Kitchen/Diner layout advice - 1930s Semi

4 years ago

Hi everyone

We've just exchanged on our first house and the reality of the large number of decisions we need to make on the layout of the house is hitting us!

The house is a lovely 1930s art deco semi, but comes with a very small kitchen. We have a young baby and planning to expand the family, so we need to have a practical and liveable solution.

Our budget isn't huge, so we're thinking of swapping the kitchen and dining room uses rather than extend. This is the plan -

1. Remove wall between existing kitchen/dining room

2. Put wall back in between existing dining room/living room to create space for cabinets

3. Block up door from hallway to dining room

4. Open out chimney in the new kitchen space [formerly the dining room] to house sink or oven. Chimney isn't shown on the floor plan, but it's there!

5. Fit kitchen/decorate etc

Do you think this is a sound plan, and does anything glaringly obvious stand out that we should consider?

And our plan once we're set on works is to have 3 builders come take a look and quote. Does this sound like the right way forward?

If anyone has any other ideas or advice please do share - we're new, clueless and sleep deprived(!)

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Comments (8)

Alix W
4 years ago
Hi Suzy, congratulations on your new house - how exciting! I’m not very experienced but I would say your plan sounds like a good one, although more experienced Houzzers may be able to give more advice. A few things that I would think about 1)moving pipes/water can be expensive. A cheaper option may be to do everything you suggest but keep the kitchen where it is? Not sure if that would work for you. 2) if you’re getting rid of the entry into the (current) kitchen, could you fit in a built in cupboard there? Coats/shoes/scooters etc all need storage! 3) I think you will have just enough space for dining in the current kitchen space (most table are 90cm wide and you need 1m each side for chairs, getting in and out etc). But you could think about space saving options like bench seating or a built in banquette along the wall. Have fun!
PRO
The Kitchen Lady UK
4 years ago
I think that sounds like a lovely plan. A more purse friendly version might be to keep the kitchen where it is but still open as close the walls as before.

if you made it an L kitchen under the kitchen window, you would have almost the same sized kitchen! If you wanted to block up the kitchen door, you could then have a tall pantry block.
This is a screenshot of a kitchen I designed for an exhibition of a similar scale that shows small is gorgeous!
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Every family has their own amount of storage requirements - some small some huge - so very much depends on where you fit in beteeen ! Without the extension - if you put the dining in the playroom it would work ? If you only need the dining table occasionally - maybe have a clever table - either pulled up into ceiling when not required then clipped to floor to keep it from moving when in use - or a fold down table - or smaller extendable table etc etc but remember you will need storage for the toys - and a store cupboard for gold up chairs too ! ( this could - in theory - be the same cupboard !)
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Hello and thanks for your prompt reply. The drawings provided show that the support beams are 203mm depth and therefore they will be too big to sit inside the ceiling void. As the weight per linear m is 23Kg as detailed on the drawings it may be worth asking the engineer to reduce the depth and and increase the weight so the beam can be inserted into the ceiling void. I note that there is also a couple of posts in the stud wall and these could be upgraded if necessary. I do not make these suggestions lightly. The main benefit of inserting the beam inside the ceiling is the removal of the shadow cast on the ceiling. The return nibs on either end could be cut back and if needed posts could be fixed direct to the brickwork to provide vertical support. There may need to be a spreader plate welded to the bottom of the post in order to mitigate the point load on the foundation. Obviously this is more of a structural design issue. Is there a good reason for not centring the bifold doors to the external wall? You have so much height on the flat roof why not put a warm deck roof on instead of a cold deck with in cross ventilation? Can I also suggest a warm pitched roof too. You may find Web Dynamics TLX Goldto be a very useful form of insulation as you will only need about 75mm of PIR insulation in between the rafters. I've never been fortunate enough to meet a building control officer willing to accept a heavy duty Catnic lintel over a 4M bifold door. I thought the under stairs might be the position of the meters. I would consider relocating these to an outside wall. Then turn the WC through 90 degrees and design it under the stairs. If I was planning a kitchen diner extension with a beautiful bi-fold door looking out into the rear garden would try and create a direct flow from front of house to the back. I would move the utility room into the middle of the house to provide a direct line of sight from the front door to the rear garden. GD3 would provide access into the utility room. I'd consider moving the door along the living room wall so it could open into the hallway. This would allow a 950mm wide fully glazed door to be placed between the hallway and the kitchen diner. With regard to the position of the new extension wall which is adjacent to your adjoining neighbour I suggest that you look up the party wall act 1996 booklet online here - https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/523010/Party_Wall_etc__Act_1996_-_Explanatory_Booklet.pdf The part that is of interest is "Line of junction - building astride the boundary". If you build across the boundary you should gain at least 150mm of additional internal floor space along the length of the outside wall. Also if in the future your neighbour decides to build an extension they can utilise your wall for if they pay half of the cost of its construction. I'm sure you know that you are responsible for paying all of the costs from all sides relating to the party wall agreement. If the neighbour on the other side is within 3/6m then you will need an agreement with them as well. The architects drawing indicates that the drain is not adopted or shared and therefore you will not require a build over agreement with the water authority. Best wishes Andrew
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Hi, That is very excessive. But currently builders are charging a premium due to the demand I am told by my architect. We are just about to commence our 3m rear extension which involved refurb of the current kitchen and dining as well (the wall between them is already down) but we will be putting in utility room and downstairs bathroom as well in the configuration with full width bifold on a box frame and underfloor heating. The build cost alone for this is about 50K (exc vat) and then we have factored in about 20-25k for finishing including kitchen. And this is in SW London. So my advise is to shop around and ask as many builders. We had quotes as high as 80k just for the build but the average ballpark was about 65.
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I’m not 100% sure I have the dimensions or orientation correct - hopefully I have. I definitely agree with taking out the stud wall between the kitchen & hall. I presume you will replace it but further away from the back wall of the house which will lengthen your kitchen. If you keep your kitchen in its current room I think you could have your run of tall cupboards as proposed in the new kitchen plan but switch the orientation of the island to run in parallel to that wall. Put the hob on the island and you will look towards the dining area as you are cooking. Having the island parallel to the tall cupboards is also a more modern look. If you take out the wall between the kitchen & current dining area too you would have the scope to make that run of cupboards a bit longer too by taking them over to your double-doors. I think you need to make that whole space at the back of the house feel like one large room (kitchen diner) - which could be achieved by including some of the same kitchen units in the dining side. Are you keeping the fireplace if you keep the kitchen in its current space?
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Sonia
4 years ago
Congratulations on your new home! Great plan. My house is 1930s and the kitchen was minuscule! One day we decided to knock down the wall between the tiny kitchen and the living/dining room. Best thing we ever did. We blocked up the wall (apart from the door) creating a kitchen/diner at the back and the living room at the front. I sometimes wonder if we should have left it open plan? That’s a thought.

