Fireplace dilemma

7 years ago

Grade II listed, Hertfordshire Home, Part 2 · More Info

We're looking to reinstate a fire in a bedroom in a period house. I was originally looking for something in keeping (which is taking sometime!) but we're now thinking of something contemporary with a frameless fire and a polished plaster chimney breast as per pic. Issue 1, we have quite low picture rails, will this look right if the plaster is taken up to the ceiling as I can only find pics where this has been done with shallow cornicing? I would also prefer a wide fire, would we need structural support as obviously the original opening wouldn't have been so wide? Room pic to follow. This is all subject to listed building consent and a reasonable quote from the plasterer anyway! Thanks

Featured Answer

Luciana

7 years ago

last modified: 7 years ago

Hi Minnie,

A frameless fire sounds like a great idea! I also wanted a 'ribbon fireplace' in our bedroom and, just like you, wasn't sure what to do about the picture rail and cornicing - in the end, I just improvised as we went along and ended up with something else altogether (loong story). However, I can share my experience, hopefully a professional will come along and give you more technical advice :)).

To start with, a simple concrete lintel is enough to provide structural support; our builder bought a precast one and used it to support the weight of the chimney (http://shop.lordsbuildersmerchants.com/category/100x70-prestressed-concrete-lintels/636/). You'd have to consider the flute from the room below, so the width of the opening will depend on how wide that is (in my photo, that would be the 'column' on the right).

I had long discussion with the plasterer about how to deal with the 'squished' alcove in terms of coving, in the end he said he'll just follow the wall...

In order to deal with the picture rail, I decided to have the alcoves painted and keep the chimney breast white (sorry, that doesn't help you much...). Anyway, because of other delays with the renovation, we decided to forget about installing a fireplace and just have the builders finish (and get out! :)) - the end result looks like this, not what I wanted, but I can live with it.

Good luck!

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Comments (40)

minnie101
Original Author
7 years ago
Pic of bedroom before we moved in. We've got a 4 poster floated in the middle of the room
PRO
Douglas Strachan - Chartered Architect Midlothian
7 years ago
Does your room have a chimney breast coming into the room slightly, like your reference image? If so, this change in plane could be a visual cue for a change in treatment you are considering.
minnie101 thanked Douglas Strachan - Chartered Architect Midlothian
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minnie101
Original Author
7 years ago
Yes, it's my room above with a change of decor. In the other "alcove" which you can't see is now a door to an ensuite so there is a visual cue. It's actually quite a deep alcove so still the odd chance of finding the original fireplace intact :)
minnie101
Original Author
7 years ago
Hi Luciana. Thanks for such a detailed response and the link with all the pics, very helpful! I remember you posting your room before, it looks great. How's the business going?
Victoria
7 years ago
Love your inspiration picture, Minnnie.
Sounds achievable to me.
minnie101 thanked Victoria
minnie101
Original Author
7 years ago
Thanks Victoria. Yes I love it. After admiring polished plaster etc for so long and spending time investigating it on and off I've just stumbled across a company that specialise in it in my local town..
Luciana
7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago
You are welcome, although my answer doesn't really answer your query. I also had a look for photos with picture rail 'cutting' an accented chimney breast - and I can't find any!! Your options are to either remove the picture rail on the chimney breast (or even the whole room!) and go all the way to the top with the polish plaster, or keep the rail but have the space above it painted the same colour as the wall in the rest of the room, so the chimney top doesn't look out of place (the pic below has both).
Notting Hill House · More Info

Business is sort of stagnating, thanks for asking. I still can't be bothered to do the promoting and selling, but all my friends and neighbours (plus a few strangers!) got an 'Luciana original' for Christmas, so at least I have space to move around my studio at the moment :))
minnie101 thanked Luciana
Victoria
7 years ago
I don't think you need to continue the picture rail across the chimney breast, you could just end it in the alcoves. I'm not sure the picture rail on the chimney breast would fit with the look you are aiming for.
minnie101 thanked Victoria
minnie101
Original Author
7 years ago
Thanks Luciana for looking! Pics seems hard to find, I thought I'd be able to find one where it had been done with a brick chimney breast but no. I probably want to keep the picture rail in the rest of the room just for consistency throughout the house. That's a shame re the business. I won't ask how strangers ended up with them but you're obviously still enjoying it!
minnie101
Original Author
7 years ago
Thanks Victoria. I think I'll just stick some painted paper up to the ceiling to help visualise. I think it will work with the picture rail left on the remaining walls but the paper trick might help confirm that!
Kerry Donnelly
7 years ago
I think it will look great all the way up, but with the picture rail round the rest of the room.
Do you need the fire for warmth or is it just going to be for the light effect?
minnie101 thanked Kerry Donnelly
Kerry Donnelly
7 years ago
I really like the polished plaster, I thought when I looked at it that it was hot rolled steel
minnie101 thanked Kerry Donnelly
minnie101
Original Author
7 years ago
Hi Kerry. No we don't need it for warmth, if we'd reinstated a reclaimed one we would never have lit it, still haven't braved the dining room one even though I got the chimneys swept :) Yes I've seen similar in hot rolled steel before. Will see what the quote is tomorrow, having read up on how it's done to see If i could DIY it, it won't be cheap!
Kerry Donnelly
7 years ago
It will be, worth it if that's what you want though. I've learned that if I compromise then it ends up costing me twice as I go back to my original idea after doing the alternative.

