Kitchen Layout - comments please (avoiding a corridor feel)

5 years ago

last modified: 5 years ago

I have been spending some time planning the kitchen for our new extension and would really appreciate some comments as to whether we have reached the best solution.

There are a few requirements that we have tried to satisfy:

1 – Two single ovens side-by-side at worktop height (not built under)

2 – 90cm (or thereabouts) hob

3 – Keep the island unit clear for food preparation.

4 – Fridge/Freezer near the food preparation area and sink.

5 – A tall larder (pull-out / internal drawers / other arrangement to be decided)

6 – Worktop space for food mixer / coffee grinder / espresso machine.

This is what we have come up with:

In case it is unclear the arrangement of units in the entrance section (the old kitchen) looks like this:

Perhaps in an ideal world we would use the whole of the existing kitchen but we really want to have a separate utility/laundry room.

The run of units in the old kitchen gives us some worktop for the espresso machine while simultaneously keeping it out of the way of the main room. We even have a couple of additional cupboards for storage if we need it.

But, although this layout satisfies most of our requirements I am concerned that the entrance into the kitchen is going to feel too much like a corridor. Is this a valid concern or is there a better arrangement for this area that would make it feel more integrated into the main kitchen?

Alternatively is there a better overall arrangement? We are still at the planning stage so everything is up for grabs – even the walls between the old kitchen and the utility.

All comments gratefully received.

Andrew

Featured Answer

PRO

User

5 years ago

I think the Kitchen as described will work well enough for you and you've obviously given it great thought as to how you will use it.

One thought on your corridor. As you have a wall on the left with a door ( tidy ) and all enclosed units to the right ( also tidy ), you could lose the entrance door and have it open the same width at either end ( 1350mm ), it may feel less enclosed.

It would also have the added benefit of being able to see from what I presume is the front door and Hallway, right through past the island to your garden, right from the front, which makes your house look and feel spacious.

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Comments (32)

minipie
5 years ago
Hmm. I can see why you’ve done it this way and I agree you want a separate utility for laundry. However I would be concerned that the corridor bit would feel like a corridor (!) and also that it could become a bit of a dumping ground.

Personally I’d also want some more prep space near my hob rather than having to move prepped food from island to hob all the time.

Are you able to post the whole ground floor? Is the space just before the corridor the hallway - it looks quite generous? Also what are you planning to put in the utility aside from the laundry machines?
Daisy England
5 years ago
Island to hob though is only a turn of the body. As long as you’re not standing the other side of the island it’s close enough to the hob
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Sorry- I don’t like your plan. In my opinion the space between the sink and hob is where the work happens so you are actually a bit tight for space. I think the door from the kitchen to the playroom is a massive fail- firstly you are inviting the kids to run past the cooking area, secondly is splits the kitchen and there are safety implication for having a walkway through the kitchen, I also think it makes your kitchen plan feel disjointed. I also think that if the children are young they won’t want to be in the playroom, they will want to be where you are. If you are worried about the playroom being dark this is easily sorted with better lighting and a pale coloured floor. Alternatively make this the grown up room and the kids playroom near the front door. I also think that putting the sitting area around the corner in the extension makes it feel enclosed and a little tight because of its location. I think you have put too many stools at the island and in reality people rarely use more than 3. In my opinion better to have fewer comfortable seats that are spread out with room to eat. I also think you missed an opportunity to have a cupboard near the front door to hide coats, shoes and a vacuum cleaner. I think that if you want an extra shower it may be easier to put this off the bootroom- a bigger utility/ bootroom area may help later to keep sports equipment/ dogs/ ironing etc etc out of sight. There is a privacy argument to put it where you have but I suspect the wall you have moved to take a corner off the kitchen is a job that will require a steel.
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Andrew
Original Author
5 years ago
@minipie

This is the current arrangement. The extension, as you can see from the previous drawing is behind all of this. Does this help at all?
Jonathan
5 years ago
Alternative
Ian Matthews
5 years ago
Have you thought of putting an American fridge freezer where you have the ovens approx 950mm which would give you scope to make utility smaller by 250mm and widen the corridor . Move induction hob to island?

We put sink and Hob on our peninsular so we are not cooking facing a wall,but facing the family
Andrew
Original Author
5 years ago
@Jonathan

Thanks for your efforts. I love the bigger utility room and the worktop in the alcove the other side. However its probably not apparent on my plans but removing the other wall is not really an option for two reasons:

1) We really want to keep the existing Lounge/Dining room as a single room with a bifold or similar door to the extension. This will give us both a formal and informal entertaining area which can be combined.

2) From a practical point of view the wall running down the middle of the house is a main spine wall from which everything else is hung so it would be non-trivial (although not by any means impossible) to remove.

