Backsplash: 4 inch granite like counter top or tile??

10 years ago

I have a new house under construction. The countertops are a creamy golden granite with lots of movement. The floor is shown in the attached photo ( this was at the tile store not in my house). The cabinets are natural cherry and are shown in the photo below being installed. I can't figure out what to do for a backsplash. The floor is very natural but had lots of cream, golden yellow, terracotta, brown and lots of veins and swirls. The countertop (no photo, sorry) is beautiful and natural art as well. SO, should I just get a 4 inch piece of the granite for a backsplash and paint above that for simplicity or do a tile or something else. Our style is rustic/farmhouse/industrial/art gallery. The house is on 20 acres and is all open plan. We have original art as well as interesting steampunk art ( repurposed antique tools in new functions). The countertops go in on Thursday so if I am going with granite backsplash I should tell them right away so they bring it along. Thanks Houzzers!!!

Featured Answer

groveraxle

10 years ago

Backpainted glass:

My Houzz: Fisher Residence · More Info

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https://www.houzz.com/photos/604-acacia-brandon-architects-patterson-construction-http-wwwbrandonarch-contemporary-kitchen-orange-county-phvw-vp~6191482

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Comments (95)

PRO
User
10 years ago
Carla, The finish (matte or gloss) is not what decides if it needs sealing. If the tile is natural stone, you will need to seal it periodically. If it is porcelain...no maintenance necessary. They can seal your grout at installation to keep it clean. I like to do something special in the feature area between hood/stove top. The picture is of a glass tile feature I used above the cooktop in the kitchen with the 18" tile backsplash. Don't forget that you are not limited to 18" sq tile. Larger sizes can be cut down, example...20" gets re-sized to 18"h x 20" wide. I have not personally used backpainted glass on a job.
Carla NN thanked User
PRO
User
10 years ago
BTW, if you want to do a feature area, you can draw the colors from the granite. Nice way to tie the two together. The colors of the glass here were taken from those in the backsplash tile.
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Ideally you want only 1 bossy / busy fixed element. At the moment you have lots going on with the mosaics and the wall tiles and a mixture of undertones. On the whole granites and marbles also demand to be the centre of attention which is why I would suggest you select a very plain countertop. You'll probably find a few which are well within the granite/marble price bracket. Decide which is the largest visual undertone and use that for the countertop.
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PRO
User
10 years ago
Sorry...this is a glass/stone mosaic tile!
PRO
Creekside Cabinets
10 years ago
Carla you absolutely do not have to paint or install cabinets before flooring. If your installers know what they are doing they will shim the cabinets up to compensate for the height of your future floor. You can actually save quite a bit of money by not putting the flooring under the cabinets. If you install the cabinets before flooring and do not raise the cabinets you may have issues with under counter appliances, like dishwashers. There is not a lot of clearance with some models and it can make it hard or impossible to get the appliance out to replace or repair. I painted my walls when I remodeled my own home so I painted a coat of primer and one coat of top coat prior to installing the cabinets. However, most good painters are more than capable of painting after cabinet install. I personally hate to trim and put up all that tape! I realize you are not doing the 4" backsplash but I disagree with others that this makes it look like a "track" home. I personally prefer a simple tile backsplash that does not take away from the granite, especially one with movement and color. We've used a basic travertine as others have suggested as well as subway tile. With either option you could use a strip of glass tile as an accent. I also agree with other to keep the pattern simple. Good luck with your kitchen!
Carla NN thanked Creekside Cabinets
robin_o
10 years ago
Carla, in my earlier comment, I'd mentioned that I'd used back-painted glass. I neglected to talk about the ease of maintenance, but decided to do so now. I've been totally pleased with the ease of non-reflective glass. I have a very bright, mult-window and skylit kitchen so I've been very surprised that I only need to wipe the glass on rare occasions, and that's only because I can see some water marks above the sink when I look at the backsplash very carefully at certain angles in the brightest light.
Tile would be easy maintenance too, but for me, even the plainest, largest, tiles (even with matching grout) would have been less desirable than one continuous surface from counter to the cabinets above.
User
10 years ago
I like to get my information directly from the manufacturer. Click on the manuals & warranty tab.

http://www.kitchenaid.com/shop/major-appliances-1/ranges-2/ranges-3/-[KDRS467VSS]-402106/KDRS467VSS/

Other misconceptions;
The hood is not required, just recommended.