Can you achieve the same look from a wallpaper maybe? I looked at the frameless fire a while back but like you I didn't need it for heating and couldn't justify it just for the light, think I will keep an eye on this post and make the leap if it turns out well for you lol.
minnie101 thanked Kerry Donnelly
Lauren
7 years ago
It is difficult to find examples but here's a couple I found with brick chimney's:

I love the look of traditional 'bedroom' narrow style cast iron fireplaces but also like the polished plaster and modern fire you posted. I would have thought it would be a lot less work and expense to reinstate a reclaimed fireplace though?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/victorian-bedroom-cast-iron-fireplace-/122306057906?hash=item1c7a0256b2:g:8MYAAOSwImRYIGYr

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Original-Antique-Cast-Iron-All-In-One-Combination-Fireplace/292001230613?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D40760%26meid%3D5a30b824bf054902a13a1da2cd6aa8a4%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D292001224991
minnie101 thanked Lauren
minnie101
Original Author
7 years ago
That's true re compromise! I've only had a quick look but the fires aren't cheap either so I suppose it is a lot of money just for effect! You can get polished plaster wallpaper as I got a few samples for my basement a couple of years ago but the ones I got didn't look as effective in the flesh but they may have moved on a bit now as it's more popular
Lauren
7 years ago
Here's your inspo pic with a picture rail photoshopped in. If you uploaded a pic of your bedroom as it is now I could shop in the new style of fireplace for you to see what you think?
minnie101 thanked Lauren
Kerry Donnelly
7 years ago
Cole and son have a nice one but looks a bit like tiles, not as seamless a look that I'm guessing your after. When I was looking into the fires a few years back they where crazy money, they have went down some but not much. I came across a fake one that just lit up, think a picture that plugs in and looks like a fire, but couldn't find any uk companies that sell them, was all American. Not sure if they are available in the U.K. Now. I'd look at wallpaper and see if they have moved on some, frees up the budget for the fire, you may be surprised with the quote so fingers crossed.
minnie101 thanked Kerry Donnelly
Kerry Donnelly
7 years ago
https://stanningleyfiresides.co.uk/shop/contemporary-electric-fires/dimplex-opti-v-pgf-20-wall-mounted-electric-fire/

Found one in the U.K. But won't give me a price, may be worth looking into though
minnie101 thanked Kerry Donnelly
PRO
Bio Fires
7 years ago
If you're looking for a frameless, long ribbon fireplace integrated into the wall, then a ribbon flame bio ethanol container would be the best product for your project. A bio container allows you to create a stunning line of fire in your own design. They come in all different shapes and sizes, and are suitable for hole in wall fires. You can get some more burner inspiration here:
http://www.biofires.com/11-ribbon-flame-burners

Hope that helps, and good luck!

Contemporary Ribbon Fireplaces in living spaces · More Info
minnie101 thanked Bio Fires
minnie101
Original Author
7 years ago
Thank Lauren, you're a star, thanks for the pics and links! I agree a reclaimed fire would be much cheaper, I was originally going to go for something wider though as the chimney breast is wide. I was just struggling to find one I liked of the right age and style, not helped by not knowing the exact age of the house although it's listed as 1840 and it's Italianate (as you might have guessed now you can see the Venetian Windows!). I hate posting pics as the room is only about 30% complete so if anything looks like it doesn't belong in the room or needs to change it does but I won't bore you with the list :) My photography skills aren't great I'm afraid, I'm struggling to fit the important bits in so you can photoshop! Thanks so much :)
minnie101
Original Author
7 years ago
Great, thanks Kerry for looking. I will give them a ring. I like the idea of being able to have the flames without heat too. Thanks Biofires, I am yet to look at bio ones but will
Kerry Donnelly
7 years ago
I think most of the electric ones will have flames without having the heat on but not sure if it can work out cheaper not having the heater part.

Just to put a spanner in the works, how would you feel about using candles instead of a fire? You don't need the heat and maybe you can get the effect without the price?

