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Design Dilemma
amcox_us

Whole House Audio

A C
10 years ago
I need to decide what system and where o place the speakers. Does anyone know of systems to recommend? I've had a company suggest NuVo. Then there's Bose. I'm not familiar with any. Another comp any stated that I need 2 speakers. I'm not so sure if that I necessary. I also prefer in-ceiling speaker, oppose to exposed speakers.

The home that I'm building is three levels, with a basement. The basement will not be included in this phase, only the three levels. I plan to have the speakers in the bonus area on the third floor, master bed, master bath, main floor office, kitchen, deck off the kitchen, basement patio, possibly the family room hall.

Thoughts? Suggestions?
Featured Answer
  • PRO
    User
    10 years ago
    I'm a home entertainment systems designer. Let me help clear things up. In-Ceiling speakers can be purchased as a stereo pair for larger areas and as a single which connects as a stereo pair for smaller areas. The single speaker combines the left and right bass and mid tone information into the single woofer, (large round black cone on the speaker) and then uses two tweeters (smaller round, sometimes made of metal) for the stereo left and right. We use these in powder rooms, laundry rooms, etc. You still pull a stereo pair of wire to the single speaker location.

    In order to improve sonic performance when using any in-ceiling or in-wall speaker, use speakers with 8" woofers, stay away for cheap and try and avoid in-wall volume controls. (more on that in a bit) Don’t overlook the idea of also including a subwoofer in the rooms where sound matters more. They add a fullness to the music which makes listening to your system that much more enjoyable. Many think they’re not interested in rocking out or partying so a subwoofer in not a necessity. WRONG! It makes an improvement in the overall sound even at the lowest levels. Live music, even a single piano has a lot of low tones so do a subwoofer if you can.

    For best performance, use in-ceiling speakers from manufacturers who are actually speaker engineering companies. Paradigm was mentioned in an earlier post. They are a speaker engineering company with a real R&D department and a factory. B&W, Revel and Monitor Audio are also complete engineering companies and manufacturers with factories. What this means is the don’t just use speaker parts and attach them to a plastic frame. They invest into improving the in-wall and in-ceiling speakers by observing the limitations of walls and ceilings and designing real solutions around these limitations.

    If you decide to purchase high quality speakers, the last thing you want to do is put volume controls in the walls. Volume controls in the walls basically block fidelity. An in-wall volume control is a passive device that more or less chokes the signal going to the speaker. The lower the volume the more it chokes. When the knob is turned all the way up it is chokes the least but the volume will be to high for actual listening. I try and encourage my client to avoid them at all expense these days.

    So how do we work around not using in-wall volume controls? Simple. Use a distributed audio system, such as the Sonos that controls volume with a a touch device. Sonos allows you to use all your favorite music services like Pandora or Spotify, tune in any radio stations from anywhere in the world and also connects to your iTunes collection on your computer. You then control it with an iPone, iPad or iPod Touch as well as Android and using your desk top. And yes, you can select to listen to different options throughout the home. If you wish to learn more, feel free to contact me.
    Cheers, Devin

    Comments (65)

    • PRO
      User
      10 years ago
      Bose are an excellent solution for those who don't want to put much thought to their purchase. For Whole House Audio purposes, they offer very little in flexibility and sound quality when compared to similar priced systems. It's difficult to integrate other technologies with them as well. For this reason, we don't recommend using Bose for Whole House Audio systems.
    • A C
      Original Author
      10 years ago
      Home theater? Surround sound for TV? Bose? Other? As you can tell, since I'm building, I have several things going on. The surround will be for my TV in the family room. I will have a home theater in the basement. Yet, I want the whole house audio for the remaining portions of the home.

      Thank you, again Devin, you have been wonderful.