M1503.4 Makeup air required.
Exhaust hood systems capable of exhausting in excess of 400 cubic feet per minute (0.19 m3/s) shall be provided with makeup air at a rate approximately equal to the exhaust air rate. Such makeup air systems shall be equipped with a means of closure and shall be automatically controlled to start and operate simultaneously with the exhaust system.

http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/irc/2012/icod_irc_2012_15_sec003.htm

I will get to the explaination as soon as I can.
Beth Jackson
10 years ago
I would say go with tile but look into this really cool item called Kitchen Palette by Web Don -- what you can do is change the way the tile looks above your stove top area. Its like an interchangeable tile backsplash. We have it and love the look of it. Read about here it: http://www.web-don.com/our-products/kitchen-accessories/kitchen-palette/
Carla NN thanked Beth Jackson
PRO
woodtech custom cabinets
10 years ago
I agree that the walls should have been painted first .... Why would you want to risk painting around new cabinetry ? It's way faster to do before and small marks can be touched up after .
PRO
Robin Lechner Designs
10 years ago
Go for a glass tile backsplash! It's more expensive, but afterall, you're creating a new kitchen, and you might as well do the entire room right! Check out horizontal shapes that have similar colors to your counter tops. Good luck!
Carla NN thanked Robin Lechner Designs
PRO
Exceed Floor & Home
10 years ago
4" to a full granite backsplash always appears to me like someone was in a hurry, doesn't care, or lazy to finish the project. A good tile backsplash design is the bow that ties all the elements of the kitchen together.
Carla NN thanked Exceed Floor & Home
Carla NN
Original Author
10 years ago
Snow = no countertops today.
Carla NN
Original Author
10 years ago
last modified: 10 years ago
Counter tops of Colonial Cream granite are installed. I have a detail of the granite, a detail of the stone floor with a roughly 14x20 cutting board made of the granite sitting on it, and a small section of the custom cherry cabinets with the counter top and floor all in one photo. The stone floor is really dirty with sawdust so the colors are muted in that shot but look better in the close up. I will shop for some tile samples early this week and post. Thanks for looking!
Carla NN
Original Author
10 years ago
With all the natural beauty of the thick stone floor, the granite and the cherry, I am leaning toward a simple look of natural travertine instead of anything shiny or urban like glass tiles. The back painted glass would limit me to that paint color forever. I would like galvanized metal sheets but the hubby is less artsy and more conservative. I really value all of your thoughts so if you think I'm wrong I'm glad to listen.
PRO
Michele Engrav Construction
10 years ago
last modified: 10 years ago
I would now lean toward a bronze metal or non- tumbled travertine with a bronze glass strip. Keeping the grout lines to 1/8 of an inch.
Carla NN thanked Michele Engrav Construction
PRO
Michele Engrav Construction
10 years ago
You could always do an accented frame below the range hood and keep the rest of the backsplash simple
Carla NN thanked Michele Engrav Construction
User
10 years ago
Carla. I just found your discussion thread. Your kitchen is going to be gorgeous. I too have this same granite. Mine has a waterfall edge treatment. My cabinet color is similar to yours also. But I did a different color cabinet for my island. I'm still not sure what I want for a backsplash but I am definitely putting one up, sine I lived without one for 12 years. Good luck!
Carla NN thanked User
saratogaswizzlestick
10 years ago
I really love the choices you gave made so far, this is going to be one gorgeous kitchen. I would definitely look into Fred's concern. I used the same granite right up to the base of my cabinets and I am very happy with the look and that would take care of the combustable concern should that be an issue you need to address.
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leelee
10 years ago
No, not a 4 inch backsplash of any type. Either go with a tile BS all the way under the cabinets or none at all.

From what I can see you'd be better with no BS because you have many starts and stops with no clear place to put the backsplash or have it end gracefully.