To me your room ( I know it's not finished) looks romantic, with the 4 poster bed. I've found a few pictures,
minnie101 thanked Kerry Donnelly
Lauren
7 years ago
Hi Minnie,

I used the front on pic you posted. Have shown it with a similar colour polished plaster to your inspo pic and a lighter one too. Personally I think the first one is too dark and imposing for the space.

I've also added an example with a marble fireplace so you get the effect. I based this off a pretty illustrated example of the sort of fireplace that might have been in the property originally and like the idea of the arch mimicking your gorgeous windows.

http://antiquefireplaceslondon.com/victorian-arched-carrara-marble-fire-surround-52772.html
minnie101 thanked Lauren
minnie101
Original Author
7 years ago
Woah, that is in your face!! Way too tall although it's not helped by the door being white ATM and the wardrobe that needs to depart this room! I do like the look of the fire though and just looking at it on here it looks as if it would work better up to the picture rail... I don't know whether to cancel this guy now although would be interested in rough costs for my ensuite :) Thanks for finding the marble one, the arch would look good, may revert to plan a) although I wanted something a bit edgier for this room for want of a better word so even though we love the wallpaper that too may change.. Thanks so much :)
Lauren
7 years ago
Yeah that was my reaction. I think because you actually have lovely high ceilings you need the picture rail to help bring down the colour.

I've edited the pic's to show the polished plaster only up to the picture rail which does help the proportions.
minnie101 thanked Lauren
Lauren
7 years ago
Or you could just opt for the modern fire with a black metal frame which would make for quite a nice unexpected but luxury feature?
minnie101
Original Author
7 years ago
Lol! Yes up to the ceiling has definitely been ruled out :) I do like it up to the picture rail though, thanks for doing that, although I think you'd be losing the effect in real life. Back to the drawing board!
minnie101
Original Author
7 years ago
That's not a bad option either!
Victoria
7 years ago
I agree, mocked up actually looks much better just to picture rail, too dominant otherwise. Not sure it works with your wallpaper though, think it'd be better with a more neutral backdrop.

Love the wallpaper though for that space.
minnie101 thanked Victoria
PRO
User
7 years ago
Hi Minnie glad that you have been inspired by our image! I thought I'd share how we achieved this. The fire was supplied by Modus. Previously, there was a much shallower chimney breast in the space. We built a deeper, stud chimney breast and simply sat the new chamber inside the stud. We chose not to run the cornice around the stud chimney breast as we wanted it to be a stand out piece that contrasted against the period cornice. We hope the info is helpful, if you wanted any other specific information let us know! CLI
minnie101 thanked User
minnie101
Original Author
7 years ago
Hi Cherie. Yes I love it. I sent the houzz tour it featured on to my husband and he said it would be our dream home! Thanks for the info and the fire details, I didn't even think of a stud chimney! I'm not sure it would work for ours, the room is 17 x 18 but the chimney breast is 51cm already so it's pretty deep. (Once I work out how to remove a couple of test bricks I may be pleasantly surprised and find the fire there as the hearth is still under the carpet!). what are your thoughts on it working in the room? IF the paper stayed the plaster would be greys and antique gold
Kerry Donnelly
7 years ago
How did the quote go? Sorry but I'm nosey lol
minnie101
Original Author
7 years ago
Hi Kerry. I cancelled him first thing yesterday! I must admit I'm curious too but didn't want to waste his time as it didn't work :(
PRO
User
7 years ago
Hi Minnie sorry for the delay in responding. The polished plaster is quite impactful and, being honest, we do think that it tends to work better against neutral backdrops. With the decor that you already have in your room, your original thought of a period fireplace would look great. Will keep our fingers crossed for you that there is a gem hidden behind that wall! Good luck.
minnie101
Original Author
7 years ago
Hi Cherie. Not a problem. I agree re neutral walls. Even though the room is a pretty good size I just think it throws all the proportions out with the ceiling height anyway. Thanks, I do hope there's something there! I must admit I'm scared to open up the fire, I've been told I can make a small opening by the heritage guy to see what's there but the thought of putting my hand in and coming across a dead creature is quite offputting!
PRO
User
7 years ago
Ha, agreed! Perhaps borrow someone else's hand for that initial investigation!
Lauren
7 years ago
Is the chimney breast the same depth downstairs or in the loft? If it's significantly deeper in this room then that would suggest there's something behind it?
minnie101 thanked Lauren
minnie101
Original Author
7 years ago
Good point! It's hard to measure the dining room as there's bookcases either side but from the back of the cabinet it's 45 and the living room is 48 so the bedroom is just slightly deeper.