@ Ian Matthews

Please no, not an American fridge freezer. We hate them :-) Would much rather have integrated. We did think about putting the fridge in that location but as you point out that would mean moving the hob to the island unit which we want to avoid.
PRO
User
5 years ago
It would be interesting to see the whole of the ground floor as Minipie says. I don't mind the design, although, I don't think i'd put the ovens where you have them, and there's a huge expanse of under utilised space in the family room / living area. The trouble with open plan, is the lack of walls to place anything on. Realistically you can have a sofa, and nowhere to put even a small T.V.

The dining room is also segregated from the kitchen area, when it should be opposite the kitchen or at least feel like it's part of the same room.

I presume you probably have a window in the dining room, otherwise it's going to be very dark.

Changing the areas over would be better, so have the dining table in the kitchen

Or maybe change the plan completely, a lot of people have this type of arrangement, so you use the space in the extension to it's best advantage.
Carolina
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago
I do like your current design, as long as you have at least 30 cm counter space on the left side of the hob (as you're facing it). It's not quite clear to me whether you've planned a tall cabinet there. It's a safety issue and a practical one, space for pan handles.

Also, if you're planning to have your coffee machine in the "corridor" (which I don't think will feel like a corridor, since it's wide enough), it might be a good idea to have a small sink there too. Easy for emptying and filling the machine.
Andrew
Original Author
5 years ago
Wow, thanks for all the comments. Perhaps one thing that I didn’t make clear enough in my original question is that the extension is new, the existing kitchen will get reconfigured but the intention is that nothing else changes. This is not a whole house refurbishment – that has been done already.

So, what we will have is:

Existing lounge/dining room as a formal entertaining area. The existing French windows at the rear will be replaced with something like internal bifold doors into the extension.

Existing hall with cloakroom.

The family room will have a table and (probably four) chairs for day-to-day eating. It will have a small sofa, a comfy chair or two and a coffee table so we can sit and look out over the back garden. There is likely also to be bookcases / additional storage. There will be a TV socket on the far wall although it will probably go unused.

The wall separating the utility room from the kitchen will likely be a stud wall. It is not in place yet so could be moved if that helps with the layout but the wall the other side is firmly fixed and supporting half the house. Besides we don’t want to open up the dining room any further.

And yes Carolina, there is 600mm of worktop either side of the hob and either side of the sink, although worktop to the right of the hob and left of the sink is shared. It should be enough to keep pan handles out of the way. Another reason we really don’t want a hob on the island.

Do please keep the ideas coming.
Gloria GR
5 years ago
I wouldn't feel comfortable/ safe having both ovens without a flat surface near them. What about having the ovens in the island? One on each side.
The island wouldn't be totally flat but I've seen this solution and it looks nice
Andrew
Original Author
5 years ago
I think I might need to see a picture of that. I can't quite visualize an island unit with two oven sticking up out of it.

One possibility that we did think of would be to mount the ovens in mid-height units. I would be comfortable taking things from the oven and putting it on top but it may not suit everyone.
Jonathan
5 years ago
Those ovens are plenty close enough to work surface. If you are all all worried count the steps- I bet it is two!
You can also make getting things out of the oven easier by ordering telescopic rails which are a costed extra on some ovens.
Andrew
Original Author
5 years ago
Thanks for the reassurance. We already have telescopic rails and if we really needed to put a pan down then the open door is rated to take 25kg which is a very large turkey! Not that that should be needed with the rails.
minipie
5 years ago
Ok so you already have a nice generous hallway with a downstairs wc, and it looks like there should be coat space there too (understairs?)

I would go with Jonathan’s design but put the spine wall back in. If you are worried this will create a narrow corridor to get to the kitchen, you could create glass panels in the utility room wall (you might want to use ribbed or frosted glass to hide mess) to let light through and give a more spacious feel. Or you could create glass panels in the dining room spine wall but that’s harder if it’s load bearing.

I’d also swap the dining and sitting areas compared with Jonathan’s plan as I like to eat near the garden/in the light and watch tv in the darker central area. But that’s a personal decision.

Are you planning any skylights? I think you need one where the extension joins the dining room, else the dining room may be dark.
Jonathan
5 years ago
I think you should reconsider making half of the original reception room into your new living/ family kitchen. I accept the costs increase because of removing or creating a large aperture in the spine wall and building a stud wall to divide the current through room. I estimate this cost to be nearly £3,000 which may well be the same cost you are budgeting for the dividing doors.

The reason I think you should add the back half of the current reception to your extension room is without it you could find the room you use most being smaller than the former reception room. I think people imagine they will use both living spaces but in fact are drawn to the kitchen and garden areas. I can imagine you sat in the lovely new extension gazing through your dividing bifold doors at a space that you used to enjoy.

The enclosed plan is supposed to illustrate the living space you had versus the living space to move into.
Gloria GR
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago
And what about adding the small dining table to the island?
Clontarf | Modern Kitchen · More Info

In this way you'll have more space in the family room for the sofa and relax area.

