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Design Dilemma
colourwisedesign

Kitchen or dining area at the garden end of open plan room?

CWD
6 years ago

We are knocking through from dining into kitchen. The space shall be approx 27 ft long and not super wide (9 ft when you first enter, opening up to almost 11 ft at the far end). The garden starts at the 11ft wide part. I could put kitchen in the first bit as you enter, but then it will become a corridor to walk through to get to dining table. Or we can put dining table there and everyone has to walk past it to get to kitchen. The garden end will have more light and views out to the garden, but the view will be seen from the whole room as the garden is at the end of it. What do you prefer though - dining area with the best light and views? Or kitchen further from the house and with the best light and views? With the kitchen at the widest part I think we can have cabinets on one wall and then a 36" deep island with counter height stools, so we'd have two seating areas, which is another plus for that choice.

Featured Answer
  • A B
    6 years ago

    The million dollar question! I think it depends entirely on how you live your life and what time of day/how long you are in each space. For our next project we have a dark inner room opening out onto a light space overlooking the garden. After a lot of thought, I have decided to have the kitchen with the views, and an atmospheric dining room. I spend a lot of my time in the kitchen though, and there will also be an island we can eat at.

    Comments (30)

    • Claire Nicholson
      6 years ago
      I think Jen P makes a great point about it being personal choice!

      If it were me and my choice, I would pop the kitchen at the garden end with the light and views and greater width and would likely put dining area with some banquette seating in the end closer to the rest of the house.

      If you pop a banquette seat against the long wall in the dining end, you would need no more than 1.7m (with a 1m wide table) when the chairs are tucked under on the opposite side, which would leave enough space to walk past comfortably. Allowing 1m for a person sat on a seat pulled out you'd still be just under your 9ft in width.

      I think if you have to walk past the dining area to get to the kitchen the whole room will get used, whereas if you do it the other way round is there a good chance the far end of the room will only get used occasionally for formal dinners?!?

      Best wishes,

      Claire
      CWD thanked Claire Nicholson

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    • CWD
      Original Author
      6 years ago

      Thanks, seems like kitchen at the far end is the way to go. If the dining is at far end, then we will use the dining table every day for every meal as we'd have no other option. But if I put the kitchen down there then there's space for a narrow island with seating too, so gives two seating areas - plus extra worktop space and storage in the island.

    • CWD
      Original Author
      6 years ago

      These are two options I am considering...

    • Claire Nicholson
      6 years ago

      Have you mapped out the sizes to scale?

      I think you're going to be pretty tight on either side of your island. Maybe my calculations are a little out but with a 90cm island you're only going to have about 92cm either side.

      best wishes,

      Claire

    • CWD
      Original Author
      6 years ago

      Thanks for looking at it in detail Claire. Yes, I know, it's not huge is it? Each little square is a foot (sorry, still imperial, been living in the US for the last 7 years) - so its 3ft from cabinets to island, a 3ft island and then 3ft behind the island for access. Ideally I'd have 42" on either side of island, but it's a choice of less access space or less island and anything less than 3ft as an island seems a bit pointless.

      Other alternative is to not have an island and have cabinets on two walls - but it's too wide to be a galley kitchen really and I'd rather not feel hemmed in with cabinets.

      I am hoping to build the island on casters so that it can be moved around to suit different times - shove it over to the wall when we have parties and want access through the glass doors to the garden, for example.

      Open to all ideas though!

    • A B
      6 years ago

      Get a kitchen designer/concept planner involved now, before windows and doors are decided. I agree that design will be too tight, but it's a big space so there are loads of options

    • Claire Nicholson
      6 years ago
      I have to say, I think it would probably be too tight. With only 90cm behind the island that's hardly enough space for a larger adult to pull a stool out and sit on it without it banging up against the wall. I think it might feel quite cramped.

      You would also have very little space on the cooking side if you had drawers or cupboards etc open.

