Help with kitchen layout

6 years ago

Hi all,

I wondered if I could get some advice on how to make best use of the space available in our kitchen area. The plan below shows a before and after of our downstairs area. We plan to take the dividing wall of what was our downstairs bathroom and our existing kitchen to make one big space at the back of the property. The room will measure roughly 5m x 3.1m.

I have tried my hand at a few online design tools and haven't really come out with anything I like the look of. I'm not sure whether to go L-shaped or U-shaped and I ultimately end up getting quite frustrated.

Some requirements we'd like if possible:

- An island (but not to the point where it's shoehorned in and isn't practical)

- A dining table. Rectangular. Perhaps 6ft long.

- Dishwasher and washing machine would need to be included in the design

The opening on the left will lead into the garden (decked area). The left half of the kitchen has a vented ceiling which we are looking to take advantage of.

I will be consulting the likes of Wickes/Howdens to get some designs drawn up but would like to know what people on there thought about the space and perhaps provide some inspiration (I am completely lacking in any sort of creativity).

Many thanks for the help.

David

Featured Answer

PRO

User

6 years ago

I like the plan, but without the measurements to back it up, I think you may have made an error on the entire length.

Your kitchen area seems to have grown beyond where the stairs end, and there's too much room in the middle area.

I amended the actual plan, but will maybe have time for a 'play' tomorrow.

I put the wall back where it should be in the lounge as I think it's important to have a closed off area, that leaves the space looking like this:-

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Comments (38)

Heather
6 years ago
Do you need such a large reception room? It would be ~ 7.5m long.

What about keeping the dividing wall between the current reception room and the dining room, and opening up the space between the current dining room and kitchen and bathroom? You could have a nice long run of wall units along the left wall, with an island separating the kitchen from the dining area. Are you keeping the conservatory, from the sounds of your post you are not? If not then you may need to find space for a small seating area inside the open plan.

A downstairs loo might be useful as you are moving bathroom upstairs - this could go under stairs but then is near new kitchen so maybe not so nice!
David Haydon
Original Author
6 years ago
Hi Heather, thank you for the reply.

I did think about what you have suggested and really do like the idea of a larger kitchen. I think the space would be put to more use. If we were to open it up as you say my only slight worry would be the pillar we'd be left with in the middle (at the bottom of the dividing wall in the BEFORE part of the image above).

The conservatory will be coming down in the summer. It isn't to our tastes and is just not efficient in terms of insulation. It is old and falling apart!

We have moved the bathroom upstairs but certainly wouldn't rule out a downstairs WC. It's not essential though. I think we'd prefer to use the space for a larger kitchen area.

Thanks again.

David
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Hi, I'm not a pro, but I think your kitchen is too narrow for your island idea. I do like the layout you are thinking of, but needs to be a bit wider to be able to comfortably walk around the island, especially if someone is cooking there. If you go for an island of a metre wide, you'll have 170 cm left, divided by 2 = 85 cm on both sides of the island. When you open a drawer, it'll take up around 50 cm (guestimating here), which will leave you 35 cm. All a bit tight. Why don't you keep the current layout, which seems very practical with lots of storage and workspace, but without the breakfast bar? Or have the tall cabinets on the left wall, flanking a worktop and cooker and have the sink on the window wall. Then put a small round dining table in front of the bifolds? Or maybe you could put a comfy bench along the bottom wall with a narrow(ish) rectangular dining table there. Or a couple of comfy armchairs with a small table to make a cosy seating corner there.
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Am assuming this plan shows the extended space? If so, I'd put all the tall cabinets along the LHS wall (where it's labelled Dining), sink under window (make those patio doors into window above worktop) and then have the peninsula pulled over towards the tall cabinets so it's a good working space in the kitchen area. Then the dining table can go beside the door to Utility and be beside the Family area. As it is, folk are going to be walking through the kitchen all the time - to get to Family area, to sit at peninsula, to get to Utility and also to the Dining table. That's too much walking through a working space for my liking. So choose an end of the Kitchen and set everything else according to that. Another alternative would be to keep the tall units where they are on the right, but move the peninsula over to come out from the Utility wall rather than the external wall. You'd have to squeeze the sink onto the peninsula too, or reduce the number of tall units on the long wall and insert either the sink or hob there (close to the Family end probably), leaving the other of the hob and the sink on the peninsula. That does mean that you have to walk through a galley-kitchen type space to get to Utility and back door though. But it leaves the patio doors alone and separates the Family and Dining areas.
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Jonathan
6 years ago
I believe regulations require you to retain a downstairs wc
David Haydon
Original Author
6 years ago
I'm not sure if that is actually the case Jonathan. Do you have any sources to back that up? Nothing was said to us when we had ours installed upstairs. We made it very clear we were going to get rid of the existing downstairs bathroom in time.
minnie101
6 years ago
Jonathan is referring to part M of the building regs. The attached would appear to imply it's only applicable to properties built after 1999. I also think if the wc didn't meet part m previously there's no requirement to do so when altering/extending. Did you not need building regs for the new bathroom drainage and ventilation? If you click on this link it would appear to imply you may? It might be worth clarifying in any case

