Engineered glue-down hardwood flooring

3 years ago

I want to have engineered glue-down oak flooring installed on the slab of my high-rise condo. The contractor proposed the standard cork sound reduction layer. Is there something more "State-of-the-Art" that is also low in VOCs and consists of as few steps as possible? I have heard that there are some products that combine sealing/soundproofing and whatever else is needed, all in one (or two) products/steps.

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (9)

SJ McCarthy
3 years ago
The condo board (HOA in the USA) dictates your noise requirements. If you are using engineered hardwood you can look at a floating floor installation (to reduce costs...it's one of the reasons engineered hardwood was invented).

In most of the US, I've found the requirement for noise reduction is 6mm cork (1/4"). In some of the higher priced condos the requirement is more and therefore 12mm (1/2") is required. This gets into all sorts of issues with floor heights (like through doorways, in the foyer, in the kitchen, etc).

Cork is state of the art. Believe it or not, it is pound for pound dollar for dollar the most efficient noise reducer we have. It is the lowest VOC. It is the most economical and ecological of all options in the building world. Yes it is 'old school' but it is also the most viable for 95% of the population.

If you want glue down hardwood in your condo, the cork will have to be glued down first. Then you have to wait for the glue to cure (24-72 hours depending on the product) and then the hardwood has to be glued down to the cork. We call this a 'double stick'. The cost of the glue, for each application = $1/sf. Just to glue down the entire thing you are adding $2/sf onto the job. Labour doubles because the glue is two layers (s/he has to glue down a floor twice).

A floating engineered hardwood doesn't need any of that. The cork sheets are loose laid (no glue...just edge butted to each other) and the hardwood is floated right over top - same day. Cost of materials goes down (no glue = $2/sf savings) and the cost of labour goes down (only lays the floor once). Labour cost to install floating cork underlay = $0.50/sf. That's it.

If you want state of the art, you will have to pay the price for it. You can look at mass-loaded vinyl. But vinyl and wood do NOT play nicely together. You can get some odd odours coming from the glues needed or the two products themselves will have a chemical reaction to each other and cause an odour all by themselves.

You can look at the super thick QuietWalk. The acoustic numbers are very impressive but you need to work with the expensive stuff to get it up to condo standards.

You can look at rubber but you are going to be spending HUGE amounts of money ($3-$4/sf) just for the low-odour product. Then the specialized glues needed to get rubber to stick to concrete AND wood = another $2-$3/sf. And you STILL risk odour coming from the rubber for decades (every time the sun hits the floor the rubber warms up and begins off-gassing faster).

The 6mm cork = $0.80/sf. The 12mm cork = $1.50/sf. That sounds expensive until you compare the TOTAL cost of install (glues, labour, etc).

And remember: the adhesives are the single biggest producer of VOCs in the building industry. As soon as you require a 'glue down' hardwood you are introducing glue into your home. To get away from the glue you simply float the floor. With a thick cork underneath the floating hardwood will feel just as solid as a glue down.