      I don't think you'd need to go for a galley kitchen and I think as Jen said, it's a lovely big space, you just need a fresh perspective and some input from a professional on how to make the most of the space.

      Have you considered a concept planner? Super happy to make a few suggestions but I'm certainly no professional :)
      CWD thanked Claire Nicholson
    • PRO
      BetterSpace: The Floor Plan Experts
      6 years ago

      You should defiantly put the kitchen at the back. The front part is a walk way, it can host a dining table as its not in use most of the day but you cannot have a walk way through a kitchen.

      Your sketch with an island looks OK although its a bit narrow. you should leave 100 cm min between the island and kitchen counter and have a narrow island of 80-90 cm.

      It looks like one door to the garden opens inside, can this be changed to open outside? What about the other opening? are these doors or windows? If you can get a long island, at least 250cm then you can have the far end of the island as a table with seating on both sides, this way you can even have it 70cm wide.

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      CWD thanked BetterSpace: The Floor Plan Experts
    • Jonathan
      6 years ago
      I agree with putting the kitchen at the back. I also agree that you need to get a designer on board as space is tight- in my opinion too tight for a dresser at the dining end and too tight for an island and I think that you need to plan the laundry facilities in the room too as the space you have allocated in the garage doesn't look big enough either.
      CWD thanked Jonathan
    • Jonathan
      6 years ago
      Alternate layout
      CWD thanked Jonathan
    • CWD
      Original Author
      6 years ago

      Builder is sending round their kitchen planner next week to take a look, just trying to come up with ideas by myself at this point as it's me who has to live with it and I do love to analyse every possible idea before making a decision. Have just shown two ideas, have already discounted several others!

      The dresser is original and built-in to the house and I really want it to stay as it's so lovely (and practical) - keeping the dining area closest to the house I will definitely be keeping the dresser where it is - and the door will be staying where it is too, which means you are walking almost straight into the dining table, but will keep it as close to the window as possible for everyday use.

      Most of the windows shown are the original windows, but we know we want to expand at the far end and install glass doors to open it up to garden. The side door opens inwards at the moment, but we might board it up to gain extra wall space. Once we have the kitchen floor plan then we will reconfigure the windows to suit the space.

      Really hoping we can get washing machine (and extra storage) into a bootroom/laundryroom in a future new attached garage, so will probably just stick the washer in the corner of the dining room for now until we get around to the garage. If I felt like there was an obvious space in the kitchen then I'm ok with it there, but at the moment it feels like there's no space given that I want minimal cabinets in the room.

      Thanks for the ideas folks though, keep them coming if anyone has any other ideas..

    • twamleyk
      6 years ago

      Hi, My personal experience is that people get pulled towards the light and the views. Also, I love to eat while looking outside at the garden. Both of these reasons would make me go for the table at the far end looking out to the garden. When you are inthe kitchen part, you are mostly cooking, preparing, washing up etc. When I sit down for a cup of tea or to eat, I like to look outside and feel the morning light on my face.

      My own kitchen-dining space is the kitchen and eating space on the house side, and a sofa on the garden side (and then we have a seperate formal dining room). Even just being a couple of metres from the garden, sometimes I just want to lift my plate and sit on the sofa by the window. I never 'miss' the garden when I am in the kitchen cooking though (anyhow, of course I can see it across the room).

      I would just take some time to think what you like to do. I am quite a 'sit and stare' type person.


      Good luck!

      CWD thanked twamleyk
    • CWD
      Original Author
      6 years ago

      This is the old dining room (now knocked through so that back wall is open to the kitchen behind). It was a lovely room and the window is big and looks onto side garden. So even with dining table here it's still light enough, I think. But I agree and am the same - could easily sit at table at the garden end and just look out at the garden. I can imagine it both ways, different pros and cons, which is why it's so difficult.

    • CWD
      Original Author
      6 years ago

      @Jonathan - what software are you using for your layout ideas? If it's free I'd like to try it. Am getting a bit fed up drawing on squared paper.