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    • Ed
      10 years ago
      Hi amcox_us, Congrats on your new home! I've heard unflattering things about Bose, that they're much better at marketing than their actual products.
      Check out Paradigm speakers: Paradigm Studio 60 Floorstand speaker, Paradigm CC-490 Center speaker, Paradigm SA-10R Reference Round Ceiling Speakers, Paradigm Seismic 110 Subwoofer.
      Good luck! :)
    • A C
      Original Author
      10 years ago
      Does Sonos offer an in-ceiling system? Can I have the same options as Russound, NuVo, etc.? I really don't want speakers sitting all over the home. I like clean discreet look.
    • PRO
      User
      10 years ago
      Sonos offers a variety of solutions. Not just table radios. Give these people a call. They're in Atlanta and most likely can offer you all the help you need. http://audioat.net
    • A C
      Original Author
      10 years ago
      Thanks! Devin - you are the greatest!
    • PRO
      User
      10 years ago
      last modified: 10 years ago
      My Pleasure!
    • A C
      Original Author
      10 years ago
      Thoughts on the brands of speakers:

      Sonance
      Niles
      Dynaudio
      JM labs focal
      Martin Logan
      Burmester
    • PRO
      User
      10 years ago
      For sound quality purposes I prefer to use speakers from actual engineering companies as well as manufacturers. Dyn, JM are the two in your list who qualify as so. What this means is they have invested heavy into making better sounding speaker designed around the limitations of in-wall or in-ceiling mounting. Brands like Niles and Sonance use high quality components in a more generic plastic frame. We use Revel and Paradigm. Both are very advanced engineering companies and both are their own manufacturing companies. Dynaudio is nice but they have a very limited selection. I know nothing about the JM's other than their company is known for the high quality designs.
    • PRO
      Opus Audio | Video | Control Inc.
      10 years ago
      Hi amcox_us. Adding my opinion to this discussion, I have a slightly different point of view. While the decision of exactly which products to put into your home needs careful attention, you will find that even more important is to partner with a competent local professional and follow their advice carefully. The products you choose are only as good as the company who stands behind them. Ask the hard questions such as how long the company has been in business, what is the warranty and support policy. Also, it is important to establish a budget upfront, as electronic systems can vary widely in price. Avoiding sticker shock helps everyone better understand the parameters of your unique wishes and needs. I hope you find this useful. Peter
    • A C
      Original Author
      10 years ago
      Thank you! Great advice, Peter!
    • A C
      Original Author
      10 years ago
      What is a typical warranty period?
    • PRO
      Opus Audio | Video | Control Inc.
      10 years ago
      Hi amcox, I see warranty periods going from 90 days to 2 years. The important thing is to ask upfront what the warranty includes and for how long.
    • A C
      Original Author
      10 years ago
      Is it required to prewire a whole house audio system with wall volume controls? I have the builder contractor saying that it is a must. I'm considering getting the Sono. Other companies sell NuVo and Russound. Please help, before they get to this point.
    • PRO
      User
      10 years ago
      last modified: 10 years ago
      I could better answer your question if you share the details of your system. How many rooms-zones do you intend to put speakers in? Can some of the rooms-zones share a single volume control? (kitchen and nook, foyer and hallway, pool, patio and yard)
    • A C
      Original Author
      10 years ago
      I have 8 zones: kitchen, master bed, master bath, living room/office, basement patio, kitchen deck & 2nd floor hall. I want a system that can be controlled bey remote, iPad, and phone. I was told that Sono can accommodate both a wired speakers and wireless. So, I was thinking about that system. I haven't finalized my decision. NuVo and Russound are the other options. Somewhere down the road, I may consider a home automation system through the security.