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/34/kitchens_and_bathrooms/4
David Haydon thanked minnie101
David Haydon
Original Author
6 years ago
So I managed to find a good online room designer and have been playing around a bit. I took what Heather said onboard and have utilised the existing dining area and opened up the kitchen/dining areas as well as taken away the reception wall.

Not sure if a career in interior design is beckoning just yet but at least it gives me some idea on what is possible.

Comments welcome.
David Haydon
Original Author
6 years ago
minnie101, thanks for the link. Our property was built just after the 1900's. I'd like to think our builder would have said something if he thought it was a legal requirement. I will ask him about it tomorrow when he pops round. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.
maggieschembri
6 years ago
i would remove the wall next to the external door
maggieschembri
6 years ago
i would keep a wc downstairs for guests and its more comfortable for you.
David Haydon
Original Author
6 years ago
Thanks for the suggestion. Personally I've never been a fan of places where the front door leads straight into the reception area. I like somewhere to keep jackets and shoes and perhaps a small table to put keys on etc.
Jonathan
6 years ago
I think regulations are written in a way that makes them open to interpretation which is why you get differing opinion. I think that a building regulations application may be required if any alteration is to take place to an existing ground floor toilet. Perhaps it is worth checking your local position but I suspect that you won’t be allowed to make accessibility of facilities less convenient for those with mobility problems- which means that I think you can get rid of your downstairs bathroom but will have to have an alternate ground floor wc but I suspect this will pay dividend when you come to sell or when you have visitors with mobility limitations.

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/34/kitchens_and_bathrooms/4
PRO
OnePlan
6 years ago
This is very very very similar to a project that I’m working on this week ! I’ve just finished for the day - so am a bit pooped to start weighing in with ideas too at this stage - ( and I’m full of the cold - so am going to bed shortly !) but if you want to do what my clients are doing - they will be shopping around with our design - so they can compare like for like - give us a call /text/email ... we design the space with you involved at each stage - so it’s unique to you and how you want to live ! Makes a big difference - especially if this will be a long term Home ! ( we don’t sell product - just design )
Toodleoo !
David Haydon thanked OnePlan
Heather
6 years ago
You may not need to keep the pillar in the middle - I’m no builder but I gather sometimes they can work a bit of magic with an RSJ ... might be worth getting some professional advice re: this
David Haydon thanked Heather
David Haydon
Original Author
6 years ago
Man About The House - thank you for that and I think you are right, I've measured again and our house has gained half a metre from bay window to back wall. I was getting to grips with the software and trying to get it done within my lunch break! As Heather has said the only problem is that pillar which supports a steel holding up the upstairs external wall. If we could get rid of this then this whole project becomes much much easier!

OnePlan - Thank you for your offer. I have my builder coming round tomorrow to take a look at things. I will email you in due course. We do see ourselves here for the foreseeable future and would like to get things right first time if we can!

Thanks all. Have a good evening.

David
PRO
User
6 years ago
The steel will be being held up 'almost certainly' because that's the way it was designed. It 'should' be possible to have one steel, although it will be deeper sitting on two nibs either side. You need the nibs to disguise the ends of the kitchen units any way.

Whether or not you have room to take a deeper steel is a matter for the builder and the structural engineer. As OnePlan says, taking on the services of a concept planner is invaluable in many instances as they are really adept at what they do, visualise things instantly and advise on what will flow and work best for you. So I say it's worth a look in to.