    • minnie101
      6 years ago

      Jonathan's last idea with the peninsular would allow 2 bar stools for looking out at the garden? I might go for a comfy banquette seat against the wall in the dining room which means you can still sit and look out of the window you've just pictured? You can also opt for comfy bar stools

      CWD thanked minnie101
    • CWD
      Original Author
      6 years ago

      Thanks minnie101 - we already own four lovely counter-height stools which is one of the reasons I am trying to squeeze in an island. A peninsula would at least use a couple though. And we just bought 8 Eames chairs for our old house, so am reluctant to build banquette seating as then I'll have too many chairs that I don't want to get rid of - I already have other spare chairs in other rooms. There might not be a perfect solution that suits all the parameters that are being imposed on the requirements!

    • minnie101
      6 years ago

      There are a few requirements :) unusual layout but what if (where Jonathan put the new doors so you lose the window) you put FF one end with pantry the other end and the oven in the middle (assume it's freestanding). You then have a Long Island with a sink at the end in front of the oven. Opposite to the sink end you can have 2 bar stools. I think I've seen a pro do a 4ft wide island in an 11ft wide kitchen. You can then have doors on the left opening into the garden? Not sure if that would work for you and hope it makes sense?!

      CWD thanked minnie101
    • CWD
      Original Author
      6 years ago

      Yes, minnie101! That's what I am looking for - some totally different ideas which might actually work. I'd still want a decent window on the oven wall - maybe two windows either side of cooker hood? Back to the drawing board...

    • CWD
      Original Author
      6 years ago

      What about this? Big picture window above sink to get long garden views. Island has big enough overhang so that stools can be tucked completely under and out of way offside door opening (or we could just block up that door).

    • CWD
      Original Author
      6 years ago

      Have already switched Dishwasher over to the left of the sink, rather than the right, so that the area behind the hob doesn't get clogged up with people.

    • minnie101
      6 years ago

      I'm obviously not a pro but with the DW swapped I can't see why this wouldn't work. Would you go for a 3x6ft peninsular with a 1ft overhang all the way round? You could have shallower cabinets on the seating side for anything that doesn't get used frequently just to give you a bit more storage although I guess the dresser probably holds a lot? Perhaps opt for drawers oven side

      CWD thanked minnie101
    • PRO
      Amber Jeavons Ltd
      6 years ago
      last modified: 6 years ago

      Hello colourwise design,

      What about looking for a way to integrate cooking and dining in one with a more central configuration if possible such as the cantilever kitchen that morphs into dining. Such as the below. This one here has sink and cooking elements and storage with a clear dining section..

      This one is slightly more minimal as theres so solid units but you might be able to incorporate the two ideas. Perhaps think of open shelving so you can access from either side so to speak.. You could even have two central zones spit into task oriented divisions. So one end is cooking and washing up sink and possibly washing machine, dishwasher. Hob with pan drawers accessible from either side.. Central overhead extraction or downdraft for example.

      Then another section starts for eating, storage etc. Might be worth looking at a more unusual way of situating along the idea of the length of the room and the orientation for dining toward the garden end.

      Maybe have something more solid if you prefer and then have a dining table that floats thus introducing the idea of a more spatially free room...

      Perhaps rather than a dresser consider the idea of using the height available with open shelving that starts roughly at eye level or incorporate this into the dining end. In this way you give the room the appearance of being bigger. Even a lower floating set of units can look streamlined and open the floor as they're not sitting directly at ground level...

      Tall larder and FF could stay in the same place as per your original drawing.

      Some ideas you might not have thought of. :))

      CWD thanked Amber Jeavons Ltd
    • CWD
      Original Author
      6 years ago

      Thanks AJ, but I think we'd need a bigger room to really make that look amazing - am not a big fan of really long narrow islands as they just become an obstacle to navigate around - fine in a huge space, but not so great in my house. Also, the dresser is original to the house and I want to keep it as it is gorgeous, practical and adds character. Am actually leaning more towards trying to stop it being such a corridor/tunnel of a room by having the peninsula island across it, at the expense of having the bifold doors opening onto the long garden view.

