their lead time for getting a service tech to our apartment was over a week, every time. It's not like we live in rural Montana or something - we live in Manhattan. That's just not acceptable.
I told our appliance dealer that we were thinking of asking for our money back and switching to Capital. Miele's sales organization intervened and we're getting a new unit. We'll see if our original unit was a lemon or if this model is just not ready for prime time.
pattylaup
6 years agoI'm thinking about getting this product and wondered if your replacement range is functioning more reliably?
Bill R
Original Author6 years agoIt's been 4 months and we have had no problems with the replacement unit. I really like the functional design - minimal, intuitive, no bells & whistles, no silly touch pad interface that will just break. The broiler is the best I have ever used. Self cleaning works well. Burners are powerful; heating a pot full of water for pasta takes no time. I tested the oven temp and it's accurate despite the lack of digital display. My only quibble is that the burners often take a long time to light, 6 clicks or more.
pattylaup
6 years agoCan't thank you enough. We live in Manhattan too and I was thinking of getting this range from PC Richards.
Bill R
Original Author6 years agoOne thing you should note is that Miele will want to do the installation themselves (instead of the dealer doing it) and charge you a couple hundred bucks for some sort of "white glove" or "red carpet" service. We chose to do this and I'm glad we did. There was a question whether the unit would fit through the door to our apartment. The people from the dealer (AJ Madison in Brooklyn) took measurements and weren't sure it would fit. But the Miele folks figured out a way to get it in.
Another thing: it turns out that the probable cause of the plastic part mentioned above melting was running the broiler on high setting for too long (like half an hour). That broiler is really "nuclear powered." For >$6000 Miele should change that part to metal. But otherwise running the broiler normally hasn't caused any problems.
pattylaup
6 years agoGreat advice and I think I'll just buy it direct from Miele. I'll be careful with extended broiling!
Bill R
Original Author6 years agoTo be clear, you have to buy it from a dealer, but the dealer will ask you if you want to arrange for Miele to do the install. We have dealt with PC Richard in the past and have had generally been satisfied, but we used AJ Madison for our kitchen renov last summer because our contractor had a relationship with them, and I like them better. It's worth going to their (huge) showroom in Brooklyn to go hands on with the products. The sales guy we dealt with was John Pereira, whom I'd have no hesitation in recommending. I don't think the prices on Miele appliances are any different from one dealer to another.
pattylaup
6 years agoOne more question - does the Miele oven have a noisy fan? Complaints about the Thermador all gas 36" range fan noise made me want to avoid it. Thank you!
pattylaup
6 years agoHi Bill - We installed the Miele and bought it from John Pereira. Here's my problem and it's a big one. I have a Caesarstone backsplash behind the range and it's getting incredibly hot when I use the oven. I think the heat may be yellowing the stone which cost a small fortune. I'm terrified to try the self cleaner. What do you have against the back of your range? Is it getting really hot? I've contacted John Pereira but haven't heard back yet. Thanks so much for your thoughts
Bill R
Original Author6 years agoHi, we actually have a similar problem. We installed a tile mural behind the range. There's an artist in Colorado named Linda Paul who has a process for reproducing her paintings on porcelain or ceramic tile and coating them with some sort of proprietary sealant. This is what we have: http://www.lindapaul.com/italian_kitchen_backsplashes_mural_Mediterranean.htm. It's lovely, but it has gotten yellow from the heat. I tried bleach but it didn't do anything. So we're living with it. Worst case, we could have the tile replaced (it's standard 6" square white tile). We have run the self-cleaning feature of the range a few times, but I think the more relevant point is that I do lots of high-temp roasting (450-500 degrees).
I'd be interested to learn anything that John Pereira says about this. Linda Paul didn't have any ideas when I asked her.
pattylaup
6 years agoThis is a major design flaw. It is also a fire hazard. I also like to roast at high heat. This range is not ready for residential use.
Bill R
Original Author6 years agoI don't see that it would be any different with another range. All those ranges put out high heat through rear vents. This is especially true if you use the convection setting, which I do.
pattylaup
6 years agoWell, I've never had this problem with 25 years of cooking in a Dacor oven in my apartment. The heat from the Miele range could easily start a fire. So disappointed
Bill R
Original Author6 years agoWhat Dacor model did you have? If it's that old, the BTUs coming from the oven are probably a lot lower than the "arms race" you see from pro-style ranges nowadays. I looked at various other ranges - Wolf, Thermador, Capital, KitchenAid, JennAir, and also Dacor - and I saw similar specs. I suspect that many people buy these ranges and then don't really use them like you and I do...
pattylaup
6 years agoYou're right. My Dacor was 30" wide and didn't have nearly the horsepower of the 36" Miele. Service is coming next week.
pattylaup
6 years agoI deeply regret buying the 36" Miele HR1134 all gas range! It is a LEMON! Yes it cooks great, yes the range top cooks beautifully....However, the tiny vent at the back of the unit throws off enough heat to start a fire in your kitchen. You cannot even touch the wall behind it (mine is brand new Caesarstone and it's now yellowed from the intense heat coming out the back of the range and I've only used the oven a couple of times). I cannot imagine trying the self cleaner which goes up to 750 degrees as my kitchen would likely combust. I was told I have to wipe out my oven EVERY TIME I COOK. That will be fun.
Had the service people here and my only solution is to put up a "splash back" which will cover my lovely Caesarstone and probably do nothing to protect the wall behind the "splash back" and prevent my kitchen from burning up because of the heat. I will also have to run the overhead fan the entire time I'm cooking. I've done all that including sponging off my Caesarstone with cold water while using the oven to keep the quartz from melting. HOW COULD A COMPANY POSSIBLY ENGINEER SUCH A DANGEROUS PRODUCT?? And that, my friends, is what you get for $6,300!!
davidhunternyc
5 years ago"I would rather clean my oven old school and get the one that suits my cooking style . I have a Bertazzoni that i love and i have a catering biz so it gets ude i set a bowl of ammonia in it overnight once a week and wipe out the next morning not so hard."
I have been looking at Bertazzoni ranges. I am skeptical about the analog oven thermometer on the outside. 1) Is it accurate? 2) When it eventually breaks, is the thermometer easily replaceable? - Thanks.
Patricia Colwell Consulting