      Decisions Decisions.
    • PRO
      Opus Audio | Video | Control Inc.
      10 years ago
      Sonos would fit the bill for you and allow you to expand later if you wish. Have fun and enjoy the process.
    • A C
      Original Author
      10 years ago
      Does the contractor for the builder have to wire for a volume control on the wall? He says yes, but I heard that it isn't necessary and be better not to even have a wall control. He said, even if you didn't use it, he had to wire for it and he'd just put a wall plate over it. If that isn't true, I want to be able to challenge it. I don't want something like that on the wall. It doesn't look good. The Sono will allow me to use: iPad, phone and a remote. No néed for a wall volume control.
    • PRO
      Opus Audio | Video | Control Inc.
      10 years ago
      Typically, there is no need for an in-wall volume control with Sonos. Volume is usually controlled using your tablet or smartphone,
    • Katrina
      10 years ago
      Sonos Sonos Sonos. Everything else is now obsolete
    • A C
      Original Author
      10 years ago
      Thank you very much! I forgot to add, if I plan to possibly add home type of home automation, would a prewire for the volume control be necessary or handy or more economical? Again, because the builder is saying that the VC prewire must happen and they just put it there and cover it with a wall mount. It just doesn't sound right, but what do I know. I'm just looking the reason that it might be needed. If so, would it just be in one location?
    • PRO
      User
      10 years ago
      I've never heard of volume controls being a must. Unless it's some strange regulation in your area there is no need for volume controls on the walls. Not using volume controls on the wall makes a huge sonic improvement too. Since you're going to have to demand they not do volume controls I'd also demand they pull 14awg speaker cable. NOT 16 or even worse, 18awg cable. If in the future you wish for a home automation system, you'll most likely control it with an iPad. Again, no need to prewire for it unless you feel you would like an ipad permanently mounted to the wall. Then yes, pull a hit of Cat5 to that foreseeable location. I would also recommend you pull Cat5 from a central location to any location that you might see AV components being placed such as TV's. This will allow for a direct network connection instead of wifi for streaming devices like Apple TV and the future of cable tv. It's also a good idea for a home office or where you envision a computer location to be.
    • A C
      Original Author
      10 years ago
      Thanks! Devin, I will try my best to give you a call tomorrow. I don't want to make a mistake when I have that discussion. I want my words to very accurate.
    • PRO
      User
      10 years ago
      I'll be in the field all day tomorrow and won't be able to take your call. Tuesday would be better.
    • fromorma
      10 years ago
      Another Sonos lover here. It totally FREES your entire music collection, is easily expandable, and allows every family member to listen to something different at the same time. More and more third party services are building platforms that integrate with Sonos as well.
    • A C
      Original Author
      10 years ago
      Devin,

      Do you have knowledge of Audio, Automation & Theater Company? Kevin has been very helpful. Being that I have no idea in this space, I'm totally exposed.
    • PRO
      User
      10 years ago
      I'm sorry, I know nothing of their company other than what I found on-line for you. I'm available today if you wish to talk.
    • Mark Ciraulo
      10 years ago
      Definitely have your builder pull and route 14 gauge speaker wire and Cat5 through volume control locations throughout the home even if you choose not to put a gangbox and plate at the location.
      This way the cables can always be utilized later to facilitate the installation of other types of Audio and or home automation and control systems on the market.
      This also allows you to place static in-wall keypads provided by many whole house audio and home automation manufacturers In the future if you desire.
      Although we like the Sonos system we also offer the Nuvo system and it definitely has advantages over the Sonos solution, one of which is the ability to use static in wall keypads for local and whole house room control.
      Many clients like the functionality of utilizing both their iPad and static in-wall keypads for control of both their audio in home automation systems.
      As far as speakers go, we carry lines that provide the best audio quality for the dollar spent with lifetime warranties.
      We Have a satellite company in Anderson South Carolina named Carolina home theater If you need help finishing any of your home electronics.
      We also provide affordable contemporary home theater rooms and work with a wonderful artist out of Atlanta Georgia creating acoustically transparent home theater wall art that beautifies your theater room.
      If you have any questions or need help feel free to give us a call.
      Mark Ciraulo
      Hamptons Home Theater
      Carolina Home Theater
      631 353 2007
    • A C
      Original Author
      10 years ago
      Mark, thanks for your feedback. So, the same wiring can be used for Home Automation?
    • Mark Ciraulo
      10 years ago
      Cat5 is the key and can Be utilized for both whole house audio in wall keypads or a home automation system.
      Our pre-wiring scheme actually provides for two Cat5 pulls to volume control locations even if they are just concealed behind the wall.
      This allows us to come in at any time after the finish of the home to install whole house audio, home automation, or even a complete home intercom system.
      I can discuss the other advantages to this scheme in more detail over the phone if you wish.
    • A C
      Original Author
      10 years ago
      Total Connect vs Control 4
    • PRO
      Opus Audio | Video | Control Inc.
      10 years ago
      Control4 would be my strong personal preference between the two.
    • Mark Ciraulo
      10 years ago
      I would suggest Total Connect for an introductory type automation system.
      The Total Connect is a Security System with automation capabilities.
      Total connect allows offsite control of security, HVAC, lighting, door access, and camera viewing, but is limited in the number of devices the system can control.