    • PRO
      Amber Jeavons Ltd
      6 years ago
      last modified: 6 years ago

      Hello colourwise,

      It's why I suggested having them split. A central configuration negates the need for wall fitted units and island which then frees up the space far more, as you have just one central design. I'm sure you'll find the right thing to your liking.

      I'd always want an open end toward garden end so you don't interfere with the doors at that end. Also you could keep the cantilever or solid unit design and flooring similar in terms of colours to compliment and blend. In this way the eye is directed toward the garden and kitchen overall with a less solid appearance. The decor elsewhere could be more contrasting.

      My images just happen to be concrete but the principle design idea can be adapted to suit the chosen materials. Re the dresser, maybe it could still work as you technically have more space either side with my idea. Enjoy the process :))

      CWD thanked Amber Jeavons Ltd
    • Jonathan
      6 years ago
      This is an app on my phone and I notice that there are lots of free ones available
      CWD thanked Jonathan
    • CWD
      Original Author
      6 years ago

      Which app is it? What do you think of the design you just drew? Thank you for that!

    • PRO
      Amber Jeavons Ltd
      6 years ago
      last modified: 6 years ago

      Hello Colourwise Design,

      Thought I would give you a visual of what I had meant. I have used Jonathan's drawing as I use sketchup personally for spatial drawings in 3D. However this means you get to see the same kind of view though with his design and scale. Also offers me the chance to show you how the materials can effect the overall appearance as I have deliberately chosen a material colour to blend with the flooring (or as close to so you can see what is solid) which can be done in a myriad of ways so things appear less solid and thus give a more open room configuration ... Have copied Jonathan's chairs which I have slid under a little more.

      So you have flow and a very simple configuration which does not hinder the exit to the garden which I think you will want to retain personally. So it could be that the first section houses sink, dishwasher. FF could be in left corner where room opens out? Hob could be at dining end. So cook and serve idea.

      This also allows for the additional room where the area widens. You still have flow between task oriented routes ie sink to ff and ff to hob etc. Making use of height with a single width double ff and perhaps considering a wall oven and some wall hung cupboards on that wall to the right of the image.

      The dresser might be able to situate to the right of the window on the left of the image. Down draft on hob or overhead extraction and ceiling hung pans or a section underneath hob for pans etc.. So this idea could either be solid with build in cupboards which I would propose have sliding doors or at dining end taper off into a table top.. Its a quick rework to show you what I had envisioned as I saw it. Re the door in to kitchen, perhaps consider a door that is sliding for example a pocket door. : ))

      CWD thanked Amber Jeavons Ltd
    • CWD
      Original Author
      6 years ago

      Gosh, thanks for doing that AJ. It's definitely a more novel approach, I hadn't really realized that the majority of the kitchen would be island-based in your idea. I like the concept, but am not sure I'd actually use it in my own house. I think it works better with a bank of cabinets on one wall as well, but my room is too narrow for that. Loving the non-standard idea though!

    • PRO
      Amber Jeavons Ltd
      6 years ago
      last modified: 6 years ago

      Hello Colourwise design,

      Most welcome! Well could be island or other configurations such as my images earlier.. Of a more interesting design rather than just 2 box shapes as the image shows, which serves the purpose of placement idea and the chameleon effect.

      Ah yes well... I specialise in the non standard! (I don't do boring)(my view and style -not a reflection on anyone else's style) I also look at interiors from an architectural viewpoint as to what is most visually interesting or more unusual and spectacular as well as the practical consideration of course...

      Well you say "Tomato" and I say "Where theres a will theres a way" It all depends really on how much you need and how you look at it.. Anyway... if it gives you an idea then all good... I'm off to prepare for a talk on 3D printing.. :))

      CWD thanked Amber Jeavons Ltd
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