A backsplash isn't always the right thing to do. If you do decide to use a BS don't over do witha lot of medalions and inlays. Keep it simple
saratogaswizzlestick
10 years ago
Leelee where are the starts and stops? Looks straightforward to me. The only area not straight up to cabinets will be straight up to hood.
Carla NN thanked saratogaswizzlestick
User
10 years ago
Now, that is a lot of BS ;) lol , just kidding
Carla NN thanked User
saratogaswizzlestick
10 years ago
Funny Fred. Did you find out if they need a non combustable surface?
Carla NN thanked saratogaswizzlestick
User
10 years ago
It isn't a non combustible "surface" that is needed, but a non combustible "wall". Yes, according to the manufacturer specifications, they need either a non combustible wall or use the optional backguard/ heat shield. Basically, if they cut the sheetrock out above the stove, 6" past on each side, and cut the studs out to make a "window" then the combustibles will be gone. Then frame it in with steel studs and cover it with cement tile backer board. The sheetrock on the other side of the wall should be able to stay with this clearance with minor touch-up of screw holes. Just putting tile on a wall is not sufficient.
saratogaswizzlestick
10 years ago
What about putting up a granite slab? That should act as a heat shield.
Carla NN
Original Author
10 years ago
I really appreciate Fred's input on the wall safety. I would like to know what the rest if you have behind your ranges if you know. What did your builders have to say about it? Mine is clearly not concerned and I have to decide if I want to make a fight about it.
saratogaswizzlestick
10 years ago
last modified: 10 years ago
I have a granite slab. Did your builder have the specs for your range? Are you getting a restaurant range as they have different requirements than a regular range?
PRO
Icon Building Group
10 years ago
best service ever!! and the best selection in the chicago area burbs
Carla NN
Original Author
10 years ago
last modified: 10 years ago
Satatoga, he has them. It is not a restaurant range just a 6 burner kitchen aid.
saratogaswizzlestick
10 years ago
I think a granite slab would take care of this issue as the heat would not transfer through. If you decide on tile I would be a hard as* on this and insist that he adheres to the specs. If your house burns down and the insurance finds out that your range is improperly installed they could refuse coverage. I use to be in real estate and you would be surprised by how many scorched walls you see over ranges. The easiest way to address it however would be a heat shield. I would just check with the inspector as to what materials are approved. (I was the GC for my house). I do know my inspector asked to see the spec on my range before he signed off on closing the walls up with drywall. I wonder if stainless would be adequate? I hope you get more feedback from pros and people like Frank who have more knowledge than I do on this.
Carla NN thanked saratogaswizzlestick
User
10 years ago
What most builders don't seem to get is that it is very STOVE SPECIFIC. Left brain thinkers seem to think that if one gas burner doesn't need it, then non of them should because that is the way they have always done it. But, these high powered ranges haven't always been around or popular. Go to the building department with a copy of the pertinent pages, and see what they consider to be a non combustible wall. Also, take ALL the code reference numbers I have provided and have them explain how they relate to this project. That range is probably capable of putting out more BTU than the furnace that heats the whole house.
Carla NN thanked User
User
10 years ago
By the code book, even a 3/4 inch slab of granite is not enough because, if the stove were to run long enough and hot enough.....the heat just keeps building. It is a code based on long term consequences and a lot of testing. An actual air gap is necessary between the heat shield and the combustible materials whether it is the paper on the sheetrock or the wood stud right behind it. The air gap needs air circulation to work. By the code, this means a 1" space open on top and bottom. That is exactly what the backsplash that is made to attach to the unit does. The other thing the unit comes with is called an "island trim" for a reason. It is not meant to be used up against a wall.
saratogaswizzlestick
10 years ago
Bummer, I was hoping the granite would be adequate. It looks like a visit to your building department is in order.
User
10 years ago
Think of it like this; When was the last time that simply putting a thick cast iron pan between the flame and the food kept you from burning it? You need to stir it to keep it from burning. Or use a steamer basket with an air gap between it and the pan. Or use a double boiler........ You can't stir the wall behind the tile. If you buy such a big stove, you need to install it according to what it CAN do, not just how a rational person would use it. It is too easy to have someone impatient come along and crank up the back burner with the large stock pot full of water because it is not boiling fast enough. You may not even notice the flame creeping around the pot and up the wall because you have pots and pans on all the other burners and Thanksgiving dinner is an hour late. Put a piece of paper in a pan and see if it starts burning before a large pot of water boils.
Carla NN thanked User
Carla NN
Original Author
10 years ago
Here is a post on another thread that shows that some architects are clueless about fireproofing too. "PRO
(name deleted) Architecture
The tile backsplash was installed directly to the drywall surface. Ceramic tile acts as a fireproof material since it is non combustable.
2 hours ago Like
PRO
Brickwood Builders, Inc.
10 years ago
It is wise to be careful about interpreting what someone else is saying and also in interpreting what has been said here. I don't know what the technical discussion is in the other thread, you can post a link.

There is NO building code requirement for a backsplash that says the cooktop should be 6" from the backsplash or what material the backsplash must be made from (combustible vs non-combustible). The building code simply says that you must comply with the manufacturers specifications and installation instructions. As someone else here noted, some manufacturers only require a 2.5" clearance from the back wall and do not require a stainless steel back guard or that the backsplash be any particular material (i.e., non-combustible materials). We are getting ready to install a Wolf gas cooktop and they only require a 2.5" clearance from the back wall. They also do not require any particular backsplash material - we are installing a tile backsplash and it IS in compliance with code and it will properly pass inspection. The manufacturer's instructions in your case are different and therefore you have more issues to deal with - and some choices that you need to make in order to comply.