I'm a cork flooring professional btw. I've seen your situation many times. By trying to go 'State of the Art' many homeowners discover the mess they have made for themselves. It is very sad. Personally I would loose lay the cork (over the properly prepared/flattened slab) and then float the hardwood. It is SUPER easy and achieves everything you want....while saving you close to $5/sf.
Marienne Perry
Original Author
3 years ago
Thank you for your input. It is making me reconsider cork but I cannot live with a floating floor. I have never seen one I liked.
Related Discussions
So many questions on engineered wood flooring - now another one
Q
Comments (5)
We have engineered wood (floating over cement floor) throughout the ground floor and love it - it's easy to keep clean and looks fantastic. I've had a few hot oil splashes in the kitchen and it cleans up just fine. My husband fitted it (experienced DIYer) and he says it was easy and straightforward, he followed the same logic - you can rectify a disaster with floating floor, whereas once glued there is no going back. I've also noticed the floor contracting /expanding a tiny bit throughout the year which I'm not sure how would work out if it was glued down. The only thing I'd say is make sure you cement underfloor is as level as possible, and then level it out some more - we didn't bother too much and the floorboards do squeak in one place over a slightly uneven bit. We got the best insulation we found and I'd never noticed it being particularly cold. We are moving next year and having the same floor but with underfloor heating and no radiators - it'd be fabulous! Good luck on your project!
...See More
Engineered wood floor
Q
Comments (3)
Have a look at this - it might help http://www.hoskinghardwood.com/Department/Hardwood-Floors/All-About-Wear-Layers--Engineered-Flooring.aspx?dId=7&pageId=53
...See More
Engineered wood floor soooo bouncy!
Q
Comments (4)
You have to make sure firstly that the floorboards arent' going to move and that they are all in good condition, not moving etc. The problem with floorboards is that they shrink and contract with the heat or cold. Old boards are nailed down, and at the very least i'd screw the boards down so that there was much less movement in them. In my opinion they don't offer the best substrate for an engineered floor. If the engineered flooring is being laid in the same direction as the floorboards underneath, then - ( again in my opinion ), they are likely to be able to move. Obviously if you lay the boards horizontally across the floorboards, then the floorboards are providing a better, more sold base. I would normally lay a layer of Ply over the top of the floorboards and screw it down, then lay the underlay and then the engineered boards. There is no way it can move then!
...See More
Floating and glue down engineered oak flooring - can it work together?
Q
Comments (0)
Hi All - hope everyone's projects are going to plan. I'd be seriously grateful for any advice on (yet again) engineered oak flooring installation since I cant find any threads with my unique problem, aargh! I am about to install an engineered oak floor (14mm thick with 3mm wear layer, 1.9m fixed length and 220mm wide). We are planning to use floating method in kitchen/diner since there is underfloor heating and a concrete subfloor, but glue-down in the hallway and living room off of the hall where we have old floorboards that we have levelled off with chipboard. We will be using underlay in the kitchen/diner. Entering the house, we have an uninterrupted line-of-site from front door to bifolds at back of kitchen/diner and are trying to keep the flow by having same wooden flooring throughout. So my questions I would love any advice on: 1. Has anyone used both methods in the same area? Apart from all the concerns about the level not matching, I'm also wondering about difference in 'ageing' since the floating over underfloor heating might separate at the seams more than the glued-down. Especially since it will not really be 'floating' since all the kitchen units (we have not put kitchen in yet) will pin it down to the subfloor - making separation even worse? Also, will the difference be very obvious walking over one vs the other - I read that floating can sound hollow when walking on it? 2. Any tips on type of glue / adhesive to use? Looking for something with a moisture barrier that is easy to clean. 3. I was advised not to glue T&G together unless floor is floating so if I glue them together on the floating section and not on the glue-down section, will this cause even more problems? Any advice is most appreciated, I'm trying to remain calm but the more I read the more confused I get!! Thanks everyone
...See More
SJ McCarthy
3 years ago
A properly installed floating floor should NEVER feel like it is floating. An improperly installed floating floor will always feel 'wrong'. Guess which is the case 95% of the time? Yep. The improperly installed floor.

That's why you pay the BIG bucks to have the SUBFLOOR dealt with ($2-$4/sf = high-end work). Once the subfloor is 'ready' (you have to do this for glue down as well BTW) your floating floor should have NO issues. No one should be able to tell it is floating.
Marienne Perry
Original Author
3 years ago
Part of my issue is the fact that I want individual flooring planks.
SJ McCarthy
3 years ago
I'm not sure what "individual flooring planks" is. A hardwood floor is individual planks that are glued/nailed/stapled/cleated into place. Gluing can include the edge gluing that a floating floor creates. The vast majority of engineered hardwoods can be floated. The visible appearance of 'individual planks' is not disturbed.

Could you explain what you mean by 'individual flooring planks'?
PRO
Johnson Flooring Co Inc
3 years ago
I'm also a big fan of cork. It's waterproof and the way it's manufactured requires no adhesive to hold the cork crumbs together. Most people are using urethane adhesives today that have no solvents. 1/2" cork is a great product and provides a significant improvement over 1/4" or 6mm.

I understand your objection to floating flooring. Regardless of how good the underlayment is the floor always makes more noise than a securely fastened floor.
Marienne Perry
Original Author
3 years ago
None of the floating floors I have seen have individual planks. I want pieces of wooden flooring that are glued down, one plank at a time.
SJ McCarthy
3 years ago
A floating hardwood has individual planks (just like a glue down engineered floor - in fact they can be the same plank) that are glued at the EDGES. Each plank is separate in the box...but are then glued together to form a continuous floor (looks just like a glue down hardwood floor).

I wonder if you are thinking of laminate flooring which has a photo of wood planks on a large wide plank?
Marienne Perry
Original Author
3 years ago
That must be what I am thinking of, thank you.

Engineered glue-down hardwood flooring

Comments (9)

SJ McCarthy

Marienne Perry
Original Author

Related Discussions

SJ McCarthy

Marienne Perry
Original Author

SJ McCarthy

Johnson Flooring Co Inc

Marienne Perry
Original Author

SJ McCarthy

Marienne Perry
Original Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Engineered glue-down hardwood flooring

Comments (9)

SJ McCarthy

Marienne PerryOriginal Author

Related Discussions

SJ McCarthy

Marienne PerryOriginal Author

SJ McCarthy

Johnson Flooring Co Inc

Marienne PerryOriginal Author

SJ McCarthy

Marienne PerryOriginal Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Marienne Perry
Original Author

Marienne Perry
Original Author

Marienne Perry
Original Author

Marienne Perry
Original Author