Staging / feasibility of knock through and extension

last month

Hi all, have been trawling through past discussions for views on a question we are currently grappling with. Looking at a possible house purchase, amazing location, orientation and natural light. But 1930s Met house that has not been modernised, kitchen just a job and sink, etc etc. Everyone keeps saying it would be a big project if we bought it, and we get that but probably can’t quite envisage how big!

There is some work that we’d want to do ASAP: the whole house needs rewiring; the kitchen is barely functionable (and we are a family of four). In the long term it would be amazing to do a half single/half double story extension out the back and get an extra bedroom that way. But I don’t think we could afford that to begin with (total budget for all works now £100k). But I also don’t think it would be workable to live in the house for a couple years and save more for the extension, for the reasons set out above.

The ideal immediate things would be: straighten out dog leg at kitchen wall (which I think means removal of a chimney breast) to make that space square; rewire; knock down wall between back room and kitchen and install some kind of new kitchen (which ideally would be swapped to the other side, where the sitting room is now, as there’s more space on that side); finish conversion of garage into small study that extended into the big downstairs bathroom behind it, while still keeping a downstairs loo in the back part of that space, and if we could also fitting the washing machine and dryer in there). The who house needs new floors but at least I think you would have to do in new knocked through back room. And put in some new windows and French doors at the back for more light and as current ones quite old.I think the house will need a new boiler too.

My questions are: would it be feasible to do work like this without wasting too much money if in a few years’ time we could build an extension; and is this amount of work feasible with our budget; and how long might it all take.

Pics to follow. Obviously a bit hard to get concrete advice as we don’t own the house and only have the info to hand from agent. Trying to work out if want to make an offer.

Thank you for your help!

Featured Answer

Jonathan

last month

It’s a big job and expensive so I agree with Isla about caution and being prepared to walk away. Be realistic about how much the work will cost and how much it’s going to be worth after you have lavished time and money on it. Is it worth it? Is there a price to pay that makes it worth it?

If your budget is £100,000 then there is zero opportunity for extension now as renovations will eat all of your cash. So you need to maximise the space now - that being said it is the size of a brand new four bedroomed detached house.

You should put the furniture into storage, go live with Mum and get the work done quickly. Hope it will take 4 months, be prepared to be let down by builders and it take longer.

If it needs rewiring I would bet there are plenty of jobs that have been neglected. So I would start with scaffolding, the roof, gutters, repairing pointing, removing the back door and a couple of side windows, adding a velux for the bathroom and outside decoration.

Inside I would have the chimney breast out of the back reception room and bedroom, I would move the door to bedroom three to make furniture placement easier and I would extend the upstairs bathroom into the storage space to create room for at least an extra upstairs WC and ideally a shower too. Downstairs I would gain square footage by converting the front part of the garage and instead of the oversized downstairs bathroom have a small grandparents bedroom and guest WC.

Then you need wiring and plumbing, replastering and then you can start putting it back together.

Don’t forget that if it’s a semi you will need a party wall agreement to remove the chimney. If you replace the garage door with a window you will need planning permission. You can apply for planning permission before you have keys.

This is an everyday job for a really good building firm so you don’t need a project manager but it is prudent to get a fixed fee and to want to have a schedule of what trades are working when so that you can ensure they are on track. And even though you are not living there treat it like your home and every weekend for 4 months you need to turn up, mow the lawn, prune trees, clip hedges, sweep floors, sand woodwork, bleach the working toilet, and feel a sense of responsibility to the house beyond forking out money. You also need to be prepared to visit through the week too- this helps nip any builder absenteeism in the bud, helps ensure you get what you want not what is easiest for the builder.

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Comments (14)