There is a Mechanical Code Section 304 that requires that appliances (which includes a broad spectrum of equipment not just kitchen appliances - hvac systems, fireplaces, boilers, water heaters, etc.) be installed in accordance with the manufacturer's installation instructions and the mechanical code. Installation instructions are required to be on site. The Mechanical Code does not say how far from the back wall a cooktop or range has to be. It says to comply with the manufacturer's instructions. In your case, Kitchenaid requires a 6" offset from the back wall. If you cannot set the cooktop/range 6" from the back wall and you want to "REDUCE" that required clearance to something less than 6", then the specifications that Fred S. has given are what apply. The section regarding the REDUCTION IN CLEARANCE (Section 308 of Mechanical Code) is where the topic of combustible vs non-combustible materials shows up. If you can keep the cooking surface 6" away from the back wall, none of this applies.

One has to know the specific circumstances and the specific products in order to apply the code to a particular situation. Some of the pictures you see on Houzz comply with code, others do not. You can't always tell from the picture.
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PRO
Michele Engrav Construction
10 years ago
In addition to the comment above, each city has different code requirements. It's always best to go with manufacturers' specs
Carla NN thanked Michele Engrav Construction
Denise Tuminaro
10 years ago
I could not have said it better Deborah. As I we were remodeling our whole house we put all appliance installation specs up in the areas they were to be installed and made sure that all trades that worked in those areas followed the specs exactly. It is a buyer beware situation that you need to educate yourself and hold those accountable in doing what is right for your home, you are paying for this service. As I would love to trust that they would do the right thing for me and my family, I need to be sure and check the work (also my job as the general of our project).

As for my stove installation, as I stated earlier, we followed all the guidelines to assure it was done correctly.

Now learning to cook with such a powerful range is another course in itself :)
Carla NN thanked Denise Tuminaro
User
10 years ago
last modified: 10 years ago
Exactly, Deborah. I have a hard time even wanting to get into this subject on Houzz because it can sound so complicated :) Tile provides a "cosmetic" fire protection from a small grease fire or if one likes to flambe' but isn't coordinated :) Sheetrock, in other parts of the house, give a wall a 1 house fire rating. As from the garage to the house. But an appliance that gives off heat and can be left on for hours, even if it is just because you fell asleep waiting for the water to boil, is a different matter with different needs to be met.
You might look at a WOLF next to Kitchen Aid and not see the difference, but somebody did the testing based on standards that were written by UL and all the major manufacturers in the industry. These tests have shown that the BTU output is high enough and close enough to the back of the stove to cause damage over a long period of time. I do not second guess these findings, or argue with the installation instructions. I am very familiar with code wording, and any time the word "fire" comes up, it is important to know exactly how it is being used. "fireproof" and "fire rated" are different. Material around a fireplace opening need to be "fireproof". The walls around a fireplace cannot touch the brick and maintain a certain clearance, but have no fire rating of any kind. Yet sheetrock gives a "wall assembly" a "fire rating". Sheetrock is also used to protect steel columns and beams from major fires. I think this might be where the confusion starts coming in...........but it just isn't the same thing. And a non-combustible "wall" is not the same as a non-combustible "surface"
Carla NN thanked User
User
10 years ago
@ Michele Engrav, even though different cities might have different minimum or "default procedures" , have you ever seen a code that doesn't also add "install according to the products listing and labeling and manufacturer's specifications?
User
10 years ago
Don't forget that the "optional stainless steel backguard" which provides the required air gap behind it is still an option. And the big reason this subject doesn't come up that often.
Carla NN thanked User
Carla NN
Original Author
10 years ago
I am going to price that, it's probably $800.... Gag... Retch...
PRO
Connie Elaine's Draperies
10 years ago
Carla, you only cry once if you get what you love and need the first time around.
Carla NN thanked Connie Elaine's Draperies
Judy Bumbles
10 years ago
last modified: 10 years ago
No to the 4" granite splash back. You can do much better then that! What about a subway tile. They are timeless. Keep your splash back plain and simple and then it will be beautiful.
saratogaswizzlestick
10 years ago
last modified: 10 years ago
I don't think Carla was considering a 4 inch backsplash. If she chooses granite it would run straight up to the bottom of the cabinets bumbles12. $800 is a lot but that would be better than ripping the wall out out that is cold consolation. On a positive note your looks stunning and very well laid out.
Carla NN
Original Author
10 years ago
I am ashamed to admit I was considering 4 inch granite and paint in the begining just because I wanted something that would not compete with the other natural stones. But all the great advice here made me discard that option very early. I went to look at tiles today and did not find much to be thrilled about. I am going to have to take that 50LB "cutting" board of granite and a drawer from the cabinets to the tile place just to get in the ball park of what to choose. My contractor likes to get the tile from one place but if I do not succeed there I will go out on my own.
Carla NN
Original Author
10 years ago
last modified: 10 years ago
Oh Saratoga, I did price the metal back guard and it was under $300 but so unfortunate looking. I went to Cline (a subsidiary or something of Ferguson), the company that sells the appliances to my builder, and they said that this range can go up against the wall as long as there is tile. I said but, but, but... and they said they checked and that tile is enough. I feel like a kid who has seen aliens and no one will believe me. They all think that I am being paranoid.
saratogaswizzlestick
10 years ago
That is a good looking range. I am a by the book kind of girl and I would probably call Kitchen Aid and not trust an appliance store who wants to keep on your builder's good side. Have you considered a full granite backsplash instead of tile? If you prefer tile I would keep it simple so ad to not compete with your beautiful granite.
User
10 years ago
last modified: 10 years ago
Let's take a look at Wolf so I don't just pick on one brand.