I would align the oven wall with the other wall (as in Jonathan's last plan) and will try to put the fridge by the ovens (one oven on top of the other and then the fridge). In this way you'll have more countertop and the kitchen wall can be nicer to look at.

I would design the corridor with all the cupboards at the same level and without countertop and without coffee machine on sight. And yes, you'll have a long corridor. But one with a lean design that it is easier to transform into something interesting with decoration (painting, mirrors, frosted glass doors, ...) and lighting
Jonathan
5 years ago
I agree with Gloria that dining table cantilevered off the island would look great
Andrew
Original Author
5 years ago
The existing lounge / dining room is 24’ x 14’. It is a large room and we like it. It is used for formal entertaining, watching films on a big(ish) screen and family dinners.

The kitchen is 27’ x 17’ and as well as the kitchen area we want a table like we have now in the kitchen and a small sofa. The initial plan had a table as part of the island but we decided we would rather have a separate one. Might still have a couple of bar stools on the island though. It will be used for breakfast, light lunches and simple evening meals. Doing art. Somewhere to sit and drink coffee with friends or a G+T in the evening while talking to whoever is cooking.

Both rooms can be opened into one for parties etc. This is an arrangement that suits us. Likewise the main kitchen is the best arrangement that we can find. We initially thought that the fridge would fit next to the ovens but found that they would not if we wanted a reasonable width to the entrance. Two ovens at worktop height was considered more important than keeping the fridge out of the main run of units, especially as it current position is convenient when just wanting to grab milk when boiling the kettle.

The old kitchen as you come into the extension is a good place to put coats since there is not storage under the stairs, additional storage and a worktop for what we term ‘static electrical equipment’, things like food mixer and coffee machine that we do not want to take out of a cupboard every time we use them. This seems to be a good place since it hides them from the seating area.

The dilemma that I have is that I worry that the entrance to the kitchen through the old kitchen is going to feel to much like a corridor. The arrangement of units that I have suits the functionality that we need but the question that I was seeking help on was whether there might be a better arrangement that would minimise the feeling of having to walk down a corridor to get to the extension.

I have been very impressed by the responses and the keenness of Houzers to help.
janet_allen8
5 years ago
Hi Andrew, been hesitant to comment as didn’t want to critique unnecessarily ... the main concern I’d have if this was my kitchen isn’t the corridor effect. I think that’s fine, but it is the positioning of oven/ff/sink & larder ... I’d hate the fact that the larder and ff are at opposite ends of the room effectively, not very efficient when prepping big meals. I’d be much more inclined to house them side by side where you currently have the ovens and put the ovens where you currently have the spices/trays/hob ... then move hob along if that makes sense ... fly in the ointment here is that I would (even understanding your reticence) put the sink and dishwasher in the island. After all lots of fresh food needs washing when prepping & saves one constantly turning from one counter top to the other. Your whole working triangle is then much smaller ... my personal bug bear is no dedicated space in my kitchen for the bins (apart from the wrong side of our island) & I cant tell you how frustrating that’s become over the years ... makes me realise the importance of the working triangle! it’s an exciting project and can understand the nervousness in trying to ensure you’ve got it right.
Andrew thanked janet_allen8
Andrew
Original Author
5 years ago
Janet,

Thank you for your suggestions. Is this the kind of thing that you were thinking of?

I have had to put the ovens at the other end of the run because there is a soil pipe on the left – which is why the tray cupboard is only 450mm deep. They would also obscure views of the window, which, although not obvious from the drawing, is full height.

The other window will need to move but that won’t be a problem but I think the hob may need to move as well because there will be and extractor above it. Although the 300-900-900-900 arrangement is nice it will probably have to be 300-600-900-1200 or even leave the hob where it was in plan 1 and have 300-300-900-600-900. If that makes sense.

I did try putting the sink in the middle of the island but it didn’t seem to leave enough space on either side for preparation so moved it slightly to the left. That gives more prep area to the right.
janet_allen8
5 years ago
Hi Andrew, sorry missed your reply. I wondered why you had marked the units for trays & spices, makes sense now with soil pipe & depth of cupboards! ... yes, what you’ve shown on new plan was what I was suggesting apart from placement of ovens ... I think the offset sink will work well, will upload a pic for you to see. I was trying to keep your triangle as small as possible but as you need to utilise the space nearest the back wall, it’s more personal preference whether this space is taken with ovens as shown in your most recent plan ... or you revert to original plan, keeping the ovens where they were and simply moving the larder to sit beside the ff. All the storage in entrance to kitchen can then accommodate the not so frequently used items. Here’s a pic of an island with sink unit.
Gloria GR
5 years ago
You could use 60 cm on the right (near windows) for the two ovens. That would mean putting the ovens one on top of the other. And on the left (near the larder) you could use 60 cm for the fridge/ freezer. In this way you'll get a symmetrical design, you'll free your window and keep a good work triangle. Something as:

Take into account that you get less space inside an integrated/ paneled fridge and freezer than with non paneled ones. One solution is to install in the kitchen a paneled device (fridge and freezer or only fridge) and have another device inside the utility room (an additional small fridge or a freezer or ...)
Gloria GR
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago
Sorry. My solution is not possible because it will force you to change the 30 cm you've kept for trays and turn it into a tall cupboard and so the the hob will get in the middle of the window.... . That's the problem of writing without a previous design ....

