Advice needed on side return extension and connecting room layout!

3 years ago

We have a fairly standard layout small victorian terraced house with a small kitchen in a flat roof extension at the back, and we've decided to do a side return extension to give us a bigger kitchen/dining room. One of the problems I'm having that I could really use advice and opinions on, is how to connect the new extended kitchen/diner with the current dining room in a way that ensures the dining room is left as usable living space and not just a glorified hallway!

I've created a rough floorplan of the current layout and included a photo (please forgive the chaos - working from home plus not enough storage!)

What it doesnt show is that the current dining room is opened up to the living room via an almost full width archway, so essentially one large room, both with chimney breasts and alcoves.

Basically what I'm thinking is:

- the new extended kitchen diner will become full width of the house and be sloped roof with as many veluxes as possible

- the entrance should be where the current dining room window is to get maximum light into the current dining room, I'm thinking wider than average entrance with no door. Maybe up to 50% of the wall width? And if the sloped extension attaches to the dining room at a height lower than the current window, to add a fanlight in above it.

- The current doorway to be bricked up to give us usable wall space in the kitchen for counters/cupboards etc

The issues are:

- Most houses that have done this extension have got a hallway that divides the staircase from the dining area but we don't and the stairs are open plan onto the dining room, which makes things trickier. Other houses I've seen that have gone totally open plan between extended kitchen and current dining room don't have a step down into the kitchen like we have, so I feel like this would make going totally open plan tricky and wouldnt look right.

- If we brick up the current doorway, we will need to move the understairs cupboard door, but not sure if we should put the new door from the kitchen side, or further down the staircase?

- I'm really concerned that by moving the entrance to the kitchen from the current doorway to the other side of the current dining room, it will turn the current room into just a through passage, where people come from one corner of the room and have to go diagonally across the room to get into the kitchen.

-Taking into consideration there will probably be an understairs cupboard door to avoid, it leaves us with basically no usable wall space in the current room, so if it isnt a dining room, what configuration of furniture could we even do?? One of the alcoves will probably be opened up by the new kitchen entrance, so we could have something in the second alcove, but I'm struggling with where else we could place furniture and what to use the room for.

- Should we consider taking the chimney breast out of the dining room to give more flexibility to the room layout?

Sorry if this isn't very clearcut, am struggling to make sense of the issues in words!

Thanks for any advice :)

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Comments (3)

PRO
Kay Moden
3 years ago
Hi there,

You are typically not allowed to have the main staircase open with the kitchen - the kitchen is considered as a fire risk area, and it can't usually be connected to a means of escape route. It's hard to tell from the plan and photo if that would be the case, or if it's possible to mitigate for this by doing other changes to the staircase (like separating it from the kitchen/dining etc).

Assuming the above is possible, you could move the kitchen to where the current dining room is, and have the dining in the extended space/existing kitchen. It's totally fine to have the kitchen as a passage towards the dining room (yes, remove the breast if you can, it will make things much easier if you put the kitchen here). This is just an option - i'm sure with a proper look there could be other options as well.

I really think you should seek the advice of a professional, at least to a certain stage in the project - not can we only design an effective layout, but can also clearly see what all the implications will be, be it structural or Building Regs related.

Good luck!

Andrei
Char M thanked Kay Moden
Char M
Original Author
3 years ago
Hey Andrei,

Thanks for your advice - I should have mentioned that yes we are getting the proper advice, we are choosing an architect at the moment and I will make a note to ask them specifically about the stairs/kitchen fire risk aspect.

I totally agree that if the kitchen was moved to the middle room (ie next to the open stairs) it would be ok to have it as the 'passage' to other rooms, however if it isn't a kitchen and is used as living space I'm more concerned about this. I guess because in a kitchen you're probably busy, whereas if you're in living area you're more likely to be relaxing and regular disturbance isnt great? We're not keen on moving the kitchen to another room, I feel it would look really out of place in either the front room with bay window, or the middle room with the open stairs (cooking smells/smoke/noise would travel upstairs easily etc). Equally, we're keen to avoid closing off the stairs too - worried it would make them pretty dark and would also affect the light to the middle room!

I think I've narrowed down my worries to being basically that if the current dining room becomes living space, and has a large entrance to the kitchen where the current window is (plus maybe an additional entrance where the current doorway is), it makes the room really hard to use in terms of layout and furniture etc. It won't have much usable wall space and I'm struggling to think of how we could layout anything like storage/some seating, maybe a desk etc.