I invisualise something like this, but obviously it's an artists impression and relies on info being obtained from a structural engineer, a builder etc.
I think at the end of the day, you have many many ideas, some will work, some won't, but by getting the right professionals on the job, they will help you make the building work for you in the best way possible. Good luck
David Haydon thanked User
Emily
6 years ago
I really do think you should make room for a downstairs toilet. For people with mobility issues, for kids and often fully healthy people (men as well as women) can develop weak bladder issues. And accidents happen too, I fell and broke my leg in two places just walking the dog a couple of years back. Waiting for food shopping to be delivered meant I had to be downstairs and if I didn’t have a toilet I’d have needed a bucket for two months!!
David Haydon thanked Emily
David Haydon
Original Author
6 years ago
Thank you all so much for your input. You've really given me a sense of what is achievable here in the house. At first all I saw were walls and a lack of space. Now I'm starting to see the potential here and what is achievable.

I think keeping the reception room as it is and just adding doors out to the dining/kitchen area is a great idea. The main expense as I see it will come from removing the central support where the existing steel sits. I take it a second steel would support this one from underneath and run from left to right as in the illustration above? I'll have a chat with the builder later and see what he thinks.

I will give adding a downstairs toilet some serious thought Emily. I think what needs to happen is we need to open up the space and see what we have. It'll mean less space for a kitchen unless we can really shoehorn it into the space under the stairs. My only concern here is this is where the water, electricity and gas all present themselves into the property. I'm sure we can get around this though.

Thank you all again. You've been a great help.
PRO
User
6 years ago
No you wouldn't normally have two steels, you would change the existing for a bigger one in depth, but more load bearing. Depends on the walls either side being suitable to have a steel inserted in to them and the height of the steel being suitable to go in to give adequate head height. I'm sure the structural engineer will sort out what's possible.
Kia
6 years ago
I am currently doing a kitchen extension my self, so i understand your dilemma. I would say don't forget to consider letting natural daylight in to the house. If budget permits. I would suggest wall to wall or large enough bifold doors at the rear, to bring the out, in. It makes a a lot of difference to light & feel of the space. I am noticing the difference, as I live in a mid terrace house. Good luck.
David Haydon
Original Author
5 years ago
I thought it would be better to revive my old thread rather than create a new one, I hope that's OK.

After our wedding a weekend or so ago we are now ready to start seriously planning the above works. I have a call scheduled with Resi for later this week which I 'm sure will be helpful.

I measured the width we'll have available and it's coming out at 4.6m. This I think will be enough width for what we have planned. That being a set of units along the right wall and a 900mm wide island. This would leave roughly 3m for space around the island and then either a dining table or perhaps even a small sofa on the leftside.

Before I go barking up the wrong tree here, does this all sound feasible? The design would very much look like the one above in Man About the House's sketch. Galley design with a long island up the middle.

Is there anything else I need to consider here? I want to try and get as many questions together before speaking with the architects/designers.

Thanks again.
Emmanuelle
5 years ago
Hi David,
Your project reminded me of our last house kitchen... If you have a width of 4.60 m, once you count the units depth (60cm), the gap between units and island (100 cm) and the depth of island itself ( you say 90 cm) , you won’t have 3 meters left, but only 2.10! Which is a little squeezed for a table/ sofa... Here are a plan of what I would personally think of doing, and ideas of tables+ benches; if you reduce the depth of the island to 60, and have quite a narrow table, it might all fit in... just might!
David Haydon thanked Emmanuelle
David Haydon
Original Author
5 years ago
Hi Emanuelle. Yes, apologies, I meant that the 3m would include the space around one side of the island as well as the space needed for other things. On other words, yes, we only have about 2m to play with.

Thank you for those pictures and for the inspiration. Some great ideas there. I have yet to measure the total length of what would be our new kitchen - I will do this tonight.
Ellie
5 years ago
Units, gap, island, gap, dining table. I posted similar on here last week and most folk reckon minimum of 5.5m needed. If the island had no stools it would still be a squeeze.
David Haydon
Original Author
5 years ago
Thanks Ellie. I've been playing around with an online designing tool and will post what I have tomorrow. It's quite hard knowing where to place things to maximise space.
David Haydon
Original Author
5 years ago
I've been having a play around using Homebyme and came up with the below. I think this layout could work providing we have a narrower island width and have one of the benches/ right up against the wall.