      I am not a fan of control4, not just because of it's inability to broadcast whole home audio without echo, or unexplained hiccups, mainly because of the manufacturers checkered history in it's treatment of dealers.

      Elan for me would be a much better choice and solution for more advanced Home Automation.

      Obviously, if you have a good sized budge you could opt for amx, Crestron, Savant.

      Entry Level Automation-Total Connect
      Mid-level Automation-Elan
      High-level Automation-Crestron

      The choice is really determined by needs and budget.

      What do you want control of?
      Security, Lighting, Audio, Window Treatments, HVAC, Doors, Cameras, etc.

      What is the budget for the automation system excluding the peripherals you want controlled?
    • PRO
      ALL DIGITAL, LLC
      10 years ago
      Hello, we are located in the Atlanta area.
      We will be glad to schedule a visit to discuss your project.
      www.alldigital-av.com
    • A C
      Original Author
      10 years ago
      Sonos?
    • PRO
      ALL DIGITAL, LLC
      10 years ago
      Sonos is a good product, however, you will be limited to whole-house music only.
    • dclostboy
      10 years ago
      I like my sonos, but can't pull cable in current house.
    • PRO
      Chateau Begnaud
      10 years ago
      I have the Bose Lifestyle System in my house and have been very happy with it. I have about 8 zones, and have always enjoyed crisp, clear audio, and astounding home theater. I would highly recommend.
    • Mark
      10 years ago
      I also have Bose home audio system and LOVE it !
    • A C
      Original Author
      10 years ago
      Please expand on the lack of the ability to pull cable and only being limited to whole house audio.

      Can I have another system AND Sonos for additional rooms that aren't wired for ceiling speakers?
    • PRO
      ALL DIGITAL, LLC
      10 years ago
      last modified: 10 years ago
      amcox_us:

      Sonos is a great whole-house audio solution, however, it is only audio. You can invest those $$ with Control4 or any other automation system. You can start with audio and add other features later like climate control, lighting, AV control, etc...

      Hope this helps!
    • PRO
      Norwood Architects
      10 years ago
      Good input Room Service. I have enjoyed the sonos system as well if only looking for audio.
    • PRO
      Vincent Longo Custom Builders
      10 years ago
      I have had terrific success with the Control 4 system. In fact I won a gold OBIE award last evening for a home theater that we installed the control 4 system in. The judges were blown away at the performance and cost!
    • PRO
      Digital Logic Systems
      9 years ago
      Here's a system I just finished in Roswell. Maybe this can give you some ideas.

    • Mark Ciraulo
      9 years ago
      We have spoke before and can handle any needs you may have in Atlanta.
      Mark Ciraulo
      Carolina Home Theater
      864 760 7922
    • elisalinscott
      8 years ago

      amcox, what did you ultimately do? I am in the exact position you were in. what do you recommend?

    • mmmmguinness33
      7 years ago

      elisalinscott - Did you ever decide on a whole house audio system?

    • PRO
      Home Theater San Diego
      7 years ago

      For Whole House Audio Video in San Diego Ca, contact Dane @ Home Theater San Diego 619 595 1757

    • gladatbeach
      5 years ago

      we have wired paradigm speakers in 8 zones, cat 5 to each room and will probably go with Nuvo. I would go with Contol4, but they are so secretive about their specs and only speak with dealers. Any other ideas?


    • PRO
      Opus Audio | Video | Control Inc.
      5 years ago

      Gladatbeach; if you are only concerned with music, look at the Sonos system. I would recommend it over c4 and Nuvo in that scenario.

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