Shannan M
Original Author
last month
Pictures
Isla Cherry
last month
Just off the top of my head I would keep looking at other properties. I appreciate it sounds as though there are a lot of positives but unless you can get it for an exceptional price the work that you are proposing could run as high as £150 000. To add to that you have at least 6 months of chaos and mess to deal with. That scale of work (second phase) could be as long as a year. I have extensively renovated 4 houses. I would walk away because that level of work is not for everybody. You have admitted that you are not seasoned renovators. You may find something that requires a lot less work for a busy family of four. Another thing to consider is resale. How much of that investment would you get back if you had to sell it? Look at comparable properties in the area. If you go ahead do it with your eyes open. Get builder quotes and get it for as good a price as possible. Negociate hard. There may also be other things you are not aware of like roof repairs or replacement. I once paid a surveyor for a quick survey of a house before we went ahead. We pulled out as the basics hadn't been done. It was just a cosmetic job by a developer for resale and quick profit.
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That makes it dearer :( skip past the quotes bit for indicative costs https://householdquotes.co.uk/cost-of-extension/
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There are many things to consider here. I would strongly suggest initially speaking with an architect, generally they will give you an hours free consultation on site and then let you know what they would charge for drawings moving forwards. In my opinion whatever you eventually decide to do it should look like it has always been there as any compromise to this can disrupt the natural flow to your property making it feel odd and uncomfortable and adversely affect it future resale. Take you time and consider all options before making an expensive decision, and take as much free professional advice that you can.
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A conservatory must have a lockable door to the rest of the house, otherwise it is not a conservatory, but an extension. Conservatories can often be built without planning permission, within limits, whereas extensions are far more likely to require planning. However, as the structure has presumably been standing for at least four years, and external appearance will not be altered, planning is unlikely to be an issue going forward. If you are likely to be selling the property within the near future, ensure that you and your estate agents always refer to the structure as a conservatory, to avoid attracting unwanted scrutiny. You will always require building regs approval for the removal of a wall, and although this might seem to be a pain, you don't want your house falling into your conservatory when a heavy lorry rumbles by. There is, however, one exception to this. Your kitchen window already has a lintel above, so as long as your proposed opening will not be wider than the window, then no structural work is required. Simply remove the window frame and the wall immediately below. The only tool required would be a large angle grinder, and the work would be within the capability of any competent DIYer.
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Shannan M
Original Author
last month
Thank you ski much for taking the time to comment Isla. You’re right about the size of the work, and need to weigh up closely costs versus value. This would be a forever home so we’re more open than we otherwise would be to doing things in stages. IE if it would be feasible possibly knock the kitchen / sitting room together first. An extension would be at least a few years away, and we would definitely need to move out for that. Really helpful food for thought :) .
Isla Cherry
last month
Sorry to sound negative but I went into all our renovations (5 houses) with a really positive attitude and slowly grew tired of jobs that dragged on, the days when they don't turn up at all and the constant intrusion of privacy not to mention the mess and chaos. The upside is that if you chose your builder wisely you will end up with a great result and have learnt quite a lot about the process. It's whether you have the patience for it. Only you will know whats right for you. I have also learned that it will be much more expensive than you think. Have a contingency of at least 15%. Scope of works will grow as other items will crop up that need doing and it often makes sense to do them while they are on site rather than at a later date. Good luck with whichever decision you make.
Isla Cherry
last month
You would think Jonathan has done this before! Great advice and such a good point about keeping it tidy and looking after it even while the building work is proceeding. If you don't care the builders will take their cue from you. Try and be on site every day because some builders take advantage if you are absent. You won't know what the builder is like until you are into the works.
rinked
last month
What does the exterior look like? Any chance of a future lot conversion, for example? As perhaps an extension is way beyond options at the moment, but it is worthwhile having a long term plan, so you can already take into account small preparations, such as staircase, some plumbing, soil pipe, doorways and such.
rinked
last month
Which direction do the ceiling joists go? (visible on photos?)
Tanya Llewellyn
last month
Have a look on YouTube at Gosforth Handyman - he has just finished a reno/extension on a 1930s house, and it took him two years! He did do a lot of the work himself, and they were let down by some builders and had to find another, but it gives you an idea of the massive amount of work that went into it. To be fair, though, it's flipping amazing to look at now! It might give you an idea of what you'd be in for if you take this on.
rinked
last month
Two possible ground floor layouts and one for the first floor:
Shannan M
Original Author
last month
Thank you all for taking the time and ideas. Jonathan and Isla, the voice of experience is very welcome. It’s particularly valuable having a sense of how far £100k might get us, and the time needed just to get the house up to a modern standard. I’m open to both cost and time for the right place (and the right purchase price) but as ever the key to buying the right place is making sure all these aspects make a good package together.

Rinked - you got me - we were looking at another house in Jan, but ultimately decided it wouldn’t work. That one also needed work, but with a harder layout to work with and not the same SW orientation at the back.

I don’t know which way the ceiling joists run but it’s a 1930s Metropolitan style house so the options for future extensions would be 1) dormer at the front to either make a larger bathroom or possibly small bedroom (but hard to combine with bathroom footprint) or one or two story at the back (eg party wall half one story, other side two story) to get bigger living room + extra bedroom. We do have some info on soil pipes etc.

Not sure if this will end up going through or not - we have a pretty clear sense of how high we would go and it sounds like others might be prepared to pay more - but nevertheless I feel like with each house we interrogate we get a better sense of what might be easier / harder when we finally find something that works for us (if we can!) So I really appreciate the house plans and the recommendation for someone whose done a similar journey with a 1930s house and your all of the advice.
Shannan M
Original Author
last month
I also have to admit I’m developing a bit of a Houzz habit and just enjoying all the creativity of different layouts and options - for example Rinked I wouldn’t have thought of opening the right hand side up from the front door like in your first layout.
rinked
last month
Making the main house work is your priority, i notice a lot of people want to buy a house and directly jump to extensions. If you have the budget, who am i to talk you out of it. But those having gone through renovations know the importance of improving the main house first, perhaps while keeping the future extension in mind. Like my own home is 72m2 plus an older 3x3 mudroom. During our first viewing we fell in love with the 1950s quirk, but it needed massive amounts of tlc, improved satefy, insulation, damp/insulation and whatnot. We did replace the connected stone storage, as it was full of mold, it now houses my laundry and a desk. But other than that, the house grew on us, we don't feel the need to extend further anymore. Back to my point: Main home made fabulous, even the smaller homes can be pleasant if the layout is made to suit your needs. The rest is just extra. The wants versus the needs thing.
Angie
last month
We were advised when buying our current house that we should live in it for six months before starting any renovation work. So glad we did that, as our pre-purchase ideas involved knocking down walls and other expensive and messy jobs, but after living here a while we found we actually really liked the layout as built, so have saved a lot of money! We are now renovating, but not knocking bits down, just improving what’s there. We love our house.

Staging / feasibility of knock through and extension

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