You may try to work on the solution posted by Jonathan: the island with a small sink for preparation purposes, the wall with big sink, hob and dishwasher and without tall elements (no oven or fridge) and the tall elements in the wall of the utilitty (2 ovens in 60 cm and fridge) and the corridor (larder). That can look nice, you can have lots of countertop for preparation and the work triangle can work fine
Andrew
Original Author
5 years ago
Reading all of this, and in particular redrawing the plans, I am beginning to feel maybe I am guilty of misleading with respect to what goes where. Probably by labeling with the names given by the kitchen supplier. It didn’t seem to matter when I was concerned about rows of units creating a corridor.

On my original plan the island unit was shown with six pan drawers, three of them will probably be used for food storage; for things like rice, the three types of flour, the four types of sugar and the pasta that we use regularly. Also things like tinned foods and probably breakfast cereal, tea and coffee.

The larder on the other hand will likely be used for storing things like multi-packs of tins and the large packets of rice that get decanted to a container as needed instead of going out to by another small bag.

So, looking at all this perhaps my original design does cover all the bases as far as the working triangle / functional areas goes. What does anyone think? Still wondering about that corridor though.
janet_allen8
5 years ago
Hi Andrew, I do think you have put a lot of thought into this ... Houzz is great for discussion (& help) but love that it can help reinforce your ideas ... so go with your gut feel! It will a fabulous space.
Andrew thanked janet_allen8
Andrew
Original Author
5 years ago
@MATD – the architect did suggest leaving everything open plan to the hall but we rejected it because we didn’t want kitchen smells permeated the whole house (maybe not an issue) and while probably complying with fire regulations I feel more comfortable having everything closed off from the hall/landing at night.

We have also considered a Crittall style glass panel/door. I think that could look stunning but I have seen comments that put the cost at around £9k! Also, while being able to see right through from the front door would be an amazing feature it may be less so if the visitor is unexpected and the kitchen is in a mess|. The jury is still out on that one.

@janet – Thank-you. I have only just discovered the Houzz forums and love the ideas that people come up with. It is a breath of fresh air compared to so many forums which have descended into personal abuse and arguments over Brexit.
PRO
User
5 years ago
A single internal crittal door roughly from £600, double doors from £1200 and a whole wall for around £2.5--3K - External doors are more expensive. You haven't got room for doubles as the width is only 1350mm . You could have a panel and a door. or possibly two small panels and a door. Hear what your saying about smells and mess though!
Andrew
Original Author
5 years ago
That sounds like a more reasonable price. I was thinking of cutting the right hand wall back to 400mm - since there are only 300mm deep units behind it. That would leave a 1600mm wide opening, say four panes wide 300 | 500 | 500 | 300 with the middle 2 x 500 being the door. Full height screen being five panes. Of that, maybe the door maybe just four.

I guess that price is not from Crittall themselves. Do you have supplier in mind or would any local metal fabricator do it?
PRO
User
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago
You could go up to 1600. I think you'd be better off with a door and two panels though. having to open two five hundred doors just to go through would eventually get on your nerves I feel and one door is better. I've put in here, two 375 panels and an 850 door.

I noticed when i was doing the plan that the window in the Utility won't fit, the depth of cupboards will over shoot it, they are deep cupboards as one is covering a boiler. Therefore, i removed it.

Just as a personal preference I think the unit that juts out might get hit a lot and i'd consider having the same depth units all along the long wall, it makes for bigger storage and aids the look of walking through to a kitchen instead of it being part of the kitchen. You would however need to change the crittal door to one panel and one door.
Andrew
Original Author
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago
I wasn't so much thinking of two 500mm doors but rather a single 1000m wide door with two 500mm panes across its width. The door could be a normal height of even full height. Excuse the poor quality drawing but something like this:

The combination of 300mm and 600mm deep units was chosen to try to minimise the feeling of this section being a corridor and because I had seen this kitchen and really liked the style. I don't know if we would go for wood-grain but it was the two interlocking L shapes that appealed.
PRO
User
5 years ago
I have to say, that is very stylish. I think you're right actually, the set back units help create a feeling of space, and I really like the crittal door. Can't wait to see the finished project.