Does that make more sense?
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This layout makes sense, but there are other options; If you are concerned with the size of the kitchen, you could look into moving the kitchen to the back. knock down the closet behind the toilet and locate the kitchen on that wall from side to side with a large island in the middle. The opposite wall can have a large bookcase/cabinet from side to side. The dining table can stand where the kitchen is now and you can make an opening from the lounge to the dining area for better flow. Check out what we do, we specialise in house layout design and are always happy to help if you need any further advice. visit our website: www.betterspace.co We offer a package that include tailored design, furniture layout recommendations and a professional floor-plan drawing as well as a 3D package which includes a 3D floor-plan and photo-realistic images that will help you visualise your new design. You can use promo code ‘houzz’ for a further 15% discount!
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Ok, here's my attempt: I love the idea of a walk-in pantry, but I couldn seem to get the space to work that way, so I ditched it. Anyway it would have stolen your bathroom window. Maybe use the extra space in the bathroom for a utility closet with washer and dryer, plus storage for mops etc. Meanwhile, the kitchen seemed to make more sense in the bright part of the room, with the living area in the cosier space at the back. I would 'zone' the living area with the biggest rug you can find. To seperate the living from dining area, you could try an open bookcase which gives separation but lets light through, while providing great storage. For the dining area, I would go with a long narrow table with bench inside. The table can be pushed right in when the bench isn't in use. Finally I think the kitchen would work well as one long run and an island, with a sink in the island. There are stools in this pic but I'm not sure if they'd clutter the space too much. Looks like a lovely bright space, I hope some of these ideas help!
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Hi- I could have written this post myself! We too are having a partial side return resulting in an L shape layout. Our overall length is a bit shorter (5 vs your 6), but with the side return ours will be wider at 3.1m and 6m wide. Getting the layout right is so hard! We’ve decided to keep our formal dining room as is, and the kitchen in its existing galley type shape. We will have a peninsula come out at the top end to form bar seating for the kids/guests. The “old fence side” of the new area will have a toilet room and a laundry cupboard for the washer and dryer. I’m having the kitchen designed so that anything a guest/kid/non cook might need is towards the front, eg fridge, snack cupboard, window fridge, cutlery, trash receptacle etc. I am hoping that keeps everyone out of the cook’s zone, aka my way! I want to make the peninsula wide enough so it can feel more like a kitchen table, and be a comfortable spot for the kid’s homework too.
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Yes, that makes sense, I thought that might be the case. It's a shame the stairs to the cellar are there as it makes it very difficult to have storage here instead which is really useful for any under-stairs space. But I have an unusual idea for a custom rolling storage unit which could roll out to allow access to the cellar storage. It would be possible to make the layout work but bedroom 2 would have to have the original wall with the hall making it smaller. the bathroom could be made a bit smaller to give a bit more space to the bedrooms too. Do you want to have 2 evenly sized bedrooms or 1 larger main bedroom? I hope these notes and ideas are helpful for you! Our services are available if you would like to develop these designs further with us. I would recommend an initial design development session. A 1h phone meeting where we discuss all your requirements and some possible layouts which incorporate your needs/priorities and afterwards I produce several detailed sketches for the ideas/options discussed. If you would like to arrange one of these then please feel free to contact me at: info@phillipbrewerarchitecture.co.uk Then if you choose to proceed further we would produce an accurate and detailed 3D digital model for a planning application and/or set of construction drawings.
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PRO
Kay Moden
3 years ago
Hey Char,

It's hard to tell without a full plan and a pencil - I can only agree that having the dining as you have it now is not ideal. If you have the means to separate the living room from the dining, then try the option at least on the paper. And the other thing is, its good to make your own research, but leave some of this to the architects. Its part of their expertise to sort it out to your liking, so you dont have to wyorry about it. Maybe ask if they can create a couple of options and some 3D sketches - it's what I would deliver.
Also the kitchen next to a staircase can be quite cool (like photo below), if fire escape is not an issue of course.

Hope this helps.
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Advice needed on side return extension and connecting room layout!

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Kay Moden

Char M
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Advice needed on side return extension and connecting room layout!

Comments (3)

Kay Moden

Char MOriginal Author

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Char M
Original Author