Looking at the Wolf Design Guide, there are 5 categories of gas cooktops.
http://m.subzero-wolf.com/oven/dual-fuel/30-inch-dual-fuel-range/specifications-downloads

The standard Gas Cooktops require 2.5" clearance to the back wall, and 30" to an unprotected cabinet directly above the cooktop. They have one 12,000 BTU burner at the back of the cooktop and the others are 9,200 BTU.

The Integrated Modules are about the same for clearances.

Dual Fuel Ranges
ALL back burner are 15,000 BTU

IMPORTANT NOTE: When installing against a combustible surface, a minimum 10" (254) riser is required for a 36" (914) dual fuel range with charbroiler or griddle and all 48" (1219) and 60" (1524) models

Without ventilation hood, 36" (914) minimum clearance countertop to combustible materials, 44" (118) for charbroiler

NOTE: Shaded area above countertop indicates minimum clearance to combustible surfaces,combustible materials cannot be located within this area.
For island installation, 12" (305) minimum clearance back of range to combustible rear wall above countertop is required.

HERE IS THE TRICKY PART.... If you read that and wonder why an island would have a back wall, then you are reading it wrong. They are talking about a range with no back heat shield. NOTE; They now slipped in the term "combustible rear WALL"
I suspect they do this so it sounds like what you want to hear, but satisfies UL and the litigious community.
Ask yourself why the BTU output would go up, and all other clearances go up, but the back wall clearance would go down. It never says that when installing against a combustible surface, just add tile. The WHOLE assembly, in this case, is considered the surface, not just the outer layer of the surface. At least this is how the testing agencies see it. You only create a new surface if there is a 1" gap between them. Otherwise, it is just "painting over" the original surface.
Now, keep in mind that your Kitchen Aid range has 20,000 BTU BURNERS and a total cooktop output of 90,000 BTUs.

Gas range
ALL the back burner are 15,000 BTU.

When installing against a combustible surface, a minimum 20" (508) riser is required.

Without ventilation hood, 42" (1067) minimum clearance countertop to combustible materials, charbroiler and GR488 require non-combustible materials.

NOTE: Shaded area above countertop indicates minimum clearance to combustible surfaces,combustible materials cannot be located within this area.
For island installation, 12" (305) minimum clearance back of range to combustible rear wall above countertop is required.

Sealed burner rangetop
When installing against a combustible surface, a minimum 5" (127) riser is required for model SRT366, and a minimum 10" (254) riser is required for 36" and 48" sealed burner rangetops with a charbroiler or griddle.

If the rangetop is to be installed without ventilation, a 36" (914) minimum clearance, 44" (1118) for charbroiler, from countertop to combustible materials above the rangetop is required.

NOTE: For island installations, 12" (305) minimum clearance from back of range to combustible rear wall above countertop.

The wolf gas cooktop and integrated module are the only ones that allow a 2.5" and 2" clearance respectively to combustible walls.
Carla NN thanked User
PRO
Fuzed3d
10 years ago
Check out some of our resin countertop designs. Much like granite at a more affordable price. Any design you can think of www.fuzed3d.com
PRO
User
8 years ago
They also do not require any particular backsplash material - we are installing a tile backsplash and it IS in compliance with code and it will properly pass inspection. The manufacturer's instructions in your case are different and therefore you have more issues to deal with - and some choices that you need to make in order to comply.
Angel 18432
8 years ago
Ovch - good idea to check dates before posting.