Placement regarding appliances etc isn't final. I have no idea when it comes to putting what where and have to play around with is some more.
Emmanuelle
5 years ago
Hi David,
Super efficient layout! I would do the same. It might mean though, that when you have people for dinner, it’s a little squeezed... ( we used to have the same type of kitchen, with same-ish dimensions and managed fine!) The majority of the time, it will be spacious enough! And now you end up with a nice useable area where the dining room was. Future play area?
David Haydon
Original Author
5 years ago
Thank you Emmanuelle. great idea re a play area too. I'll have a play with it some more. We'd like to hang pots and pans up above the island with some nice lighting.
Ellie
5 years ago
Hi David. I have used homebyme and my pics are not as good as yours!

I see you have no stools on the long side of the island (peninsula) it is now narrower so it could fit.

I would certainly not have hob there on an island of just 60cm depth, I would put that on the opposite side.
David Haydon
Original Author
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago
Hi Ellie,

Check out the Realistic Images function. It's great!

I agree about the hob. I think this needs to go on the wall with the units with the sink on the long island. I'll move the stools to the long side also. This will free up space in the end unit for storage (cookbooks, wine etc). My only issue there is that we wouldn't have the overhang for legs to go under....

Thanks for your advice.
Ellie
5 years ago
If you were only having 60cm depth, I don't think stools would work, and if stools were there you would not be able to comfortably get in and out of chairs at the table.

Off to try the realistic images now!
David Haydon
Original Author
5 years ago
As I thought really. I'll find a place to put them! :)
Emily
5 years ago
Don’t know how long your island would be but this sort of set up could work? 60cm island with gap on end or even in middle for two stools facing each other? Could be any style but this was only pic I could find of the set up
David Haydon
Original Author
5 years ago
That looks great and certainly something we could consider. Thanks.
David Haydon
Original Author
5 years ago
Hi guys, me again. So now that the wedding is out of the way (and I mean that in the nicest possible way), we can finally start thinking about the house refurb. Attached are a few mock ups using homebyme. They are as technically accurate as I can get them but obviously realise things will need to be moved around slightly. The general idea can be seen though.

The hob would move next to the fridge (which may also move) and we'd have the sink in the island. The shelves you can see take up too much space and therefore wouldn't be used. We'd have something like in the pic below instead.

I am still unsure as to whether or not to have a dividing wall between the living room and the kitchen. I'd welcome any thoughts you guys might have before I go ahead and have someone draw up something.

Cheers

David
PRO
OnePlan
5 years ago
Hey David - there are a few safety issues with your latest kitchen design - please get this safety checked by a credible pro before you order anything !
It’s impossible for you to know all of the relevant rules associated with kitchen design - as this isn’t your day job - so don’t despair !
David Haydon thanked OnePlan
David Haydon
Original Author
5 years ago
Hi Oneplan, thank you for this. Don't worry, we are nowhere near the ordering stage just yet. I messaged you a while back and you sent me a detailed reply which I'm going to read over now - thank you.
PRO
BetterSpace: The Floor Plan Experts
5 years ago
Hi David, the new plans looks really workable and only a little organisation will help things a lot. For a start, I would suggest that the Kitchen could remain in its earlier position, as it works just great, and am sure you are also keen on reducing the costs for this renovation. Consider putting a small kitchen island in the middle of the space, but nearer to the kitchen area such that one can work comfortably between both of these. The dishwasher and the washing machine can take up the space on the north wall adjacent to the kitchen area. If both can’t fit in the small area without blocking the rear exit, consider pushing the washing machine along that wall such that it’s just next to the small island. In fact the island is best placed in that position to be used as a worktop, bench during clothes cleaning. Lastly, the 6ft dining table can occupy the remaining space between the island and east wall comfortably and with a lot of space to spare for chair movement. This pretty straightforward arrangement will save on both the time and cost of doing your modification. Hope this helps. If you need any further advice, feel free to get in touch via email (ed.rogers@betterspace.co) or through out site: www.betterspace.co. All the best! Ed