I think swopping the kitchen and dining room over would be better. Of course it will cost more due to moving all the pipe work, but it would fit better.

Finding a really good builder is the hardest part. You could ask for recommendations from family, friends and neighbours. You could also ask for recommendations on your local Facebook Town Group. There are groups like Trustatrade.com but I’ve not heard good things about such groups. Once you have a list of builders 🙏 you can draw up a list of work you want them to do and get three quotes. The cheapest isn’t always the best though. Wishing you every success.
Nick
4 years ago
Based on the comments above, I think it is worth talking to a kitchen designer first. They might be able to give you a plan that keeps the kitchen more or less where it is, but taking out the wall be tween the dining room and kitchen and closing up the gap between dining room and living room. That would save on the replumbing. Even if you do decide to switch the dining room and kitchen, it makes sense to have the kitchen planned out, so you are sure it is going to suit your needs before you do all the work.
Angie
4 years ago
Congratulations on your new home, exciting times for you. When we bought our current house 5 years ago we had many plans to move walls and reconfigure. We were advised to live in the house for at least six months before starting anything major and that was the best advice. We are so glad we didn’t start straight away. Having lived in the space for a good while we came to see that our original (and exciting) ideas weren’t going to achieve what we’d hoped and we have now changed our thinking completely and love the house. So I’d recommend waiting a while before the chaos of building works, although having said that I’m just recalling a previous house where we did have a wall knocked down almost as soon as we’d moved in, complete with a toddler and baby!
So to answer your question, I think the comments above say it well. Good luck with whatever you decide to do, whenever you do it. Angie
Suzie H
Original Author
4 years ago
Thanks so much everyone, this has given us something to think about! Very much appreciated
PRO
ROOM4STYLE - Inspired Interiors
4 years ago
Here’s one more suggestion for you. I would not close the passage between living and dining room, but possibly put sliding glass doors there, so you can still put cabinets or bookshelves on either side.
I hope you can read my writing, I would open up the space between dining and kitchen, but close both the doors to the hallway and garden. That way you have lost of space for wall units.
I was not clear if there is a door next to the sink? If there is I would close that too, and turn it into a window, of if a door is required there centre it and turn the kitchen into a galley kitchen.
Hope that all make sense?! I provide a planning service in case you do need more help with this. Good luck! Petra
Suzie H
Original Author
4 years ago
Thank you Petra! This is so kind of you, love the idea of the pocket doors. For some reason the floor plan makes it look like there are doors all over the place in the kitchen that don’t exist!
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Kitchen/Diner layout advice - 1930s Semi

Comments (8)

Alix W

The Kitchen Lady UK

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Sonia

Nick

Angie

Suzie H
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Kitchen/Diner layout advice - 1930s Semi

Comments (8)

Alix W

The Kitchen Lady UK

Related Discussions

Sonia

Nick

Angie

Suzie HOriginal Author

ROOM4STYLE - Inspired Interiors

Suzie HOriginal Author

COMPANY

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Suzie H
Original Author

Suzie H
Original Author